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Off-topic well-intentioned water-cooler world-cup thread

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Comments

  • Aren’t we all

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    Made Sven wear The Shirt. Not convinced he's completely signed on. #ItsComingHome

    :D :D

  • @LinearLineman said:
    Good thread. I think soccer might go big in the US when the metric system is finally accepted. Hey, that field is a hell of a lot bigger than a football field, right?

    OK, so let me just address the idea that Americans don't like or "get" soccer.

    Here's the tl;dr: American fan whines about soccer.

    For those with time to waste, see below:

    Now, bear in mind, this is a cry from the heart. I am a tremendous soccer fan, and this comes from a place of deep insecurity and sour grapes — no question. But it's a little tiresome to be told that Americans don't get soccer. (It's like making fun of English cuisine. I suppose it once was valid, but is simply no longer true. I mean, Jamie Oliver! Yotam Ottolenghi!)

    In sheer numbers, more Americans play soccer than Brits do. The estimates go from 16 million who play regularly to 24 million, nearly half the population of England. The American television audience for the 2014 World Cup final was 28 million. That's a LOT of people.

    However, the audience for the Super Bowl that year? Something like 106 million watched. And that was a game between Seattle and Denver! Alas, most Americans prefer football football.

    But this country, to paraphrase our greatest poet, contains multitudes. The millions of Americans who love soccer? They really love it. But they can't be put in a box. Virtually every American schoolkid plays youth soccer. But the most popular team in the United States is almost surely the Mexican national team, or possibly Chivas, from Liga MX. Then Barcelona, probably. In New York City, you can watch the World Cup in a bar devoted to every single one of the 32 teams playing (with the notable exception of Saudi Arabia — there are no Saudi bars or restaurants in any of the five boroughs).

    And yet, you'd think with all those people playing and watching that the U.S. could have qualified from a relatively weak region.

    Concacaf is a shitty region to PLAY in — English fans shocked at the casually dirty play of Colombia would be blown away by what's allowed in Central America. But outside of the U.S., Mexico, and Costa Rica, the teams are weak.

    So what happened? is it just that Americans don't understand the nuances of soccer? Possibly, but I think its more that we have possibly too many people to come together as a team.

    For instance, it's easy to see that England and Mexico play very different styles. The Germans and the Spaniards are very different. But American soccer is ALL of these styles, and we have not found a coach who knows how to mesh them. It may not be possible.

    For a long time our national team players came through colleges. This got us excellent athletes with a very strong sense of team, but the players (who had been overcoached for years) had zero flair and even less improvisation. Sure, they were decent enough to reliably make it out of the group stages and even into the quarterfinals a couple of times. But there was never enough to progress.

    Then Jurgen Klinsmann came along with the idea that American soccer should look like German soccer, which is not a bad idea. There were lots Americans born in Germany, and he found some excellent players. But it didn't make a cohesive team, and the players rebelled. What's more, it completely neglected the Latin American style, which is played all over the United States.

    And until recently, most of the players came from the suburbs. That is changing, and if we can find a way to scout the breadth of the continent, it’ll be a fearsome team.

    What I’m saying is: England, if you don’t win this year, the US will beat you to it!

    Seriously, good luck. I don’t think you’ve been tested this tournament yet, but I think you’ll rise to the occasion. And as much as I dread the condescension that will surely come if you win, it is a real pleasure to watch Brits DURING a game.

  • @ExAsperis99 said:

    — English fans shocked at the casually dirty play of Colombia would be blown away by what's allowed in Central America.

    No shocked, disappointed.

    At my school, football was 90 minutes with 22 kids beating the living shite out of each other on a muddy field. I have the broken nose to prove it.

    Ever seen the film Kes where he hangs from the crossbar? I actually did that.

  • @MonzoPro said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:

    — English fans shocked at the casually dirty play of Colombia would be blown away by what's allowed in Central America.

    No shocked, disappointed.

    At my school, football was 90 minutes with 22 kids beating the living shite out of each other on a muddy field. I have the broken nose to prove it.

    Ever seen the film Kes where he hangs from the crossbar? I actually did that.

