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Remember back when...
About 20 or so years ago I was a PC man and had hand built the computer (nearly twice the "minimum specs" Cubase's box said) to finally buy and use Steinberg's Cubase Audio. (VST wasn't for another two years or so) This was their midi sequencer program and four (4) tracks of I think stereo audio. I really wanted and needed this to work so I made sure to get advice on the components that would all hopefully get along, various IRQ, slot positioning for my internal cards because REMEMBER how all that stuff made the musician have to learn quite a bit about computer hardware and dick with all these things? After all I just needed to sequence my D-50, six-trak, MPC, OB-1 and Minimoog (with Kenton CV-MIDI box), record the Bass player on audio, drums on audio and REALLY that would have been great because back then I mixed it all and tracked with A3340 Teac 4 track reel to reel and obviously the computer sequencing and handling some audio was gonna be great. I thought. So I bought Cubase Audio for $499 I think and a Darla or Layla very bare bones audio interface. It was a disaster. MIDI would be great and audio would not record so I studied and bugged others doing similar and they said it was this video card plays havoc with the slot the audio card resides in and I change it around a gillion times per manufacturers suggestions. Fiddle with interrupts MODIFY AUTOEXEC.BAT AND CONFIG.SYS (remember THAT?) Essentially screw with this setup for a year and a half and WRITE NO MUSIC! I bug the music store because that was the onset (sort of) of people installing software and then returning it so NO RETURNS! I hound Steinberg's very patient and helpful techs because I purposely built this twice as burly as they said was necessary and it just never worked right. Finally after almost 2 years of this, the music store was tired of me and REFUNDED my $$.
So I bought a Mac. G4 400 - DIGI 001 Pro tools LE - all worked BAM just like that I never used a PC for music again. Nowadays they are so fast I don't think it matters. The reason why I posted this is: Am I alone here? Who else lost a couple years of their life trying to get that era PC to be creative (and not SoundBlaster)? The realization I came to with MAC (then - little less now) is my G4 400 was not a bunch of components put together that YOU had to make get along. NOO it all got along great - even when adding the DIGI - that setup was ideal for my band mates and me for years.
So why am I wasting your time on the awesome Audiobus forum if you made it this far? Because I wonder sometimes when reading app reviews why quite often apps get a five star rave and right above is a 1 star "This is a total waste of money DO NOT BUY" review then another "this app sounds like heaven and is just too good!" Remember the purpose of the App Store originally was to "meticulously scrutinize and troubleshoot" apps PRIOR to people shelling out $$ or £,¥, or € ? Right? It seems pretty much fact that if you want all your cherished music apps from the last year to WORK like they have - I AM NOT LOADING 7 onto my iPads! I love AUDIOBUS it works flawlessly for me if I don't force feed it too much for iPad 2, I close unused running apps, start AB first, etc. all the great tips musicians who endured the early years of PC's pay attention to. It's inevitable this tablet will become a clock but I just shelled out 300 for it a year and a half ago! My point: Apple - you are doing good with profits I think. Apple and Mac have been synonymous with artists and musicians so naturally IOS followed this path but what up with all the problems running hundreds of dollars in apps on IOS 7? Seeing the awesome speed difference between my 1st gen iPad mini and the AIR! Wow I want one but I gotta get it with 7!? Like stated in other posts here some new apps will be 7 and up only! I can understand what a nightmare it must be to write an app THEN try make it work on all different generations of Idevices, also iPad iPhone iPod and then contend with whether or not it should be backward compatible for grumpy Americans like me. Reminds me of 20 years ago kind of. I still really like some apps that haven't seen updates in years like Strange Agency and wonder if my favorites like iDensity, MS20, ISEM, etc will be IOS 7 only like when Mac went OS X and many things had to be ran in "old" mode. Ok thank you for allowing me to say this and this really made me wanna say alladat.
http://blog.hyprcb.com/post/58786909895/the-problem-with-ios
I obviously love AB and the wide variety of awesomeness we have for RELATIVELY CHEAP CONSIDERING... It is so cliche to release software especially an operating system PREMATURELY (uhh say windows 2000, windows throughout TIME!) I honestly didn't see a need for 7 immediately and especially not working flawlessly with music. Why did Orphion need to change? for some "illegal gesture"? or something? Are you kidding me. So we "in the know" DO NOT UPDATE that one, huh...
I am Mo Freeapps and I really love to only compliment people's wonderful apps if you haven't noticed. Even though this all should work I cannot bring myself to say how lousy an app is when it is a real task I suppose to design, build, troubleshoot, submit, wait, then hopefully it works right in REALITY because there would be zero bad reviews if the AppStore thoroughly tested- but then a longer wait... So why can't TRAKTOR DJ IOS or DJAY2 seem to allow the synchronization of two 170 bpm drum and bass tracks still?! One update seems to work then the next is like two steps back! Ok enough.
