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Is there a DAW that can record the MIDI of Animoog or Model 15?
As the title says, is there any DAW/MIDI capture on iOS, or anywhere else for that matter, that can properly capture all the MIDI Animoog and Model 15 can generate with their player strips such that the performance can be replayed exactly by the MIDI going back into these apps? I get really wild with these and have only been able to get what I want out of recording direct to audio thus far.
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Alike Animoog, SynthMaster One is also a wavetable synth and can generate Animoog-like sounds. Plus, it is AU and can record MIDI into other DAW apps.
I believe Auria Pro can be set up to record and playback the full MIDI implementation of Animoog
The Moog apps output MPE right? I think you’ll have to either do a complex setup to get it to work in a normal DAW or do some fancy MIDI rerouting to get MIDI into Garageband because it does record MPE without much setup. Garageband just doesn’t like to work with other apps very well. You’ll probably have to use MIDIflow or MIDIFire to get the MIDI into Garageband in the first place. You might have to do something fancy to get MIDI out of that track back into the Moog app, but I’m not sure I’ve never tried this.
Interesting. Which daws record mpe data from synthmaster one or model 15 when used as AU? I only tried Bm3, and there it doesn’t seem to work...
Cheers!
So far I can only get it to work properly in Garageband (tried Model 15 as AU), don’t have Auria...
Animoog/Model 15 are pretty different from MPE apps in that they don't do polyphonic pitch bend, so I don't think they are stricly speaking MPE-enabled apps.
What they do have is polyphonic aftertouch, which you get by sliding up and down the keys after they're played. Auria and Cubasis can both record the Aftertouch as long as Animoog is set to send it (in the MIDI options panel), although they don't seem to be able to record it per-note (affects all notes). In practice though it's actually quite hard to hear the difference so I would think that most of the time it should be good enough.
I did a quick attempt in GB using M-15. When I played the recorded midi back, it sounded like some parameters were not responding like they were playing live. There were a lot of midi send toggles in the M-15 midi settings panel, maybe these need to be manually setup to capture more of the expressive controls.
After reading what @richardyot wrote above, it seems maybe the poly pitch bend is what I was not hearing in the recorded midi playback.
Last time I checked, Animoog uses Polyphonic Aftertouch (PolyPressure), so any DAW / Sequencer that can handle that should be able to record and play that back perfectly. (before anyone asks, Xequence doesn't "but it's on the roadmap" ducks)
@SevenSystems Hahaha
That's an acceptable pre-answer to an inevitable question
If you want to record MPE midi in Garageband use the Garageband keyboard not the animoog style one available in Model 15. It works the same just looks different. I just tried it with the Animoog style keyboard available in the AU Model 15 and yeah it does nothing. Enable Pitch mode on the Garageband keyboard. You might need to enable MPE in the settings of Garageband for this too, I’m not sure as I always have that enabled. Trying all this as IAA sounds like a nightmare, so I’m not going to try that in a setup... My loop is sounding neat with poly pitchbend! And Garageband seems to be the first time I’ve loaded Model 15 as AU without a crackle fest...
Well, I had a feeling this wasn't going to be easy.
I did a Cubasis run, but it definitely doesn't do the polyphonic Legato, where say if you have two notes, green and orange, if you then drag across the Animoog keyboard, those colors are maintained, as they represent the nodes on the screen of the oscilloscope or whatever that is. Cubasis in replaying this constantly switches to a new node.
Auria is able to do the polyphonic legato, but something definitely seems to be missing on the vertical axis of the keys. Maybe some type of quantize setting I can't find in Auria is doing something.
From some research, it seems Animoog can accept an MPE controller, but is not itself one. It was designed on the MIDI standard and they apparently pushed the boundaries of tradition to make this a pre-MPE MIDI controller.
Can't find a way to record Animoog's MIDI into GarageBand. How would one try that?
Basically, for me if the GarageBand keyboard had the vertical axis velocity/aftertouch thing, and the User-Definable Keybed Animoog has, it would be perfect.
Animoog doesn’t send midi out unless you buy the IAP for that so to ask the obvious question, you did buy the midi IAP? Sorry if that was assumed, I hadn’t seen it mentioned in this thread so far.
Yeah this is exactly it it seems when it comes to Auria.
So, when we press and hold a note on the Animoog Keyboard, lower on a key will be quieter, and dragging upward will make it louder basically.
This can be done with each of the four notes available at the same time, with each of them able to have their own value for this, i.e. two notes can start softer than the other two, and those softer two can be dragged louder upward while the other two can be dragged softer downward, and this can be maintained for all notes even if they are dragged left or right of their current pitches.
The pitch for each of the four notes are tracking individually, maintaining their node, and each node is maintaining the loudness and softness of its dynamic while dragged between pitches.
This is definitely noticeable when missing as you can't do the dynamic swells without them.
After recording, Auria's MIDI output or Animoog's MIDI input isn't recognizing that.
I'm going to try more Sequencer/DAW apps today until I can nail this down.
Yeah, I don't think Animoog can do MIDI out at all without it.
Yeah, it has the polyAT thing on vertical axis. No user definable scales, but there are a handful of scales available. Only a handful though.
I'm not finding the polyAT volume capability on the vertical axis, where is that?
I get the pitch mode, but only get poly pitch-bending there.
You guys are definitely playing out on the cutting edge. MPE is still too new to be implemented correctly in very many apps, if in any at all. You guys should be prepared for some pain and frustration, as you will be actively participating in the process of getting full-functioning MPE in your apps, with hiccups a’plenty along the way. It is usually how it goes with any new tech. I mean, AU is still pretty screwed-up, and that has been out for a while now.
Personally, I think I may check back in a year, and avoid all of the growing pains.
