Thoughts on new iPad Pro (for music and other creators)

sch

In my case, I also have the issue of steadfastly refusing to use Bluetooth for connecting anything to do with music production. A typing keyboard (the regular Apple wireless KB, not the almost $300 iPad specific one) and the pencil OK, but I’m damned if I’m going to buy airbuds and MIDI keyboards because there’s no easy way to interconnect! 😤

mrufino1

No, I will not be spending over $1000 on a new iPad. It's not a computer replacement, but if I buy one at that price it will have to be, so it won't work for my needs.

And if I want to not like the fact that they removed the headphone jack, Someone who disagrees will just have to respect that, as I respect their right to not mind. It will prevent me from getting a device for music production that doesn't have one. Why? Because sometimes I just like to plug my headphones straight in, even if other solutions may show a difference in sound. I'm sure apple will not be heartbroken that I won't be buying one. Maybe at some point I'll replace my air1 with a 2018 iPad, but as long as it does what I need I won't be replacing it.

david_2017

I just watched the keynote and I am shocked in which direction the prices at Apple develop. This is intense... first iPhones now iPads. Who can afford a device like that (and we know the iPad will not and have not substituted a notebook).
I bought an iPad Pro 10.5 256GB for 829,- before they changed the prices (in June 2016 I think). Now iPad means 1049€ which is an increase of more than 200€. Wow

difuzer

@Fruitbat1919 said:
‘Up in arms’ is just hyperbole. People are concerned about the single USB-C and the dropping of the headphones socket for many reasons. It is concern and not’up in arms’. Here’s a few reasons:

1. A single doit all jack on a Pro device is asking for trouble. It’s all eggs in one socket basket. Two USB-C ports would have been sensible in a Pro device.

2. It’s still early days, but having USB-C does not mean that Apple will let you use that socket for all the things that you would (rightly) expect to use it for on a laptop. Already there are reports this may be the case. So, just because it’s a USB-C socket, don’t expect it’s going to be any better than how Apple have treated us with cables all of a sudden not working after an update.

3. My experience of Apples cables and dongles are that they are extremely expensive for their level of quality. My look at the selection of dongles and cables newly released is that they are not yet covering all use scenarios well enough, unless we are able to use some of those other solutions already on the market (see 2 as to why this Amy not be so).

4. One of the major benefits of a portable device is minimising extraneous parts hanging on. One USB-C socket is less likely to help afford other manufacturers clear and easy thoughts on how this can best be achieved. Already many manufacturers ignore the iPad hardware add on market as they have been bitten in the past (Apple changing sockets is not new, but keeping up with what and how you can use that socket as well, makes them cautious).

5. Apple could have promoted iPad music making, putting another nail in the coffin that iPads are not serious music making tools. They did little towards this. As music makers, we care for our hobby first and care little for Apple having to appease gamers with wow look at the detail on this basketballer. Showing that they can have Photoshop and graphically intensive games won’t keep us believing that they can’t make a high end DAW for iOS. They have the money and ability, but it obviously does not rank highly enough with their money making plans as yet.

6. The shows themselves are becoming very similar to the video piss takes on you tube. Apple play this psychological game to create as much hyperbole around their new products as possible while they often drip feed tech at continually higher prices. They are masters at making money - problem is they are showing all companies how to do it - soon that choice people talk about will be gone as you will have to be locked into someone’s system to such a degree that choice no longer becomes relevant.

7. All the above and more often leaves people with a nasty taste of being manipulated and used - which in this society we surely are anyway, but I won’t go there. It’s perfectly normal to kick back on occasion. Most of us know the tricks these companies play, but they are all the same, so little choice is out there. So, let us have a little kick. It will surely (as we know) make little difference, but may help us feel a little better in the long term. If however after having your say, you should feel the need to have a little jibe at anyone who is not over the moon because...’Apple’, then just let us all relax in the knowledge that it doesn’t really matter how much hyperbole is thrown at discussion of Apple products - very few instances of any discussion have ever changed any company plans. In fact, I can only think of the PS4 vs XBox One thing lol

I won’t vote because the choices are too finite. I’m likely to upgrade an iPad one day, or not....all depends on lots of life things and I doubt Apple will sway me much one way or the other at the moment, as I don’t think I’m high up on their demographic love list

1. Valid point, maybe in the future but this is the first revision of a new lineup so only time will tell.

2. Also very true, but with Apple's own voiced self-interest of making the Pro lines "viable" laptop alternatives I don't see them stonewalling connections any more than the current iteration of using CCK's and other add-ons.