    Happy days :)

    Good post @ExAsperis99. Still pissed off that the US didn't qualify, but only because of the focus and further development it would have delivered. Americans love a show :) I am hoping you'll get your act together for when it's over here in 8 years time...what you need is a real star....Pulisic maybe? Someone for the kids to pretend to be and believe they CAN Be....keep the faith.

  • @ExAsperis99 I used to dig the New York Cosmos back in the day.
    But why doesn’t USA have their own “world cup” or States cup with 50 states to compete about a place. Instead of mingling with middle & South American football? The Latinos are disappointing with their dirty play. Even Spain & Portugal are dirty plsyers and actors. A US Cup? Maybe something similar exists i dunno

  • Being Norwegian I rooted for Sweden, Dänemark und Iceland... but they’re all gone. All played good football, especially Sweden. And the played fair!!!
    Now I hope for England. I’ll never forget the atmosphere on Wembley in 66. My great grandchildren sponsored the tickets back then... Bobby Charlton was amazing, so was the young Alan Ball & of course Geoff Hurst!
    Football going home will be great. I will make Britain great again... (hmm sounds familiar)
    The land of the Flying Pink Floyd Pig and Trump Baby Blimp will go berserk!

  • @Kühl said:
    Being Norwegian I rooted for Sweden, Dänemark und Iceland... but they’re all gone. All played good football, especially Sweden. And the played fair!!!
    Now I hope for England. I’ll never forget the atmosphere on Wembley in 66. My great grandchildren sponsored the tickets back then... Bobby Charlton was amazing, so was the young Alan Ball & of course Geoff Hurst!
    Football going home will be great. I will make Britain great again... (hmm sounds familiar)
    The land of the Flying Pink Floyd Pig and Trump Baby Blimp will go berserk!

    Very fair post, but, Mister, I didn't realize you're so vastly (and venerably) ancient :)

  • @Kühl said:
    @ExAsperis99 I used to dig the New York Cosmos back in the day.
    But why doesn’t USA have their own “world cup” or States cup with 50 states to compete about a place. Instead of mingling with middle & South American football? The Latinos are disappointing with their dirty play. Even Spain & Portugal are dirty plsyers and actors. A US Cup? Maybe something similar exists i dunno

    There is the MLS cup, and that league has grown in the 20 years it has existed, although the quality is not there like in Europe yet. But to see where it started and where it is now, they're is a huge difference. I think there are a lot of Americans who like soccer a lot, but baseball and basketball get all of the coverage this time of year and then NFL pretty much takes over everything.

    I love the world cup because it's cool to see countries come together and have a common rooting interest and a sense of national pride (needed in this country right now, but this is not political commentary).

    I do hate the flopping and the whining- players are worried about acting and crying for fouls more than athletics- I think that's a generational thing.

    I have no point to this post really, but when world cup is here in 8 years that's going to be fun, especially since I'm sure there will be some games in Giants' stadium (it will never be met life stadium to me...) which is 4 miles from my house. So whoever is planning on coming to the US to watch it on 8 years, my house is for rent and it will come with an iPad 1st Gen running ios 5.1.1 and an ipod touch running ios6 with nanostudio on them so you can reminisce about the good old days of ios... ;)

  • @ExAsperis99 . Thanks, I stand corrected! But I am glad I gave you the opportunity to explain it to me and others who didn't appreciate the true lay of the land. I had no idea, really!

  • @mrufino1 said:

    @Kühl said:
    @ExAsperis99 I used to dig the New York Cosmos back in the day.
    But why doesn’t USA have their own “world cup” or States cup with 50 states to compete about a place. Instead of mingling with middle & South American football? The Latinos are disappointing with their dirty play. Even Spain & Portugal are dirty plsyers and actors. A US Cup? Maybe something similar exists i dunno

    There is the MLS cup, and that league has grown in the 20 years it has existed, although the quality is not there like in Europe yet. But to see where it started and where it is now, they're is a huge difference. I think there are a lot of Americans who like soccer a lot, but baseball and basketball get all of the coverage this time of year and then NFL pretty much takes over everything.

    I love the world cup because it's cool to see countries come together and have a common rooting interest and a sense of national pride (needed in this country right now, but this is not political commentary).

