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ACOUSTICS: BeatHawk v. ISymphonic v. SampleTank
Hi, I am trying to get the best iOS acoustic instrument palette. I think I have found the best basses in iFretless, but for the orchestral sounds I have opted mostly for the Beathawk inapps. Would be interested in people's opinions on which they think are best and why.
Comments
I really love the nylon guitar on Beathawk pack it’s amazing!
It’s the Barouque pack the classical acoustic guitar is sooo real!
If you have Auria, which can stream sfz's from disk, there are some pretty excellent orchestral public domain sound fonts. Check out Sonatina orchestra from Mattias Westlund, Saint James orchestral soundfont and virtual playing orchestra. The Miroslav orchestral libraries for SampleTank are quite good.
I had Sample Tank Miroslav and it's not worth the price imo. I have iSymphonic though and it sounds awesome, but it's sooo expensive with all the in-apps.
But I found a different solution to great orchestral sounds than buying apps. I've downloaded Virtual Playing Orchestra ( http://virtualplaying.com/virtual-playing-orchestra/ ) .wav samples and turned it into instruments with Cubasis Mini Sampler. After small editing they sound really good to me, so you can try it
Edit// oops I didnt see that comment above about VPO
@asia which packs do you recommend and what are the download times like?
@LinearLineman
I really like the No Budget Orchestra sounds, VSCO2 is also pretty nice.
All the samples have about 600mb so it isn't that much, time depends only on your internet connection. I downloaded it in a few minutes.
@espiegel123 : Can you name some SFZ sites that have jazz style files as well?
Sorry @asia, I meant the ISymphonic packs. Which are your favs?
I'll look at the site and mention it to my friend, @McDtracy. This is just his sort of thing! Thanks!
This is a subject dear to my heart. To get a perfect suite of sounds you're going to have to spend a lot.
Yes, SFZ/SF2 collections are free but they have come with a lot baggage. They are usually packages of General MIDI sounds with the typical assignments for every GM instrument which means they can be huge and still not have the best individual sound for a trumpet you seek to finish a track. If you have time and technical skills then dig deep into SFZ's but understand there's only one SFZ Sampler that can "disk stream" a Multi-Gigabyte sample library and it's in Auria Pro called Lyra. I can't find a cheaper alternative to play these 2-5GB Libraries on IOS.
I hope I'm just missing something... I see some that will load the Libraries but they need disk streaming to be used with your typical DAW. BS-16i works great for Midi file playback but it's realtime response can be 1-2 seconds... sometimes 10 seconds after the controller plays a note BS-16i will play it. So, the $8 SF2 player is a mixed bag of features. Those General Midi files with those Salamander Piano's or VSCO2 sound pretty damn good but it's a "batch" model of music making.
The Cello in ThumbJam is amazing... for another $10-15 investment in iSymphonic I could add the solo cello and sometimes that extra buy-in just isn't good enough.
Still, overall nothing touches iSymphonic overall if you have the coin. IK Multimedia's MP1 and 2 fill in some of the gaps in the iSymphonic line up for me. Their cello is awesome for example:
https://soundcloud.com/user-403688328/cosmix2-1
@McDtracy. I have to respectfully disagree about iSymphonic being the iOS sine qua non. I believe Beathawk beats it at half the price. Both are Au. Beathawk is a pain in the ass because you have to keep resetting the patch when you record, but the sounds are exceptional.
I just recorded a solo improvisation using the BH vibraphone and I am reeling! Cannot post it as it is under construction, but take my word, Milt Jackson would almost approve. The brass is in your face as compared to iFretless brass. The choirs are as real as they come on iOS. Perhaps the strings in iSymphonic are a bit better, but neither are great IMO. The tutti orchestras in Beathawk are fewer than iS, but of very high quality. And the Beathawk acoustic grand came in second on the piano poll.
Wood winds are missing in Beathawk, so iS for that, but they weren't great either. The best clarinets, LMO are in iFretless sax, tho the saxes suck.Perhaps the French horns are better in iS, but the BH horns are quite credible.
I wanted to go with iSymphonic but in using the starter set of strings I was always disappointed, and if you listen to the demos the sounds are pretty uneven. The Beathawk instruments just have a groovy feel and I guess that is a personal thing. But to make my point I will post the vibraphone piece. Just give me a few minutes to get it up on SoundCloud.