3-4. No arguing that, however, 3rd party options have been viable alternatives so I expect to see more compatible USB-C accessories in the future.

5. Apple is touting the Photoshop push because of a partnership with Adobe. An omission of audio programs at this time isn't a solid "nail in the coffin" to music productivity. Just because they shine light on one feature doesn't mean the others are neglected. Apple has been pushing Auv3 development which shows their interest in iOS devices for music production. While pure speculation still currently, I wouldn't put it past Apple to do a version of Logic for mobile (Even if it ONLY ran on Pro level devices, etc. Obviously this is a pipe dream.)

6-7. I do not believe Apple is out to manipulate it's customer base, as much as some might think. Any OS you use is inherently going to "lock you in" to a certain degree, this is not unique to Apple. It's not to say customer feedback doesn't help foster change. (See new Macbook butterfly switches that are garbage. Apple realized this and has silently been updating them since.) But will yelling into the void that people want minor port changes to sway Apple's design? Not likely. However, the same can be said for Google or Microsoft.

pauly

There's always the USB-C->3.5mm dongle from Apple...
The battery should last quite long and when there's a need to charge it the ears might need some rest

I found with the lightning version that it crackled when moved, and was one more thing to get lost - in fact, haven't seen it for months.

Still pissed about my Rode iXY being made useless by the removal of the iPhone headphone jack.

IMO losing the headphone jack on the iPads is a stupid, pointless exercise on Apple's part and a 'fuck you' to the IOS music making community.

Maybe we'll look back at this time as the beginning of the end for IOS music making.

On the other hand, USB-C has the potential to be great, if the implementation is done properly.

Think my next purchase with be a Deluge.

MobileMusic

@Liquidmantis said:
Yeah, all the negativity and hyperbole is tiresome. I was ready to order the 12.9 as soon as it was available but decided to slow my roll a bit. If it still had the headphone jack I would have gone ahead, but I decided to wait until I figure out how I'll switch my current CCK-based uses to USB-C. I'm also slightly worried about the square edges being uncomfortable to hold. The chamfered edge of the last gen really bothered me without a case. I wish they just used the current iPhone curves.

Curves won’t take the new Pencil to snap on to its edges. The new design is also good for USB-C and to offer some new style and differentiate from prior models for a change.

MobileMusic

@Liquidmantis said:

Yeah, all the negativity and hyperbole is tiresome. I was ready to order the 12.9 as soon as it was available but decided to slow my roll a bit. If it still had the headphone jack I would have gone ahead, but I decided to wait until I figure out how I'll switch my current CCK-based uses to USB-C. I'm also slightly worried about the square edges being uncomfortable to hold. The chamfered edge of the last gen really bothered me without a case. I wish they just used the current iPhone curves.

>
Curves won’t take the new Pencil to snap on to its edges. The new design is also good for USB-C and to offer some new style and differentiate from prior models for a change.

Apple may go with the new edge design on their future iPhones too when they introduce USB-C on them

MobileMusic

@Jmcmillan said:
something like this maybe
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/USBCHub-4--startech-4-port-usb-c-hub-usb-c-to-1x-usb-c-and-3x-usb-a

EEEEWW!! It doesn't have rounded corners and it is not white

david_2017

@MobileMusic said:

@Jmcmillan said:
something like this maybe
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/USBCHub-4--startech-4-port-usb-c-hub-usb-c-to-1x-usb-c-and-3x-usb-a

EEEEWW!! It doesn't have rounded corners

Don’t think that will work. It’s not white and not mfapple. They may change the usb c to something that is sort of crippled or so

[Deleted User]

While I liked what I've seen yesterday, I'll probably pass this one.
If my Air2 dies tomorrow I'll probably replace it with a pro2 10.5 - it's powerful enough, stays relevant for couple more years, no need to experiment with new hubs and stuff.
By the time that would become obsolete, there will be known solutions for everything these new gen iPads require, and there will be even more powerful iPad, even secondhand.

