Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
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Online DAW app sites
Soundation app
Chrome Browser - https://chrome.soundation.com
Flash Player - https://soundation.com/studio
Tutorials - 
Synth app:
Comments
Wow that’s cool this can even be done !
I think I've tried all the non-Flash (stoneage technology) browser - based "DAWs", and they are all seriously lacking in pretty much every way, especially UI (just my opinion of course!). Nice try though
There's a collaborative one based in Dublin called 'Melosity'. Chatted with the founder a few times who was very passionate about it.
https://melosity.com/
Well, that's because:
The whole web is a mish-mash, hodgepodge technology and a huge mess
There is no single solution out-of-the-box that meets all the needs of an application. It's all mash-up this, mash-up that and just make it work. One browser/OS update could wreak havoc and break the application and taking businesses down. They need to keep updating their web apps constantly and continuously just to keep them functioning.
Desktop-class apps (including iOS apps that were stated as desktop-class by Steve Jobs) will kick the butt of any web application any day - all day - with closed eyes.
That said - these web DAW apps are just for some extra fun
It's fun to play Sixten user's compilations of Kraftwerk's Man Machine songs on synth.fm under its Browse menu.
@MobileMusic excuses! Yes, the WebAudio API is not yet fully stable and also quite slow (get crackles quickly) on iOS, but that's the audio side... you can make a perfectly fine and zippy UI/UX using HTML, CSS and Javascript (or, if you hate Javascript, which I actually do too, a different language that transpiles to it.)
Agree.
Lovely! And BTW, I decided to make a bigger drop shadow for those popups so they don't get lost as you mentioned (but won't make it into the next update
)
Sure, We can wait
Anyone tried Chrome Music Lab?
https://musiclab.chromeexperiments.com/Experiments
they are all missing one key feature... just like ios daws 🤣😎🤣😎🤪🤪
Don't take it personally, but pretty much stockpile of nonsenses, untrue statements and misunderstandings of technologies... I say it this way - there are no mediocre languages, there are just mediocre coders...
Messy or not, it’s the arguably the most successful transformative technology since Gutenberg’s printing press. Sometimes just getting shit done is better than ruminating forever over how to do it perfectly.
Oh, and html isn’t the ugliest language ever. That would be German. Or ... Klingon? I’m not sure.
(Ducks and runs for cover, changes forum handle, and turns off the wifi router.)
Yup. It’s a good tool to teach basic audio concepts to kids and fun to tinker with at times.
Doesn’t quite check the boxes as a DAW though.
I agree that Javascript USED to be quite messy and have weird concepts and unexpected behaviors...
However that has changed dramatically since recent ECMAScript versions, and there's multiple languages that are much nicer and transcompile to Javascript (for example, CoffeeScript, or, my own dialect of that, Tea
)
HTML is messy in that it is an XML (or SGML) dialect and thus is quite verbose. But again, HTML5 has fixed a lot of the conceptual mess.
I don't see many things wrong with CSS, apart from the sometimes slightly limited syntax.
And I agree with @wim, it's transformative and has, after many, many failed attempts (i.e., Java 😂), finally created a truly cross-platform environment that is easy to learn, flexible, good-looking, fast (V8 often approaches C speeds), and actually used everywhere
I started out in assembly language on Z80s, worked through all sort of things including C, C++, Objective C, Java, Perl, PHP, and Ruby.
I’ve been developing the web since, well, since it started 25 years ago and I don’t recognize any of the things you describe, @MobileMusic . Web technologies are far from perfect and have evolved from some pretty rough beginnings but - as @wim says - they have enabled amazing things to happen (not all good IMO but that’s people, not technology).
But I would never have thought a web-based DAW was going to work out. That’s a bad fit, surely.
No one is going to mention or has brought up Audiotool? https://www.audiotool.com/
I suppose if I was a heavy laptop/desktop user and didn't want to pay for desktop grade software I'd be using this. I've played with it a bit in the past, it's pretty cool.
I've worked on desktop applications for over 3 decades starting with dBASE/FoxPro interpreters, CA-Clipper compiler to PowerBuilder RAD tool, SSRS and some PHP too. I worked very hard on CA-Clipper for years reading its manuals and coding in non-visual Norton's text editor, compiling to see results, debugging... I did not have to work so hard on objected-oriented PB which is visual and as I already knew about variables, constants, data types, functions, loops and decisions... (it's like learning one musical instrument and able to play other instruments) it took me just 2 months to master it. PB is similar to VisualBasic, Delphi, etc. and it has everything out of the box including native database drivers - no mashing up 3rd party libraries, frameworks to make it work - even though we can use external controls through DLLs, OCX... It connects to backend databases and that's about it.