    I do hate the flopping and the whining- players are worried about acting and crying for fouls more than athletics- I think that's a generational thing.

    I have no point to this post really, but when world cup is here in 8 years that's going to be fun, especially since I'm sure there will be some games in Giants' stadium (it will never be met life stadium to me...) which is 4 miles from my house. So whoever is planning on coming to the US to watch it on 8 years, my house is for rent and it will come with an iPad 1st Gen running ios 5.1.1 and an ipod touch running ios6 with nanostudio on them so you can reminisce about the good old days of ios... ;)

    Great post. Those of us alive should consider it :)

  • @LinearLineman said:
    @ExAsperis99 . Thanks, I stand corrected! But I am glad I gave you the opportunity to explain it to me and others who didn't appreciate the true lay of the land. I had no idea, really!

    Then of course, I come across the broadcast in Arizona where they explain such pressing World Cup controversies as “how many players are on the field”!

  • Hear rumors that Belgium are thinking of bringing in a new player for the French game...

  • I always wondered why the line after "3 Lions on a shirt" was "Jewels we made still gleaming", didn't seem to make any sense at all. Anyway it turns out according to the Guardian today the actual line is "Jules Rimet still gleaming".

  • @richardyot said:
    I always wondered why the line after "3 Lions on a shirt" was "Jewels we made still gleaming", didn't seem to make any sense at all. Anyway it turns out according to the Guardian today the actual line is "Jules Rimet still gleaming".

    PICKLES!

    Actually, I think a pilgrimage to Theuley might be in order at some stage...

  • @ExAsperis99 I don’t know jack about soccer but that seemed like a brilliant breakdown.

  • @DCJ said:
    @ExAsperis99 I don’t know jack about soccer but that seemed like a brilliant breakdown.

    I almost believe it myself!

  • @mrufino1 said:

    @Kühl said:
    @ExAsperis99 I used to dig the New York Cosmos back in the day.
    But why doesn’t USA have their own “world cup” or States cup with 50 states to compete about a place. Instead of mingling with middle & South American football? The Latinos are disappointing with their dirty play. Even Spain & Portugal are dirty plsyers and actors. A US Cup? Maybe something similar exists i dunno

    There is the MLS cup, and that league has grown in the 20 years it has existed, although the quality is not there like in Europe yet. But to see where it started and where it is now, they're is a huge difference. I think there are a lot of Americans who like soccer a lot, but baseball and basketball get all of the coverage this time of year and then NFL pretty much takes over everything.

    I love the world cup because it's cool to see countries come together and have a common rooting interest and a sense of national pride (needed in this country right now, but this is not political commentary).

    I do hate the flopping and the whining- players are worried about acting and crying for fouls more than athletics- I think that's a generational thing.

    I have no point to this post really, but when world cup is here in 8 years that's going to be fun, especially since I'm sure there will be some games in Giants' stadium (it will never be met life stadium to me...) which is 4 miles from my house. So whoever is planning on coming to the US to watch it on 8 years, my house is for rent and it will come with an iPad 1st Gen running ios 5.1.1 and an ipod touch running ios6 with nanostudio on them so you can reminisce about the good old days of ios... ;)

    You know... give it a few years, maybe qualifications for both gender teams, and juniors, and real football will take USA with storm. I bet someone sees the business opportunity. Isn’t it that USA is made for?
    The nfl has big big trouble anyway. I’m a nascar fan myself, but football is always in when it’s World Cup.
    I remember 1994 when you guys hosted it and Maradona was caught doping. Classic :smiley:

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @Kühl said:
    Being Norwegian I rooted for Sweden, Dänemark und Iceland... but they’re all gone. All played good football, especially Sweden. And the played fair!!!
    Now I hope for England. I’ll never forget the atmosphere on Wembley in 66. My great grandchildren sponsored the tickets back then... Bobby Charlton was amazing, so was the young Alan Ball & of course Geoff Hurst!
    Football going home will be great. I will make Britain great again... (hmm sounds familiar)
    The land of the Flying Pink Floyd Pig and Trump Baby Blimp will go berserk!