[Deleted User]

@difuzer said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:
‘Up in arms’ is just hyperbole. People are concerned about the single USB-C and the dropping of the headphones socket for many reasons. It is concern and not’up in arms’. Here’s a few reasons:

1. A single doit all jack on a Pro device is asking for trouble. It’s all eggs in one socket basket. Two USB-C ports would have been sensible in a Pro device.

2. It’s still early days, but having USB-C does not mean that Apple will let you use that socket for all the things that you would (rightly) expect to use it for on a laptop. Already there are reports this may be the case. So, just because it’s a USB-C socket, don’t expect it’s going to be any better than how Apple have treated us with cables all of a sudden not working after an update.

3. My experience of Apples cables and dongles are that they are extremely expensive for their level of quality. My look at the selection of dongles and cables newly released is that they are not yet covering all use scenarios well enough, unless we are able to use some of those other solutions already on the market (see 2 as to why this Amy not be so).

4. One of the major benefits of a portable device is minimising extraneous parts hanging on. One USB-C socket is less likely to help afford other manufacturers clear and easy thoughts on how this can best be achieved. Already many manufacturers ignore the iPad hardware add on market as they have been bitten in the past (Apple changing sockets is not new, but keeping up with what and how you can use that socket as well, makes them cautious).

5. Apple could have promoted iPad music making, putting another nail in the coffin that iPads are not serious music making tools. They did little towards this. As music makers, we care for our hobby first and care little for Apple having to appease gamers with wow look at the detail on this basketballer. Showing that they can have Photoshop and graphically intensive games won’t keep us believing that they can’t make a high end DAW for iOS. They have the money and ability, but it obviously does not rank highly enough with their money making plans as yet.

6. The shows themselves are becoming very similar to the video piss takes on you tube. Apple play this psychological game to create as much hyperbole around their new products as possible while they often drip feed tech at continually higher prices. They are masters at making money - problem is they are showing all companies how to do it - soon that choice people talk about will be gone as you will have to be locked into someone’s system to such a degree that choice no longer becomes relevant.

7. All the above and more often leaves people with a nasty taste of being manipulated and used - which in this society we surely are anyway, but I won’t go there. It’s perfectly normal to kick back on occasion. Most of us know the tricks these companies play, but they are all the same, so little choice is out there. So, let us have a little kick. It will surely (as we know) make little difference, but may help us feel a little better in the long term. If however after having your say, you should feel the need to have a little jibe at anyone who is not over the moon because...’Apple’, then just let us all relax in the knowledge that it doesn’t really matter how much hyperbole is thrown at discussion of Apple products - very few instances of any discussion have ever changed any company plans. In fact, I can only think of the PS4 vs XBox One thing lol

I won’t vote because the choices are too finite. I’m likely to upgrade an iPad one day, or not....all depends on lots of life things and I doubt Apple will sway me much one way or the other at the moment, as I don’t think I’m high up on their demographic love list

1. Valid point, maybe in the future but this is the first revision of a new lineup so only time will tell.

2. Also very true, but with Apple's own voiced self-interest of making the Pro lines "viable" laptop alternatives I don't see them stonewalling connections any more than the current iteration of using CCK's and other add-ons.

3-4. No arguing that, however, 3rd party options have been viable alternatives so I expect to see more compatible USB-C accessories in the future.

5. Apple is touting the Photoshop push because of a partnership with Adobe. An omission of audio programs at this time isn't a solid "nail in the coffin" to music productivity. Just because they shine light on one feature doesn't mean the others are neglected. Apple has been pushing Auv3 development which shows their interest in iOS devices for music production. While pure speculation still currently, I wouldn't put it past Apple to do a version of Logic for mobile (Even if it ONLY ran on Pro level devices, etc. Obviously this is a pipe dream.)

6-7. I do not believe Apple is out to manipulate it's customer base, as much as some might think. Any OS you use is inherently going to "lock you in" to a certain degree, this is not unique to Apple. It's not to say customer feedback doesn't help foster change. (See new Macbook butterfly switches that are garbage. Apple realized this and has silently been updating them since.) But will yelling into the void that people want minor port changes to sway Apple's design? Not likely. However, the same can be said for Google or Microsoft.