Comments
Way. Too. Long.
In one concise sentence, what point were you making?
Um well is that a rule? Thanks for the sweet Magellan and Sunrizer patches BTW!
Hmm well I suppose this long ramble is saying that purpose of strict AppStore guidelines then all the apps should just work as advertised but they do not. But the worst I really suffer is you not wanting to read a bit so I'm alright with that.
@sidcain really enjoyed your magnum opus, I could relate to much of it ! I in fact ran a studio using an Atari 1040 with cubase - it worked a charm (not like ios7) had to stripe one tape track with a timecode for syncing audio...happy days.
Please forgive those of us with A.D.D.
LOL - I ramble. Yes on the 1040ST Cubase sequencing was rock solid. I mean didn't Luke Vibert (among many) do so much epic music with that setup? I began my sequencing first with an EPS then Master Tracks! Ahh the day we took the PC to the desert and unloaded a lot of 7.62 into it was a fine day!
I think the summary message is iOS 7 is buggy and released prematurely.
I agree.
I had stability on early 90's pcs though and issues with mac set ups, so nothing was ever perfect. The fact that better performing hardware breeds more powerful software and higher expectations, which in turn requires more powerful hardware means that we can be caught in a circular state of progression rather than a static situation.
I think it is too much to expect Apple to thoroughly test all new apps submitted to make sure they all work as advertised. In addition to this forum and App Store reviews, there are many sites that review apps and even videos that demo their capabilities. As in all marketing, there's a lot to be said for buyer beware. By being very limited in how they refund app purchases, the onus is put on the buyers to investigate an app before buying it and upon developers to protect their reputation by being responsive to their users and creating quality products as the word seems to get around pretty quickly about which apps aren't worth getting.
If you want rock solid performance when playing for a live audience, I don't think iOS would be your first choice as you'd have to thoroughly test your setup and make sure updates don't have changes that cause you to have failures in your musical production chain. This may come in time as iOS and iOS apps mature. Right now it's more like the Wild West in terms of what standards are with Apple and some major app developers providing the structure around what other app developers can build upon/around.
If you think the iOS music app environment is chaotic, just imagine what it's like for the Android users and developers with a multitude of different hardware platforms and versions of the Android OS to support or not.
Personally, I haven't had much pain switching from iOS 6 to iOS 7. I will say that the kinks in IAA are still being worked out. There have been some bumps along the way but the capacity of the different generations of iOS devices are significantly different and music apps can be very demanding of hardware resources so this shouldn't be surprising or unexpected.
I'm, on one hand, blown away by the stuff we can do on the iPad and iPhone, but yeah, also find myself peeved when something doesn't work as it should.
My original PC studio set-up took me six months to get the audio inputs working on Logic, and that is back before it switched to Mac only. The good old days. Mind you, Logic has always seemed lacking in logic, but that is by the by. So six months to do just that, and relying at the time on what today seems like a total ballache hardware sampler, truncating and mapping and saving onto floppy disks... Getting to grips with VSTs and fiddling with MIDI thru connections.
Frankly I don't miss any of that. But given the technology we now have at our fingertips, something like iOS7 coming along too early and in some cases breaking the tech we have come to rely on isn't all that dissimilar. I may have to wait another six months before my investments work properly again. Bah.
@sidcain Not a rule, by any means, and I wouldn't want to be the guy who makes up the rules if we had 'em. I did read all of your post, I just couldn't take it all in as I kept losing the thread. I just wanted you to know that I was interested to hear your point if you could trim it down a bit.:)
" The onus is put on the buyers to investigate an app before buying it and upon developers to protect their reputation by being responsive to their users and creating quality products as the word seems to get around pretty quickly about which apps aren't worth getting." Well said @Paulinko
I have not had any problem that would prevent me from making music on iOS 7. It was not released prematurely at all. Every big OS upgrade has down sides and it is as Paulinko very articulately put it, for developers to get on with it and do their updates ASAP.
I was around when people were struggling to make music on PC but I thank the man upstairs as I did not buy a PC cos all the studios I went to in London had Macs. Apple constantly pushes the envelope. Where are all them damn floppy discs and what about the hue and cry when Apple made a computer that did not use floppy discs. There is that famous quote by Steve Jobs about people wanting faster horses. He got that right.
iOS 7 is only a few weeks old and come next year this time, all will be well until iOS 8 turns up :-)
Well, perhaps 'prematurely' is not the right word but on my iPad2, I have experienced loads of crashes, audio dropouts and other odd occurrences since installing it. While the app updates seem to have been expedient, the OS remains buggy and, for me, irritating. I am hoping the Air I shall get imminently will cope better - and one might assume Apple wanted to release an OS that worked best on its newer models.
definitely wont be getting the air which I believe is the new ipad3 - ill conceived & underpowered with ios7 the new "Vista" - will wait until Apple get their act together again, if ever.