    Very fair post, but, Mister, I didn't realize you're so vastly (and venerably) ancient :)

    I’ve lived for ages and ages, at least that’s what it feels like sometimes.
    I’m also in a bad spot, needing blood to survive & I’m a vegetarian. Non gluten-free veggie vamp.
    It’s a miserable life, spending each nite in front of an iPad (light dimmed) and sleep when the sun is shining.
    And who the hell ordered garlic on my pizza?

    But the finals in 66... was it a goal? I still can’t tell.

  • I hope the new Canadian Premier League takes off. My boys are very excited that one of the teams will be based out of our hometown, Victoria BC.

  • @gusgranite said:
    I hope the new Canadian Premier League takes off. My boys are very excited that one of the teams will be based out of our hometown, Victoria BC.

    I don't know what the tipping point is, but there is one. Folks are very excited here that Austin is going to get its own team at last....I suspect @Kühl is right; let us reassemble in another 20 years and see what's what...

  • @Kühl said:

    @mrufino1 said:

    @Kühl said:
    @ExAsperis99 I used to dig the New York Cosmos back in the day.
    But why doesn’t USA have their own “world cup” or States cup with 50 states to compete about a place. Instead of mingling with middle & South American football? The Latinos are disappointing with their dirty play. Even Spain & Portugal are dirty plsyers and actors. A US Cup? Maybe something similar exists i dunno

    There is the MLS cup, and that league has grown in the 20 years it has existed, although the quality is not there like in Europe yet. But to see where it started and where it is now, they're is a huge difference. I think there are a lot of Americans who like soccer a lot, but baseball and basketball get all of the coverage this time of year and then NFL pretty much takes over everything.

    I love the world cup because it's cool to see countries come together and have a common rooting interest and a sense of national pride (needed in this country right now, but this is not political commentary).

    I do hate the flopping and the whining- players are worried about acting and crying for fouls more than athletics- I think that's a generational thing.

    I have no point to this post really, but when world cup is here in 8 years that's going to be fun, especially since I'm sure there will be some games in Giants' stadium (it will never be met life stadium to me...) which is 4 miles from my house. So whoever is planning on coming to the US to watch it on 8 years, my house is for rent and it will come with an iPad 1st Gen running ios 5.1.1 and an ipod touch running ios6 with nanostudio on them so you can reminisce about the good old days of ios... ;)

    You know... give it a few years, maybe qualifications for both gender teams, and juniors, and real football will take USA with storm. I bet someone sees the business opportunity. Isn’t it that USA is made for?
    The nfl has big big trouble anyway. I’m a nascar fan myself, but football is always in when it’s World Cup.
    I remember 1994 when you guys hosted it and Maradona was caught doping. Classic :smiley:

    Well, I have a wife and two daughters who are all soccer nuts and both daughters play currently, wife played in college, so it's taken hold in our house. Women's world cup last time was very widely watched here. Men's team is having a tough time right now but I good they're on their way back up. Many Americans think it's boring because goals are rare, but i think that's what makes it exciting.

  • edited July 2018

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @gusgranite said:
    I hope the new Canadian Premier League takes off. My boys are very excited that one of the teams will be based out of our hometown, Victoria BC.

    I don't know what the tipping point is, but there is one. Folks are very excited here that Austin is going to get its own team at last....I suspect @Kühl is right; let us reassemble in another 20 years and see what's what...

    Hi guys. Johnny, I do hope we get the MLS team from Ohio, and sorry Columbus, but we need this more than you (LOL). I’ve been to several MLS games, mostly at FC Dallas where they play in a 20,000 seat stadium custom built for them. It is surrounded by dozens or so fields for youth soccer and well, it’s a fantastic facility. I hope they build something similar here in Austin.

    I’ve also attended Kanas City games at the beginning of the league where they played in the enormous 80,000 seat Arrowhead stadium which was ridiculous even though the turnout was good (for soccer) at probably around 15-20,000 per game. They have since built their own soccer specific stadium which I hear is excellent.

    We did have a minor league team, The Austin Aztex,, for a while but I’m not sure what happened to them. I think they played in a high school football stadium. I never made any of their games due to my work-travel schedule.

