Studio mic equivalent of the ipad mic

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CrazySynthMan

@Dawdles said:
Forgot to say I'm on iPad 2017 9.7". Dunno how much mics vary across models?

I don't know which commercial mic would be identical or comparable to an iPad mic, but I do know that different iPad models have the mics in different locations.

And there's more than 1 mic. I believe that there's also a noise cancelling mic in addition to the regular mic on the iPad. And for iPhones, I don't know if this is the case for all iPhone models, but some iPhones have 3 mics on them, front top mic, front bottom mic and rear mic.

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CrazySynthMan

@Dawdles said:
@CrazySynthMan Thanks for info. Dang. That's not gonna make it easy to track down something that sounds the same Might not even be possible....dont wanna have to setup multiple mics etc just to get that mic flavour. Guess I'll just monitor/track through iPad and see how that works out...
Cheers

Yeah, I know what you mean. Might be difficult to emulate the same sound. I don't know exactly which mics are active or used when recording under certain apps.

I also found out that something like an iPhone 7 has 4 mics. I didn't know that myself, until I briefly looked into this topic just now.

Telefunky

the mic 'capsules' in an iDevice are of the MEMS type, sordid details following...
https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4430264/Basic-principles-of-MEMS-microphones-
Due to their digital output there's always specific processing included within the receiving circuit, so you're probably best off with your choosen path of just using what you have.
Imh ears it's a 'characterless' microphone, opposed to those 'real capsule' types like the (say) SM57 dynamic or Neumann TLM condensor mics.
Those interact a lot more with the airstream alteration by the mic's housing.
Each approach has it's own advantages/disadvantages, there's no best way.

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CrazySynthMan

@Dawdles said:

Either way, i'd love a dedicated mic that nailed the same sound!

I've never recorded vocals using the iPad mic before, but if that's the sound that you like, then why not just set up the iPad on a mic stand and use your iPad both as the mic and to record onto?

u0421793

I’m quite willing to believe that technologically well designed contemporary high-end phones exceed the standard and capability of conventional handheld mics that we’ve grown up being used to using in professional recording circumstances such as stage and studio.

1nsomniak

@u0421793 said:
I’m quite willing to believe that technologically well designed contemporary high-end phones exceed the standard and capability of conventional handheld mics that we’ve grown up being used to using in professional recording circumstances such as stage and studio.

Perhaps with the caveat that they are designed specifically for voice frequencies. Id expect them to be much less appropriate outside of that range.

McDtracy

This sounds like a job for an FX developer... The iPad Mic Modeler.
Input a $5,000 studio mic and make it sound like you used an iPad in a Motel room
(random ice machine effect optional).

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CracklePot

If the mic has remained the same type throughout the iPads evolution, but just different in position and quantity, you could probably just get an older, used iPad or iPhone just to use as your mic, and leave it setup as so. Older iDevices are pretty cheap, not much more than a decent mic, maybe even cheaper. Also consider it could have a scratched up screen or other wear, and it wouldn’t really effect its functionality if just used as a mic.

Like it was previously mentioned, the processing of the mic signal by the iDevice hardware may actually be the source of the desirable sound. If that is the case, seems that only an iDevice would be able to deliver this sound, at least for now.

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Telefunky

it's not unusual that a mic fits a task for which it wasn't intended in the first place very well.
The vintage AKG D12 'electric razor shaped' kick drum mics (as they are used today) was released as the next big thing for vocals in the 50s.

The mic element and processing in 3g or 4 iPhones is different from the current design.
There was a single transducer and not the 3 element processing, so that may give you a good indicator which phone comes closest, probably the iPhone SE is a good candidate.

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Telefunky

AKG built great mics that time, I have a D224, D1000, and several OEMs containing their capsules.
This is a nice site for mic tech reference: http://www.coutant.org/akgd12e/

Janosax

I have surprisingly good recording my tenor sax outside with iPhone 7 Plus internal mic. Low register is not as rich as large capsule condenser mics, but results are usable. As sax is a loud instrument, it’s clipping a little bit. But using AUM measurement mode, as recording in 32 bits minimize issues. I was thinking about buying a Zoom iPhone mic for outside recording purposes, but perhaps will get light mic stand and mic stand iPhone holder instead. Or I will made a custom sax iPhone holder. Using my Shure SE215 IEM and I’m good.

Janosax

Here is tenor outside sax recording made with iPhone 7 Plus internal mic, in AUM with measurement mode and 32 bits recording.

Telefunky

cool track
The mic character doesn't fully reveal due to the dense fx processing, but sounds good.
With a sax you have much better positioning options than with vocals, where optimal adressing needs tilting the screen away from the singer. At least if one wants to minimize room sound coloring.

Janosax

@Telefunky said:
cool track
The mic character doesn't fully reveal due to the dense fx processing, but sounds good.
With a sax you have much better positioning options than with vocals, where optimal adressing needs tilting the screen away from the singer. At least if one wants to minimize room sound coloring.

Thanks you. I used DDMF 6144, NYC and Dubstation 2. I had to EQing accurately for good results. For sure that doesn’t show mic personality that much, but illustrate that it can sits correctly in a mix, which is interesting if not surprising.

I’ve found mic placement really critical with this mic, 10 cm from sax bell was spot on for good presence in the mix, more it was boomy-boxy. It was recorded it open field with iPhone on the car.