I tend to be passionate about some stuff, like the Ravenscroft piano, but I realize it is just my subjective opinion and others surely will feel differently.
Okay, @McDtracy and @asia and @MusicMan4Christ, here is a track made from Beathawk mallets package. The sustained vibraphone with the rele cut in half from the preset ( you can edit BHs sounds somewhat. ISymphonic is pretty limited in that respect. No ADSR and other parameters, tho it does allow velocity adjustment, but you can deal with that on BH by adjusting the attack setting.
So thus track was a total one off to try the vibes in BH, you will hear an unexpected depth to the sound, IMO, like a real piece of aluminum is being struck. Also around 2:00 there is a break that I could not have played if the instrument wasn't authentic sounding. When I played the midi track with the Cubasis acoustic piano the performance was embarrassing!! But somehow I altered my playing as though I were really playing the damn xylophone! You just have to believe me on this one. Anyway, I think the track says it all.
My rating of iSymphonic is based upon the best coverage of a symphony orchestra. It's complete with a few missing pieces.
I have Beathawk and like the sounds available but it's a really short list of sounds if you want to re-create symphonic scores.
I've spent a lot on their products (Crudebyte's Colossus Pianos and iSymphonic) and spent a good amount of time cursing the products and a good amount of time in sonic bliss. Tradeoffs.
I really should not recommend their products because they can really piss you off. But I can't find a better overall IOS Orchestra product.
IK Multimedia's MP1 & 2 have the best solo instrument and percussion coverage overall. It's just very dated with many samples coming from the 90's and showing a lack of care across the board on the details.
Still, if money is not a barrier... get 'em all and assemble something like this:
https://soundcloud.com/kongkylien/kuhl-mahler-5-fabfilter-double-track
Maybe he'll tell us what he used (assuming it's an IOS effort) or when he moves to the desktop products and why.
If you really care about the perfect orchestra you should be using a desktop and multiply the budget of IOS shopping by 10-20x. To get every detail right (loud, soft, articulations, etc) with fidelity it takes 30-40 GB's of wave files in 24 or more bits @ 96KHz.
@Kuhl just threw another Symphonic sound set into the mix with Notion for $50 counting the IAP's (from the Presonus Hardware folks):
https://soundcloud.com/kongkylien/demo-of-notion-for-ios-beethoven-allegretto
Alas... no jazz trumpet IAP. Just saxes. I think I have to get this.
It will be fun to see a score approach to music again. We used to buy these huge paper tablets of score paper to write marching band charts. They paid for custom arrangements from starving music students.
Unfortunately, I can't. The salamander piano is very good. But I haven't delved into saxes or jazz trumpet or basses--in large part because when people have played me what they think of as killer demonstrations of virtual instruments in a jazz context, I have been underwhelmed by the reeds and brass that I have heard except for cases where the player clearly stuck to the things that the virtual instruments could pull off. So, they weren't very satisfying to me as the jazz I like tends to push the envelope. Really good jazz players will use overblowing and variation of vibrato in a way that I think really challenges samplers.But that's just me.
That's a brilliant statement of why "sampled solo trumpet" never sounds particularly jazzy. I think the more expressive interfaces from an App like Geo shredder might help get us there after they finish re-creating all the potentially high energy guitar tones and want new samples to work from. Really careful, subtle use of the pitch bend wheel on a sampled jazz horn sound can help immitate some of Miles Davis' expressive sounds... short, quick falls and uplifts.
Jan Hammer used this approach to sound more like the strings in the Mahavishu Orchestra and on the original Miami Vice TV soundtrack. He could do a all synth recording sound like a smokin' hot rock fusion band. He has a new recording out, I've read.
Ugh dealing w Soundfonts, hunting, loading, tweaking... isymphonic isn’t perfect by any means but it’s pretty darn good. My Sampletank is 3/4 full of IAP’s.. Yeah, I’ve prob spent a few hundred but man, it’s a good and versatile collection. When it goes AUv3 that and BH will be plenty enough for me without having to worry about sitting there and auditioning the 30,000 sounds on NI Komplete .