Do you have Volume set up in the patch? I know on Model 15 aftertouch goes to whatever the patch says it’s going to. You’ll probably have to program the patch in standalone and then load it as AU in Garageband and it should be there. It’s working in Garageband for me with Cuttoff Freq but that is what the patch is set up for.
The Moog apps don‘t do MPE midi out.
Also no iOS app record this proper. Even most desktop DAW‘s not.
From what I've read, Animoog outputs basic MIDI, but has extra instructions on a few CCs where they pushed the boundaries. That's because their implementation was designed back in 2012 or so.
It would be cool if it were MPE I guess as it might be more compatible with GarageBand at least from what others have said in this thread.
OK, I see now, thanks for walking me through that!
Apparently that previous patch I was using didn't have much going on with the vertical.
Now it just needs a user-definable keybed because it kills me not being able to pitch drag cleanly to the notes I want.
Do you have Thumbjam or GeoShred and MIDIflow or MIDIFire? You can use these as controllers as they actually do send out MPE. They both also have user definable scales I believe. Sorry, if I’m wrong I tend to hate auto scales, I’d rather chance a wrong note usually. At the very least, both have a large selection of scales. I thought I heard the Moog apps output MPE, but that is quite obviously wrong. Garageband just doesn’t like to advertise that it is an instrument so you have to route it through one of these MIDI apps. Garageband will record the MPE though. Thumbjam works in split screen so you can even have it as a side tab while Garageband is open. I haven’t been able to get Thumbjam to do the PolyAT part though yet. It says it can do it...
Think there are two (or 2.5) separate questions with regard to capturing the output of Animoog-style tine keyboard.
1) Is there a DAW that can capture Polyphonic Aftertouch (aka "PolyPressure"). That's what Animoog uses to allow the vertical movement per finger/tine. That can be mapped internally to several things, not just volume.
When you adjust the pitch snapping on the Animoog keyboard, it allows you to move your fingers left and right to vary the pitch. And it allows this per finger/tine. The only way this can be transmitted over "standard" MIDI is via MPE (or what MPE uses as far as I know—a new MIDI Channel per note along with +/- pitch bend information).
So, questions 2 and 2.5 are:
I dunno the answers to any of these. @GeertBevin might!
Yes, whatever App on whatever platform, iOS or Mac, can truly capture and recreate an Animoog performance I will acquire immediately.
A crusty old forum post from another site suggested Reaper was capable.
Does anyone have it installed to test? I'll try to get to it tomorrow if not.
I have Thumbjam installed and will try that avenue out just to try the functionality. I kind of seriously dislike it as an app though, mainly because of its scale system. The Animoog system just slays everything for me in ease of use.
Regardless, its very good to know I may have a decent solution for Model 15 as an AU in GarageBand.
Logic does record everything. Even proper MPE if needed.
Live and Bitwig couldn‘t do it. Not sure if they can do it now.
If you do try Thumbjam just remember you need something to route the MIDI like MIDIflow or MIDIFire. Here they show how to do it with GeoShred, but Thumbjam works the same for routing. They use Garageband instruments, but AU MIDI works just the same. I use MIDIFire instead of MIDIflow because I have it. I really wish Garageband would work like normal things do with MIDI... That and lack of any reasonable time signatures stops me from using Garageband most of the time.
Yes. GarageBand captures and records, and then plays back poly Aftertouch by capturing MPE (ie it respects and records the midi channel that the Aftertouch was sent on). It does this very cleverly all within one midi track. I’m sure of this because I’ve tried with the Roli app hosted as an AU and the Aftertouch app sending MPE data into GarageBand feeding to the Roli AU. You can hear it doing Poly Aftertouch (pressure) per note and it also does Poly ‘slide’ per note in the same way (that’s cc 74 usually - and it’s per midi channel/note).
You must go into Garageband’s system iOS settings and switch on MPE compatibility though (which is off by default).
Logic works in exactly the same way - once you select ‘mono midi’ (it’s probably the same code base as Garage Band) only with Logic you can get in and see / automate everything. It’s great. It’s all in one midi track but diffferent midi events (the note and it’s corresponding aftertouch, cc74, velocity value and pitch bend are given a unique midi channels cycling from channel 2-16 each time you hit a new note). By the way, channel 1 is reserved for any global midi ccs you want to send. Of course it relies on whatever you are playing sending the midi in this MPE format (eg my Roli Lightblock or the ‘Aftertouch’ app).
Whether Animoog or Model 15 actually send anything in this format on their ‘Midi Out’ I don’t know. And whether they accept all this in I’m not sure. Pretty sure they don’t use the per note midi cc 74 for example.
Volt and SynthMaster One both respond to this full MPE midi data when it’s sent to them. But not sure they send it out as midi out.
Auria also captures Aftertouch (not sure if it’s per note Aftertouch.) Because of this there is a workaround for Auria but it’s a bit of a pain. Basically, you create a new midi track for each MPE midi channel. You don’t actually need to create 15 tracks though. For example the Roli AU is only 4 voice Poly as far as I can tell anyway. So you just need to create 4 midi tracks for channels (2-5). Volt is max 8 voices, so you could create 8 midi tracks in Auria.
Then you need something to play the midi on, and in its settings you need to restrict the midi MPE cycling to just the tracks you’ve set up in Auria to receive on. Eg MPE is set to just use channels 2-5. A Roli Block or Seaboard etc would work. As does the Aftertouch app or probably Geoshread if it’s set up right (they all let you restrict the number of midi tracks the MPE data is on). Or I believe, ThumbJam also has these functions. To get ‘pressure’ working on an app you need a device with 3D Touch of course.
Yep. Spot on.
Don’t know.
See above
Garageband doesn’t seem to handle glissando properly when I use the model 15 animoog style keyboard, though...