Also, internal mic has no gain setting, so it can clip. This is where a Zoom iq6 with its 130 dB spl max pressure can be interesting, but it’s a bit off topic.

Telefunky

the clipping is interesting - I was under the impression that the gain is controlled digitally.
(at least it can be adjusted which is reflected in the noise figure).
The latter was most surprising, as a normalized, rather silent source had just a -60dB noisefloor, which is really good for such a small mic.
But I have no high pressure sources like a sax or kick drum at hand.

Janosax

I’m don’t know those things really well. But in higher sax register or while playing loud, AUM mic input meter become red, can’t remember the values. I don’t know if clipping here occurs before AD or if it’s post conversion with the way iOS manage that mic gain. It seems to me that gain is stable in measurement mode, but I can be wrong. I’ve recorded in 32 bits as it’s supposed to avoid clipping issues.

ksound

I’ve had some good results from conference call mics. They seem to be what the iPhone mic is going for (multiple mics designed to optimize the voice and minimize background noise), so you might get similar results.

Telefunky

@Janosax in AUM's setting the default mic gain seems to be 75% (whatever that means...)
Did you try to reduce it to 50 or even 25% ?

But you kind of misunderstand the higher bit resolution - it's effectively increasing details on the lower part of the scale, NOT the upper end.
(removed the confusing nonsense about gain)

I'd use 24bit for simplicity - 32bit is the same, just written in floating point format.
Since most apps use floating point data internally, it simply moves the conversion process to a point where it may be less disturbing (if you import a dozen files).
But practically all converters operate in a linear mode and don't ever reach a 'real' 24bit resolution. (that would require laboratory conditions)

mrufino1

@Janosax.

Also, internal mic has no gain setting, so it can clip. This is where a Zoom iq6 with its 130 dB spl max pressure can be interesting, but it’s a bit off topic.

It does have a gain setting (to lower gain) if you use AudioShare. That combined with measurement mode can make some pretty decent recordings.

Janosax

@Telefunky said:
@Janosax in AUM's setting the default mic gain seems to be 75% (whatever that means...)
Did you try to reduce it to 50 or even 25% ?

But you kind of misunderstand the higher bit resolution - it's effectively increasing details on the lower part of the scale, NOT the upper end.
(removed the confusing nonsense about gain)

I'd use 24bit for simplicity - 32bit is the same, just written in floating point format.
Since most apps use floating point data internally, it simply moves the conversion process to a point where it may be less disturbing (if you import a dozen files).
But practically all converters operate in a linear mode and don't ever reach a 'real' 24bit resolution. (that would require laboratory conditions)

Thanks very much for clarification

Unfortunately, AUM doesn’t allow internal mic gain modification.

(https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/km/97twct8ra4a0.png "")

@mrufino1 said:

@Janosax.

Also, internal mic has no gain setting, so it can clip. This is where a Zoom iq6 with its 130 dB spl max pressure can be interesting, but it’s a bit off topic.

It does have a gain setting (to lower gain) if you use AudioShare. That combined with measurement mode can make some pretty decent recordings.

Thanks for that tip!!! I ask myself now how I can record sax with AudioShare and instrumental from loopy or something else all at the same time and in sync. Not sure it’s possible.

mrufino1

@Janosax said:

@Telefunky said:
@Janosax in AUM's setting the default mic gain seems to be 75% (whatever that means...)
Did you try to reduce it to 50 or even 25% ?

But you kind of misunderstand the higher bit resolution - it's effectively increasing details on the lower part of the scale, NOT the upper end.
(removed the confusing nonsense about gain)

I'd use 24bit for simplicity - 32bit is the same, just written in floating point format.
Since most apps use floating point data internally, it simply moves the conversion process to a point where it may be less disturbing (if you import a dozen files).
But practically all converters operate in a linear mode and don't ever reach a 'real' 24bit resolution. (that would require laboratory conditions)

Thanks very much for clarification

Unfortunately, AUM doesn’t allow internal mic gain modification.

(https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/km/97twct8ra4a0.png "")

@mrufino1 said:

@Janosax.

Also, internal mic has no gain setting, so it can clip. This is where a Zoom iq6 with its 130 dB spl max pressure can be interesting, but it’s a bit off topic.

It does have a gain setting (to lower gain) if you use AudioShare. That combined with measurement mode can make some pretty decent recordings.

Thanks for that tip!!! I ask myself now how I can record sax with AudioShare and instrumental from loopy or something else all at the same time and in sync. Not sure it’s possible.

I don’t have AUM but I remember reading that it can output to multiple instances of audioshare at the same time? Maybe there’s a way to use them together.

Processaurus

To the original poster, have you used a "match eq"? There's one built in to Logic, and there are probably vst ones for other DAWs. It is an eq that analyzes an audio source (template), and then a second audio source(destination), and computes an eq curve, to make the second source sound like the first. It is extremely good at eqing one mic, to sound like another mic.

To make your curve you can set up a monitor in a dry-ish space and blast some pink noise at the two mics. Then run the match eq to compute the eq curve to make the second mic sound like the first. You only have to do it once, then save the curve as a preset. I did it when I borrowed a buddy's U87, to make my inexpensive condenser mic sound more like it. When I was done, the neuman still sounded better, but the difference was much subtler between the two.