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Hardware synth
I just sold a bass so that gives me an opportunity to buy a hardware synth if I decide to do so. I'm wondering, if you own any of these or more than one, if you have any suggestions as to what might be best. I want to mainly use it for synth bass. So, I'm looking at microbrute, miniature, behringer model d, novation bass station 2, and monologue. Possibly moog minitaur, or if I decide against any other equipment, then sub phatty.
I'm also looking at possibly getting some 500 series preamp kits and a rack, but not totally decided yet. Of course, I want to just get all of it, but there are some limits....
Comments
Keep in mind that this is personal opinion with a strong preference for the classic Moog sound, ESPECIALLY for just bass: I’d immediately eliminate the Korg Monologue. Korg basses never get there for me; they’re lacking a true thump and the sawtooths with an open filter don’t have enough bite for me.
I have no experience with the others, but I have a hard time recommending anything Behringer for their copycat tendencies (I can admit that it sounds pretty solid though).
I vote Minitaur or SubPhatty, or even a Grandmother. But that’s due to my bias...I don’t have complete info or hands-on experience with the Brute or the Novation. But again, skip the Monologue.
Should it be able to save patches?
I really like my Bass Station 2 for bass and lead sounds and you can get them pretty cheap now, but I wish it didn’t have any keys on it. It’s nice that they are full size keys, and it’s perfect for testing patches. For me, even for running bass lines 37 key minimum especially two handed. It’s incredibly easy to program and it’s DCO so the rest is totally analog but you know that it will be in tune when you turn it on!! You can save patches too! Also, BS2 is a nice 8bit MIDI controller (256 values vs 128 standard) for your iOS Moog apps. I kind of usually think of it as a requirement to have a delay pedal with mine, but not if I’m using it for a bass line. Microbrute and Behringer Model D you won’t have saved patches if you care. Microbrute and I think monologue have mini keys if you care.
I have an ipad + mpc + slim phatty + virus c setup(+ some 80 crap electric organ and used to have minibrute and yamaha cs6x) and have found out few things that i personally want from my setup. If you want a smaller setup(not planning of buying tons of analog synths), if you want analog digital controls if a huge thing and something you should think about. They allow you to automate(and draw automation from bm3 at least) the synth from your daw, which is a huge thing and allows your synth to save presets(and possibly recall them along with your session, havent loked what ios daws can send PC messages because i do this from my mpc). This means that you dont need to sample everything every time you come up with something and lose the patch if you touch your synth, meaning that if you want to use some bass sound in chorus that you made for verse few days ago, it might not be easy to get the same sound. So decide if you want to sample everything all the time or not.
Another important thing if you want analog is to think what you want from it. And remember that you have tons of support from ios side. Model D app for example is not too far from behringer d. Nice thing about digital is that you can usually run multiple patches at the same time, but even with the high end synths, the difference is not very big to good ios synths, on the sounds side of things its just more about getting the hardware synths D/A converters and amps character. Ofc you also get knobs and possibly keys, which is nice as well. But lets just say that when i bought microtera, i found those few missing sounds i got from virus, but not from other ios synths and have decided to sell it and just use ios synths with slim phatty and maybe get some semi modular or small modular to sample stuff from, maybe dfam so that i can get drum samples from it and make other sounds with.
If you have a soundcard with extra ins/outs, you could also consider on getting analog filter and fxs, then running ios synths through them, they will sound more analog. I have dreamed of eurorack (mostly just)fx rack for ios synths
Good thoughts so far, thank you!
For amazing synth bass, Minitaur, without a doubt. BS2 as a reasonably close second because of the sound/flexibility but really, if you know you what you really want is a bass synth, I wouldn't even mess with the others. Amazing machine.
FWIW, I think the Monologue makes fantastic bass but it doesn't really do the good side of, I dunno the word, flubby(?) bass. Or, maybe in better terms: It does great bass sounds in 20 different interesting ways but I would not want to start a dub band with the ML as the sole bass sound.
Decide what features are really important to you to narrow down the choices then crucially go and try them in person.
That’s where the subtle but real differences between hardware / vst / iOS etc show.
With the advancements in soft synths and their sound quality, and the ease of sequencing them, I think the main reason to use a hardware synth is they are performance instruments- something to be hands on with, improvise with.
A great first budget analog is the Korg MS-20, the sound is so bouncy and rich, the HP and LP filters in series are musical, and sounds get outrageously weird when you get up on the patch bay.
Agree with much of that, the performance aspect is a large one. Software is so good now that on recordings or in gig situations I don’t believe most could tell the difference and I include myself in that. However playing software vs hardware live close up and personal there is still an organic alive feel to the hardware (for want of a better description) which the software does not have. I have a Boog, I have the Moog Model D app. I use the app as a sketch book for the Boog. The app sounds great, the Boog sounds better. Matters to some not others. This is why I strongly recommend trying these synths in person.
Thinking about it the Roland SE-02 might be a great bit of hardware to consider - has a Moog flavour and very versatile.
The main difference between original vintage synths and their miniature clones is their handling.
Size does matter in this context - and it's the main factor driving the price.
(just watch a video of someone dialing a sound on a real model D...)
Then comes the keyboard mechanics and it's response - again that's something to observe in videos about vintage gear and it can make a huge difference in live performance.
I love my Bass Station 2...not only does it sound amazing but the controls are nicely laid out and easy to use as well. The one thing to note is that some functions are on the keys themselves via a function button, but this takes very little time to get used to.
The Behringer Model D is very close to a real Model D which means both great bass and lead sounds.
The fact that it doesn't support presets is more or less a guarantee that you will learn to really use this thing
Bass Station II is the only monophonic (bass) synth I have. It really is a beast, and very versatile in what sounds you can create. More so then your Moogs (ie Sub37 with siblings). There are two analog filters inside, one is a multi mode filter, one is geared towards classic acid type of sounds. Plenty of overdrive with a post filter distortion circuit. Also osc<->osc modulation etc.
