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AYSHEH AT LAST/ Turkish Jazz!
Hi, the latest after a bit of a struggle with the bass and drum groove.
Audiobus, Cubasis, Modified Sensual Sax, modified micrologue bass, two ambient tracks of Thor.
I live in Istanbul with the call of the Muzzeins from the mosques five times a day. It gets into your blood.
There really is no real Turkish Jazz. The Jazz players here only seem to play in western mode. But the oriental scales and microtonal instruments are so inclined to improvisation and beautiful melodic lines.
I am primarily a jazzer. Here I feel the real Sultans of Swing!
Comments
How could I forget.... Luis Martinez' Soft Drummer, jam intensity and swing to the max!
How about some 4+5/8 Turkish folk/bebop fusion music?
Well, I have Mid East drummer. I'll probably play in four on top of those complexities. We do what we can!
I just love Turkish 4+5 rhythms! My Gypsies of Turkey album every other song is in it. Plus I’ve heard some Erdal Erzincan doing some old folk tunes in it. I own a Saz but I left it behind when moving across the US. I think a Turkish 4+5 would work really well with jazz.
Hi Michael
Have you heard of our synth apps SynthMaster Player and SynthMaster One ?
Would love to meet with you in person when I am in Istanbul the next time. We're located in Ankara. Maybe you know my cousin Kaan Bıyıkoğlu? He's a jazz pianist in Istanbul
I'll check YouTube for those two. Here's a version of the same with no drums. The Oriental feel is stronger and more haunting IMO.
Just now looking at this post with the info about the track. Seems I guessed correctly on the Turkish influence, eh?
I will check out those two. Saz,, huh? And you said you just played keyboards and drums.
Right, but I’ll try to play anything. I have a sloppy recording of me playing Saz and Tar(frame drum) somewhere. I tried a Ney flute for a while. I managed to almost get an octave at my peak! End blown flutes aren’t easy.
I thought a tar was a forerunner of the guitar? Do you know of Mark Eliahu? Great Israeli kemanche playet (check YouTube!) he plays with his father who plays the tar.
Here's a more atmospheric and oriental version of this posted piece. Which do you prefer?
Yes @kv331audio_bulent ! I will PM you.
As I said I like the sax playing, nicely done Mike!!! There is some tension and it’s « only » a virtual instrument. I wasn’t disturbed by initial bass/drum drifting, I like bass kind of rubato feeling in your track. I still prefer first version, perhaps can you post it here for comparison?
Damn! @Janosax. Now I am really confused. Maybe this is the best. Then again, maybe they are all just different. This one has a really thick sax sound from chorus and overdrive. The bass is pretty pure and the drums throughout. The ambient Thor is plays a bigger role that gets lost in the later iterations,
I just want people to like me! ( just kidding, you can hate me just so long as "me" is in the sentence...just kidding again. I don't even exist!) But this music does exist! (I think)
Very cool!
the middle version (labeled 'with reverb') is ok, but the other two suffer from severe distortion.
Probably the instrument is layered, thus adds up and overdrives the mixbus.
(impression based on reverb version, which is clearly a single instrument playing)
I don't know how Cubase handles this, but if you use 2 (similiar) parts at full scale, you have to lower each one to half of it's original level.
There are also background sounds to be considered in the same way: if the instrument is full level, you have to reduce it to 70% if you want 30% of background.
The general rule is simple: with all stuff playing, you cannot exceed 100% - or it will sound ear-piercingly distorted. Digital distortion is the nasty kind.
Thanks @Telefunky. I used a lot of overdrive that obviously creates distortion. I wanted to get something thick and shrill at the same time which is characteristic of some middle eastern music. I tried to take the edge off with some EQ but never really got the exact shrill/ not shrill feeling I was searching for, at the advice of @McDTracy I took off the overdrive and added reverb.
I like them both, but in terms of sound that pleases rather than sets your teeth on edge, of course your observation is correct.
"To the beginner the possibilities are many. To the point expert they are few". This seems to be a good case for that.
I really like this Mike. I dig the vibe of it - it is haunting and it sort of pangs the heart.
I prefer version two, as the rhythm drift did bother me a bit. A bit too loose for me. It is a tough thing to accomplish in that we all want tight timing AND a human looseness to the feel. Sometimes quantizing can ruin it or sometimes it can make it. It's always a judgement call. My hat is off to you for doing your own thing and charting your own course. Huzzah!
Thanks so much @kinkujin" you put it really well, "tight timing and human looseness" I get it as each has a great attraction to the human ear. I come from a very forgiving jazz background based on the teachings of Lennie Tristano and Connie Crothers. Each could go anywhere bending the time, but underneath was an unshakable metronomic feeling for the rhythm. So the looseness could be there but the foundation was really tight. I wish I could say I had thT same ability.
If you care to hear my jazz roots you can go to newartistsrecords.com and search Michael Levy, but be sure to use Safari to access the free tracks on most of my cds on the site. Connie Crothers, my late great teacher is there as well. She was a jazz phenomenon as was Lennie. Let me know your thoughts, if you care to. It s my aim to combine this jazz feeling with the electronic genres I am exploring in iOS ( if possible!).
Thanks again for the insight and comment,
Mike - will certainly do this! I am a jazz drummer by training and experience. If you'd like to ever collab I'd be happy to send you some tracks - it's on my list and it would give me the excuse to break out the mics and learn how to record drums, finally! Although I have zero experience with Turkish music or drumming. Could be an adventure.