On web, there is a new technology, framework or library every 3-6 months and it is a learning process for life. I did not have to learn anything new after learning PB 25 years ago - not even refer to its Help after yearly enhancements/major updates to PB.
Desktop applications built over a decade ago still work on the latest O/S rock solid. Web apps that were running fine on IE 8 would not work or load properly on modern browsers.
There are virtually no security issues on desktop apps - no cross-site scripting, session hijacking, request forgery, SQL injection, CAPTCHA, etc - as these desktop apps are compiled binary executables and no need for any secure coding guidelines.
Our users despise SSRS / Business Objects web reports - they want PowerBuilder reports because of the UX (even though they are just reports - fetch data and dump to screen).
Desktop apps can have highly complex screens with dozens of tab pages, sub tab pages, hundreds of controls with master-detail relationships, entry forms with data validations (see screenshots links below) and still work without a flinch. To convert such complex screens to web would be a mess - unless we break its various sections down into small individual pages that dilutes and dumbs down the UX. It's the same reason why a full-blown DAW is hard to code as a web app.
On a web page/form, everything (including numbers in forms) is TEXT - formatted in the frontend and converted in the backend.
Desktop apps are solid, powerful and kick butt. Web apps are dumb pages.
The purpose of any application is to process raw data and generate finished reports (every web page is just a report).
With virtualization, desktop apps can be run from anywhere.
Here are screenshots of some of the complex screens I created/maintained (the high-quality ones are mine while the below-average ones are existing screens that I maintained)
https://sites.google.com/site/powerobject/screenshots
https://sites.google.com/site/powerobject/screenshots2
Complex screens -
https://a57162aa-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/powerobject/screenshots2/theme-dual2.png
https://a57162aa-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/powerobject/screenshots2/theme-dual.png
https://a57162aa-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/powerobject/screenshots/Broker-Commissions.png
https://a57162aa-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/powerobject/screenshots/Facility.png
My own personal project - Matrix dB Explorer -
https://a57162aa-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/powerobject/screenshots/Matrix-Explorer-data.jpg
Theme Settings - https://a57162aa-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/powerobject/screenshots2/theme-settings.png
Latest screens - compares security roles and objects in 2 databases with synchronized scrolling, synchronized expand/collapse of tree-view nodes, showing variances and migrates/sync's them -
https://a57162aa-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/powerobject/screenshots/Security-Migrator-all.png
https://a57162aa-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/powerobject/screenshots/Security-Variance-all.png
That said, some fun factors here -
I'm not a robot (family-friendly) -
Grandpa's iPad -
Yes, it is modular and cool !!
The intro video is superb!
@MobileMusic sorry to say, but I'm not sure you're fully up to current developments in web technologies. The whole scenario you described in your last post sounds like the era of PHP 1.0 and HTML 3.2. A lot has changed since then!
In particular, many or even most apps based on web technologies do not even have to communicate with a server at all. There actually is no textual representation of anything. Nothing has to be exchanged as text. The document (yes, it's still called that, but it's an app) is a totally binary, opaque, optimized presentation known as the DOM.
Of course, if you like, you can still write HTML to construct the DOM nodes (say, by setting innerHTML or using document fragments), but it's not textual in the end and doesn't have to be parsed all the time.
I know apps (even iOS music apps) that are based on web technologies that you wouldn't even dream of thinking that they are
ADDENDUM: I will of course fully agree that any native app developed by a reasonably talented programmer is always faster and has a lower memory footprint than an equivalent web-app. I'm a seasoned C programmer myself and love it. But you also have to make a cost/return calculation. If development time is cut down 90% by using web technologies, and the app is 50% slower, frankly, the latter is a better option most of the time if money is involved!
https://www.ampedstudio.com/
Did anyone mentioned Amped? They are using Web Audio Modules. Dexed and OBXD are available as web audio modules. Still have not tried it, don't care to try it.
https://wam.fm/
Bandcamp as a website is neat, but not interested. I am not even that interested in web-based stuff, but I did come across that recently.
The framework chase does indeed tend to feel nutso. It's like the twitterfication of dev stacks. There is benefit to some of if though. A lot of the outdated ideas you mentioned above about HTML/JS/CSS are now gone precisely because web developers are quick to switch to something better.