I remember an sold Ensoniq VFX demo from the 90’s. 3 meg of sounds on the keyboard total and they did a Prokofiev -like demo that was beyond belief . A lot of it is in the arranging skill. I’ve heard other ROM workstation orchestral demos that were amazing using very little sample memory .
@LinearLineman : Wuuut? There’s someone here who actually knows who Milt Jackson is? Seriously? Have you ever heard of Red Rodney?
I think too that BeatHawk has best samples sounds on iOS. UVI is well known for that. You also have ThumbJam which is a good complement. Soundfonts and Bs16i seems to be the way to go to expand your palette.
@telstar5. Yep. Rodney played with Lee Konitz in Lee's nonet, I think. Lee was a peer of Lennie Tristano, who was my teacher, Connie Crothers' teacher,.
Oh, and not to mention the great John Lewis, Percy Heath and Connie Kaye. The MJQ made me want to be a jazz playa.
@janosax. Glad you agree on the Beathawk sounds. It is rather personal, though and they do not have all the bases covered as @McDtracy points out. The sounds are much less of an investment, tho, and more tweakable.
Since I first started messing with iOS music (2010) ThumbJam still has the best trumpet (Harmon Mute) especially when played in the ultra expressive TJ GUI, which has gestures for Volume, Vibrato, Tremolo, Pitch Bend. TJ has long been my go-to for trumpet, cello (as mentioned above) and many many other acoustic instruments
That’s absolutely right. I’m not posting desktop music, without a big red warning in here
@LinearLineman : Lee lived down the street from me and Warne Marsh used to live and teach in my building.. Warne was a really kook kat.. Check this out, I actually recorded w Red Rodney in 1990 on an album called “Red Alert” which featured a 19 yr old Chris Potter.. That’s me rapping, lol...
I met Red Rodney years ago at an annual jazz fest that a local restauranteur used to put on.
There is a great story by Wayne Kramer of the MC5 about playing with Red Rodney in the prison band. If I can find it, I will post it.
That is great!
I used to see Potter play when he was a local 13 year old prodigy. He's done quite well 😆
Damn @telestar5!! Bird lives! And the Mooche... I thought he OD'd in 1965 or was slaughtered in the arms of another man's wife! Great stuff! And on this crazy assed forum! Thanks so much for sharing this and yourself. Is this the first posting of your music? Please let's hear some more... on the Creations category IYWBSK. It would be so cool! What are you doing now, or was that now? If not, Now's the Time!
Yeah, Warne was tops. I sang with his solos as part of my training. I assume you know of Lennie Tristano and perhaps the great Connie Crothers? She was perhaps the best all around teacher of jazz ever (she taught every instrument, knew and did everything to work the body right, most affirming teacher who ever lived IMO). There are others of our generation. Lenny Popkin, Richard Tabnik, Kazzrie Jaxsen (Liz Gorilla), and a few others on the Newartistsrecords.com label, founded by Max Roach and Connie Crothers. Search with safari to hear some tracks. I have 5. CDs there. Search Michael Levy if you care to.
Thanks again for appearing. Would love to hear more!
@McDTracy, @janosax, @MusicMan4Christ, @Littlewoodg, @JeffChasteen, @tja, @asia, @espiegel123 and all, I have had to re-evaluate my opinion about ISymphonic after using it in AU along with Beathawk AU on Sunday. If I had to choose one I think I would pick ISymphonic for one compelling reason: It works to perfection in Cubasis! It was my first endeavor with multiple instances in AU and it was an eye opener! Firstly, I finally understood two of the important reasons users love AU. The multiple instances and the appearance of the app on the host screen, ISymphonic was a breeze to use and the onscreen UI always just said "Ready!", whereas Beathawk was a total problem, requiring multiple resetting and a nervous breakdown at four instances which included a frozen screen and snatching back one of my inapp packages. Really! It wanted me to puchase it all over, so now I have a problem to resolve with UVI to get it back ( tho they are great in customer relations and very responsive). Still, my adoration of UVI products is tarnished a bit. And I have to say the ISymphonic strings and woodwinds I used were quite excellent and very realistic for iOS.
Here is the piece I am working on. The strings and woodwinds are ISymphonic if you can discern the woodwinds. The trombones and French horns are Beathawk. Looks like I will be doing some downloading today!
The iSymphonic spin off, Oriental Strings, is good too.