    For you international fans, here in ‘Merica, anything below the top league in sports is considered a minor league and we don’t have teams shifting up and down leagues due to success or failure...(sorry can’t think what it’s called). MLS is Major League Soccer, their minor league is USL, the United Soccer League. Im not sure if there are other pro soccer leagues in the states or not.

    The MLS has expanded even more in the last couple of years, so it’s up to 23 teams now, three of which are in Canada. So it has grown quite a bit from the original 10 teams but it has been slow going. Maybe in another 20 years it will compete more with the other Major leagues sports, but that’s a tough one to speculate.

  • edited July 2018

    @TozBourne said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @gusgranite said:
    I hope the new Canadian Premier League takes off. My boys are very excited that one of the teams will be based out of our hometown, Victoria BC.

    I don't know what the tipping point is, but there is one. Folks are very excited here that Austin is going to get its own team at last....I suspect @Kühl is right; let us reassemble in another 20 years and see what's what...

    Hi guys. Johnny, I do hope we get the MLS team from Ohio, and sorry Columbus, but we need this more than you (LOL). I’ve been to several MLS games, mostly at FC Dallas where they play in a 20,000 seat stadium custom built for them. It is surrounded by dozens or so fields for youth soccer and well, it’s a fantastic facility. I hope they build something similar here in Austin.

    I’ve also attended Kanas City games at the beginning of the league where they played in the enormous 80,000 seat Arrowhead stadium which was ridiculous even though the turnout was good (for soccer) at probably around 15-20,000 per game. They have since built their own soccer specific stadium which I hear is excellent.

    We did have a minor league team, The Austin Aztex,, for a while but I’m not sure what happened to them. I think they played in a high school football stadium. I never made any of their games due to my work-travel schedule.

    For you international fans, here in ‘Merica, anything below the top league in sports is considered a minor league and we don’t have teams shifting up and down leagues due to success or failure...(sorry can’t think what it’s called). MLS is Major League Soccer, their minor league is USL, the United Soccer League. Im not sure if there are other pro soccer leagues in the states or not.

    The MLS has expanded even more in the last couple of years, so it’s up to 23 teams now, three of which are in Canada. So it has grown quite a bit from the original 10 teams but it has been slow going. Maybe in another 20 years it will compete more with the other Major leagues sports, but that’s a tough one to speculate.

    Good overview.

    I do feel that without relegation and promotion something is lost. I blame the damn socialist NFL for all this :)

  • Shouldn’t this thing already be decided and over with. Russian winters come all of a sudden you know. I guess it’s a long drawn out process to recover in between games since they can only fit one person at a time in the oxygen chamber.
    On a side note there is a Toronto pro team the FC but I don’t watch it and am not interested. More of a hockey fan here but I tend to get sick of hockey by the time they hoist the Stanley cup and vow to myself not to get caught up in it next season...I always get lured in a little. Watching soccer is hard for me because it’s no way near as much fun as when I watched with Dad and Mom too.....just some thoughts

  • @Arpseechord said:
    Shouldn’t this thing already be decided and over with. Russian winters come all of a sudden you know. I guess it’s a long drawn out process to recover in between games since they can only fit one person at a time in the oxygen chamber.
    On a side note there is a Toronto pro team the FC but I don’t watch it and am not interested. More of a hockey fan here but I tend to get sick of hockey by the time they hoist the Stanley cup and vow to myself not to get caught up in it next season...I always get lured in a little. Watching soccer is hard for me because it’s no way near as much fun as when I watched with Dad and Mom too.....just some thoughts

    Also in Canada: Vancouver Whitecaps FC, and Montreal Impact.

  • Sacred blue.

  • France-Belgium what a utterly boring game. Hope tomorrow will be more exciting.

  • @mannix said:
    France-Belgium what a utterly boring game. Hope tomorrow will be more exciting.

    Boring? Utterly boring?
    It definitely slowed down after the France goal, and after poor Mbappe kept accidentally throwing the ball all over the field when he was exercising good sportsmanship and trying his very best to hand it over for the Belgium free kick — whoops! Whoopsie! There it goes again! But there were still some real drama at the end and some crazy saves by both keepers.

  • I thought that was a great game! Really open attacking football until France understandably slowed things down in the last 20mins.

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