-k
I will PM you @kinkujin. Thanks for the kind offer. You can check out Both Connie and Lennie on YouTube. By the way, New Artists Records was founded by the great Max Roach and Connie Crothers. Check out Swish when you get to the site.
Just for completions sake here is a remix with the sax sounding more natural. Also removed the drums which some felt problematic. It really becomes something else in my opinion, but I like both......@Telef
@Telefunky please listen to the above. I promise not to hurt your ears!🙏
well, you asked... but I'm probably the wrong one to answer
In musical context I don't get the background aligned with the lead instrument at all.
I'm not a fan of faking acoustic instruments in a prominent mix position, unless typical articulations and play modes are supported, so one effectively can't tell the difference anymore.
(examples are Pianoteq, Sax Brothers, Trillian for bass etc and as an exception the Mellotron which I consider more a phrase/snippets recorder than an instrument)
But of course anyone may enjoy whatever he/she likes (I've had an Alto as a schoolboy, which I never mastered ...)
The rest is a matter of taste: on solo instruments that kind reverb is not my favourite color and the movement in virtual space (likely intended to make something 'happen') feels irritating, but I'm generally a bit over-sensitive with pan and phase.
By pure chance I made a short test featuring a sax mini-section not too long ago, so you have a sound example plus the opportunity to bash me back.
(I just try to be honest, but this sometimes makes me feel like a d....)
Never mind, the main thing is that you enjoyed your stuff.
Yes @Telefunky I guess my stuff will always irritate you. Your clip was a bit short but was interesting. Not much to bash about it. Very clear, undistorted sound. Liked the choral add on. Good honking on the horn. I'd like to hear more.
@LinearLineman @Telefunky
At least I got used to eastern scales and polyphony.
Turkish Jazz demands ear for intervals and tunings our western ears find harsh. I have training from raga and playing the sitar. I loved George Harrison you see
I find Aysheh beautiful and can’t get it out of my head after hearing it. The latest iteration was probably the best.
I have no problems with oriental scales and my comment was not about the melody.
It's more about the way to 'handle' an acoustic instrument with limited controls.
(which may be influenced by personal experience - for most listeners that doesn't apply and they just hear a recorded sax. I often react the same on bass lines played on a sampler)
The more you try to be 'real', the more the missing becomes obvious.
I'm a big fan of the Albanian/Macedonian way to abuse a tiny Casio CZ101 keyboard as a substitute for traditional instruments. Usually results in a very artificial sound, but function and expression match the song intention.
@LinearLineman that snippet is from a test recording of an external drum synth and midi fed back into the iPad, triggering M3000 (sax from the Harry's tapes, voice from the Caitlin set, aka Sopranotron), output went straight back into the Pro Tools system via an iCA4+ on Midi and analog channels 3+4 (the box is really versatile in this setup).
The arrangement is based on a midi loop of Blondie's Heart of glass (lol), with notes beeing duplicated, shifted and chopped on the timeline. In fact the riff turned out to be somewhat catchy and is scheduled to be extended, as is the snipped off 808 cowbell part, that follows it...
I'm a much (!) better editor than a player... for me it's like 'playing the sequencer' and also applies to audio parts.
Btw I never use the beats/time grid, it's all shifted freely by ear.
There's a lot of subtle tone processing in the background, which is not immediately obvious, but it follows a certain idea how the whole thing is supposed to sound.
That's just my way of working (which I perceive relaxed and inspiring), not claiming that it's 'the right way' to compose, perform, arrange. We're all different, fortunately
ps: I frequently listen to tracks, that I don't find pleasing or entertaining at all, it's all about sound experience.
Thanks @kuhl for your kind words, especially coming from you. You are definitely the best serious composer on the block IMO. Everyone should hear your string quartet and Mahler with Model D! Please, at least post them on this thread. Please!
@Telefunky I had no idea if such processes.You sound like a real wizard at this. My attitude toward music creation is pretty all embracing and what you are doing fits right in with the creative juices that drip down the trenchers of this forum! Post another, and please check out @kuhl n SoundCloud if he is too modest to post his talent for all to see. By the way, he recorded the quartet with iSymphonic and the Mahler with Miroslav. For your ears probably lacking the truth you apply in your musical assessments. But for me, his use of the virtual tools available on iOS is simply awesome.
Better yet, @kuhl, post them on this forum.
Creations could use a tuxedo to dress up the rad gear!
@LinearLineman pretty much all my stuff is done this way. You probably listened to the Vector example in your TC11 thread... the initial 1.40 min are 3 live snippets of TC-11 one after the other. Then drums were added and the 3 synth recordings were snipped to various pieces and arranged on 2 tracks. Bass noodling recorded live to that backing.
It's my P-Bass with Thomastik flatwound strings and a very 'wooden' tone.
The 'wide reverb' effect in the synths is Valhalla DSP's Übermod (Reverb preset TapeEcho).
I use this plugin almost exclusively for just that preset (tweaked for the respective part).
That track was entirely build from audio snippets in SAW Studio, which is way faster than Pro Tools in stich-editing. In fact I only used PT for edits after I discovered that it handles focus and region dragging similiar to SAW.
Will checkout the tracks you mentioned.
@Telefunky Cool that you use The M3000.
Have you bought any of the additional sounds & are they worth the money?
I was especially looking at the soprano add-on
Cool composition process you described.