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I liked Vista. There. I said it.
Thank you all - I really appreciate this discussion and not being ripped to shreds! Originally it seemed that Mr Jobs- more so Apple, and the IOS staff would be completely overseeing the whole process of app submission, checking to make sure no malware or general evilness shall incubate within your pod or pad according to his presentation when the App Store began but I just wonder if this is so being that there is no real news of mischief that I see and there are so many good and bad reviews on apps and ios 7 on old and new devices. Yes I realize that a percentage just don't take the time to try and learn and immediately complain when the learning curve isn't that of an etch a sketch but... It's gotta be a challenge for the learning music/sound developer when the new OS doesn't handle audio quite as efficiently as the old PERHAPS JUST ON OLDER DEVICES!? Time has forced the inevitable upgrade on everyone I think but it got to me when so many people are not able to use the killer synths and music/sound stuff that's been totally blowing up the last couple years.
So maybe my expectations and/or logic are off being that THEY MAKE the only hardware you devs are submitting apps for and again (like the 90's when i got my first Mac) there shouldn't be any mystery for Apple when their new IOS doesn't AT MINIMUM work just as good as the old did because THEY MADE and/or make the only hardware that'll ever be running it! I guess I still thought they had that sh!t locked down like when i got the G4 (hence the long story..) and my imac, MBP, etc. one would think but the importance of new color themes and pretty stuff seemingly mesmerized an engineer and the new improved wont run what the old has been for years. 7 just seemes like a new theme and I was interested in themes um never.
The lengthy comparison I attempted to make was when I was frickin stoked with Apple back then (now too actually - both macs have been on for a couple years and Reaktor and Reason couldn't run any better for my music process) so to me IOS should too.
I agree somewhat with an earlier comment that Apple couldn't possibly troubleshoot every app but I know they have been stacking cash from all the music apps that have sold and one would think that the music and sound mechanics of their new mobile OS could have been thoroughly scrutinized and tested better prior to debut. Anyhow I'm preaching to the choir I think! Peace.
I haven't experienced any issues with iOS 7 on my iPad 2. No crashes. No hair-pulling. Haven't regretted updating for one second.
Cool. I am glad. It seems like some have problems and some don't. I have learned to not immediately upgrade OS on item I use a lot. It just has to have a bigger memory/CPU footprint I would think if just to show off potential of latest IOS gizmo. Operating systems haven't historically gotten smaller I don't think. My iPhone got 7 and runs slower and I would like to have not upgraded but there are other concerns in life despite my posts! But on your iPad 2 with IOS 7 does Nave, Sunrizer, Thesys, MS20, Addictive, Thor, Turnado, all AUFX, audio reverb, super phaser, cube synth, twisted wave, MULTI track daw, both PPG apps, all the density granular apps, TC 11, epic synth, Animoog, Cassini, Yellowfier, Loopy, iSem, Magellan, Samplewiz, Sampletank, Traktor, Djay2, DXI, Arctic Prosynth, BM2, etc still function in Audiobus like in 6.x?
Because even on 6 running some of these THRU Filtatron or WOW then into Audioshare I get some clicking and the occasional Audiobus dropping of an effects app. So my luck WOULD make my dated tablet a high tech clock, MP3 player, or more likely frisbee because I'd get pissed. But that's me.
Here's a question I've been wanting to ask - Is IAA just as good as Audiobus in everyone's opinion? Funny place to be asking that and I am just wondering honestly if it allows for a way more elaborate amount of routing and recording possibilities native to the OS. I would think that alone would crash things more on an older iPad like mine. I'm still wondering why there was no Apple pay Audiobus type of thing but I'm sure this has been discussed.
Bikeshed.
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For me, IAA works for DAW-centric workflows, but AB is better for sound effecting, jamming, etc. Would be improved with multiple effect slots with input selections, but hey, it made us all happy as is.
Generally I like to see my interconnections as a graph, not have to hunt them down by inspecting every insert setting one by one.
dwarman said:
Just you wait...
Sebastian said:
Hurry up Seb I'm starting to wet myself !
btw, cudos for maintaining back to iOS 5.1. My wife upgraded to my iPad 3 after I upgraded that to an Air, and now I have the iPad 1 back. I plan on using it as if it were a VST, or final mastering.
@Sebastian, one potato two potato .... :-)
Sebastian said:
But I don't want to wait. Need my testflight or hockeyapp details?