Bit of a strawman. This is generally true for Windows and OSX today because they both went through pretty big changes a little over a decade ago. This was certainly not true 5-10 years ago.
In contrast, you can still load the very first HTML page in any web browser. Even the browser on the 15 year old nokia phone lost in the back of some drawer. That's almost 40 years ago. Good luck running a Windows 3.1 program.
Beyond 'pages', if your web application used web standards (even html3, css1 and ecmascript 2, all from the mid–late 90s) and avoided proprietary extensions like all of the MS gunk, it will still run in any browser today.
Considering how many security updates all of our OSes receive constantly, you must see how crazy this sounds. There are currently 2151 CVEs for Windows 10, for example.
Um. Are you trolling here? PowerBuilder's reporting UX is lightyears behind things like Tableau or what your average web developer can do with a database and something like d3.js. I feel bad for people at work that have to deal with PB reports!
Tons of popular examples that show otherwise. Google Analytics/Sheets/Gmail and Fcb**k spring to mind.
Tabs, sub tabs and hundreds of controls is not the reason it's hard to code a DAW as a web app. Obviously the Garageband UI can be coded pretty simply with HTML/CSS. It's the processing speed and relative start-from-scratchiness of current audio and MIDI standards/APIs. APIs are obviously maturing. JS speeds are growing at amazing rates but it still ain't close to something like pre-compiled C++ when it comes lower level things like audio timing, etc.
Again, this is an old notion. HTML5 supports lots and lots of different data types natively. Also, the DOM is entirely mutable—you can create any data type you want. If you mean "it's all ASCII characters", I suppose that's true for text-like things but that's the same with desktop apps. Of course, beyond input data types and custom data structures, there things like images, videos, sounds — all of which can be captured and/or generated on the front end without any backend interaction. Plus, there are 2D elements like the canvas element or you can go full on WebGL.
In 1991? Yes. Today? Of course not. https://www.google.com/earth/, https://radio.garden/, https://www.figma.com/ ...
Diffs? Sure. https://github.com/v8/v8/compare/5.3-lkgr?diff=split
Amped Studio uses WebAssembly, which runs a compiled C++ binary at native speed, taking advantage of common hardware capabilities.
https://webassembly.org/
Not only is it possible to create incredibly complex UI in the browser, but with WebAssembly you can run code as efficiently as a native app. I believe this is the framework that other desktop-class creative softwares such as Figma and WebFlow use.
Wouldn’t be surprised if a web DAW such as Amped Studio becomes the #1 most used within the next 5-10 years. Hosting all of your projects in the cloud, and even the possibility of doing live audio processing in the cloud means you could pick up work anywhere - on your laptop, phone, tablet, your grandma’s PC from 2003, etc. regardless of device capabilities. No more buying $3000 MacBook Pros for music production.
The only thing holding this back is bandwidth. For real-time audio processing you’d need to be able to upload / download audio pretty fast for the experience to feel native (assuming you’re storing your samples / projects in the cloud). But I’m sure 5G will take care of this
I guess I should be thankful for desktop apps. Installing, upgrading, supporting, re-installing, upgrading, supporting them over and over and over for 1,000's of users provided gainful employment for me for more than 35 years. But, as someone in the trenches, and who had to assume the roles of whole teams laid off over the years, I only celebrate the shift toward web-delivered solutions. I simply could not have kept the businesses running that I have over the years on a desktop app paradigm.
I'll trade a lot of GUI flash for something that can be upgraded instantaneously across 50 to 500,000 users instantaneously. And, contrary to my expectation, user satisfaction has consistently been higher for most web-based applications as well, at least for business uses.
(OK, Microsoft Outlook is an exception for sure ... until it gets screwed up (and it always does). Then people are very, very thankful that there's a web alternative as a backup.)
Desktop app virtualizaton? I like running a nice big server farm or loads of AWS instances as much as the next guy. But not many companies I've worked for can afford that approach.
OK ... too much OT for me. Last post.
I imagine the online DAW world is gonna be a very different place in a few more years once WASM gets more adoption. https://webassembly.org/
@wim virtualization is used with desktop apps by devs while working from home/remotely and also by companies for licensing the app to multiple/hundreds of client users to log into the same server/app remotely
I looked at Amped Studio, popped up the keyboard, played a few notes quickly -
It did not look like a serious DAW I would pay for. On that note, the free AudioTools.com looks way more solid
I know exactly what virtualization is. It has many more uses that just those you mention. I don’t understand what point you were trying to make, but also am not interested in veering the thread even further off topic. -cheers