The main drawback with the BS2 is that both oscillators share the same oscillator section/controls. So when you’ve set up one oscillator, you flick a switch and use the same controls for the other oscillator. This can become tedious if you need to jump back n forth between the oscillators (there are however two arrows on the LCD helping you dial the knobs back the original value for a knob/parameter). That said, it is still a fun synth to tweak, once you get past the shared controls thing.
It’s also a wicked effects unit, you can pass a (mono) signal thru the entire signal flow of the synth.
I have a microbrute and Roland sh01a. I find the microbrute a bit Nasily sounding and fairly limited in its sound pallete. The sh01a on the other hand is very, very versatile. bass, lead and with it being 4 note polyphonic even pads... the little Roland has it covered.
Peeps go on about the small form factor .. if you've used iPad apps you'll have no trouble with the sh01a.
Thanks for all of the suggestions. After thinking about it I decided to go another route and went with a 500 series lunchbox and some mic preamp kits. The point about the sound of model d was well taken and more than enough for my needs right now
I like the Monologue. Surprisingly decent build quality for the cheap price, can be battery powered, etc. Of course everyone has different tastes. I like it as my basic IOS keyboard controller.
Next hardware synth will probably be a Dreadbox-Polyend Medusa. It has a grid-style keyboard, with individual pads sending X, Y, and Z parameters individually.
can't lose, bass is covered but there's more...
Yes, the Behringer Model D has been mentioned already.
So I decided not to get a hardware synth, wound up getting a 500 series rack, 4 preamps, and 2 compressors. That's was a good decision.
Then I got paid for a sound gig I had forgotten about....my microbrute arrives tomorrow, just in time to take it to maine for my annual shutterwax sessions next week....
shutterwax sessions
I dunno what this is but just so you know, that microbrute is indeed quite micro. Those keys are small. But man, what a sound! Have fun.
Shutterwax.bandcamp.com
My original project, I've posted a few songs on here over the years. First album (dig me a well) was mixed entirely in auria, the two songs I mixed on the second album, Disappointment and Hurricane, were also mixed that way. I don't mix in auria anymore as I use harrison mixbus, but I wouldn't have ever finished mixing those things if it weren't for auria on iPad.
And yes, I think I've seen every microbrute youtube video at this point and I'm looking forward to using this synth. Mini keys are no problem, I have no keyboard technique to speak of and arthritis has me playing a 25" scale bass because my hands hurt with stretching required to play anything larger, so mini keys will work!
Very informative posts, everyone! I'm in the same boat, planning to buy my first hardware synth next month. I upgraded my interface last week so I'd be ready for DC coupled hybrid eurorack action and plenty of IO + sends/returns. (Motu Ultralite mk4).
I've been dreaming about euro for so long that it's inevitable to happen for me soon as well, so my first synth has to be something with a decent patch bay. I'm currently trying to decide between Microbrute 2S or "Boog" + Neutron. Never had a chance to play a HW synth in person and no opportunities close by, so going to have to take a leap of faith on whatever I go with.
The volca line never really appealed to me, as it seems like something that I wouldn't use once I collected higher end gear, but the similar form factor IK Multimedia UNO and the Modal Electronics Skulpt synth both seem good enough to round out a decent collection. Not completely sold on the UNO yet but what I've heard of the skulpt virtual analog has me mightily impressed. Seems like it'd be a nice companion with an OP-1, whose synth sounds seem a little flat to me but recording/sampling and sequencing features more than make up for it & the modal seems like it'd more than make up for OP's weakness.
Also thinking about picking up a Roland JV-1080 and perhaps another (currently cheap) 1990s digital synth module. After hearing Woody (piano shack) do a comparison of the 1080 vs a modern Integra, I actually thought the old one sounded better on some presets. Only $200 for what I figure would be great rompler for jamming & recording., with a lovely sound character that can't quite be reproduced in box.
Re: Volca synths ... I stayed away from them thinking the same as you. They just seemed, I dunno, not serious, or too cute to be useful in the long run.
Well, now I have 4 of them and I really dig them. I’d recommend Marc Doty’s reviews as that’s what opened my ears and eyes to their potential.
Sheesh, I guess I’m a Korg fan.
My experience with Korg is limited to their iOS synth emulations.--definitely among my favorite soft synths. Maybe the volca's deserve a closer look. You described exactly my first impression of them though., which is probably me unfairly "judging a book by its cover."
Maybe I'll get lucky and get to demo one in person in the near future. Unfortunately the music stores around here primarily deal in guitars/drums, not really any synths to speak of . (I live fairly close to Kurt Cobain's original stomping grounds, where rock is still king) I probably should take a day trip to Seattle soon to really get a proper HW intro.
They seem to hold their value pretty well. I bought all used except one. So, if you get one of the Volcai and don’t dig it you won’t be out too much (then again auction fees are climbing ugh).
I have Volca Bass, Keys, Beats and Kick. I love them. Of course, have yet to use them in a track.
When ios 11 made my iPad air suddenly feel very old (it didn't through ios10) my "appoholism" was cured quickly. In fact, the only music apps I've purchased sinAce model d are the brute lfo (which was free) and midibrute, in anticipation of receiving the microbrute. Not as excited to "invest" in software anymore. I don't have it in my mind to resell the microbrute but if I ever decided to I could do so.
Another vote for bass station 2, used prices are very low on these for reasons unknown...
Bass station 2. Great synth great price. Fuck Korg with their lousy build quality and terrible customer services..
Interesting, I have several Korg synths and have not experienced lousy build quality yet. What synths do you have?
BS2 is a very good buy, IMO.