2. I definetly wouldn’t say their current iteration lends much in the way of positivity towards what the future may bring. Hope I’m wrong.

3. Hope you are right. Hope any released remain viable alternatives too.

4. It’s easyto see why they figure head Adobe. That however does not take away from the fact they could have created a figure head for music on iOS, but as I said, this is most likely a monetary cued consideration as the whole marketing and design seems very much with graphics in mind more than music IMO. They are a business and sure they know it well. As I say, I know I’m not high up in their demographic target market and I wished I was. The fact is there is little choice or alternatives to iOS for a mobile music making sense unless you have the funds to pay out a lot at once. I don’t see this market as the most sustainable though, so eventually something will change (most likely my buying habits).

5. I have no doubt the power behind Apple are only interested in money and will push the other ranks and manipulate in any way they will make more money quicker. I do believe that lower in the ranks there are many talents fighting on a daily basis to push the products forward. As a low ranking demographic though, the product will never be wholly a comfortable fit for music. It’s just the best of the lot at this time for myself, hence me using it

[Deleted User]

Stupid numbers keep changing arrrgh

supadom

@david_2017 said:
I just watched the keynote and I am shocked in which direction the prices at Apple develop. This is intense... first iPhones now iPads. Who can afford a device like that (and we know the iPad will not and have not substituted a notebook).
I bought an iPad Pro 10.5 256GB for 829,- before they changed the prices (in June 2016 I think). Now iPad means 1049€ which is an increase of more than 200€. Wow

There is a trade war between the US and China, and Apple, just like any other big corporation would, is passing the cost onto the customers. If we all suddenly (not going to happen) stopped using their new products you'd see a power shift. As it stands, first world problems will remain such. Especially with Apple having the monopoly on the mobile music market with Android platform fragmentation etc. They can hire the brightest minds to guide them what they can and cannot afford to do. So far they've been pretty on target.

See IPhone X? Everyone said it was overpriced and look how many they've shifted. Do you think after this they will have any doubt about keeping those prices high? No way. They cook, we consume. Period.

greengrocer

@supadom said:

@david_2017 said:
I just watched the keynote and I am shocked in which direction the prices at Apple develop. This is intense... first iPhones now iPads. Who can afford a device like that (and we know the iPad will not and have not substituted a notebook).
I bought an iPad Pro 10.5 256GB for 829,- before they changed the prices (in June 2016 I think). Now iPad means 1049€ which is an increase of more than 200€. Wow

There is a trade war between the US and China, and Apple, just like any other big corporation would, is passing the cost onto the customers. If we all suddenly (not going to happen) stopped using their new products you'd see a power shift. As it stands, first world problems will remain such. Especially with Apple having the monopoly on the mobile music market with Android platform fragmentation etc. They can hire the brightest minds to guide them what they can and cannot afford to do. So far they've been pretty on target.

See IPhone X? Everyone said it was overpriced and look how many they've shifted. Do you think after this they will have any doubt about keeping those prices high? No way. They cook, we consume. Period.

The thing is that I picked up in the other new iPad Pro threads is that quite a few people at Audiobus are not satisfied the direction Apple is going, especially looking at pricepoints and shifts away from things as 3.5mm plug. Agree with your oint that in the end most of the unsatisfied are just going on using and buying Apple stuff, and not only because it's that good. In the end we can ask ourselves do we want to go along with the new technology driven market that renews for renewings sake. In the music world we saw in the past several revolutions, probably one of the greatest was that digital equipment and midi were the presented as cool and new and must haves for de Pro musician. But see what happened some musicians picked up the old and obsolete analog stuff for a few bucks and started a revolution. 303, 808 or 909 anyone?

JRSIV

I look at this as a great time to get the current (until these new iPad's are released in November at least) iPad Pro 10.5 or 12.9 on sale. I have had my Air 2 since Feb. 2015 and haven't had a CPU issue on my sessions, so the gear obsessed need to have the latest & greatest that I usually get isn't popping up after the news of the new Pro's.

Yes the power & extra RAM sounds great but there's a Moore's Law diminishing returns element going on these past few years of upgrades to the iPad hardware.

If I get a new 2017/2018 10.5 or 12.9 iPad for a discount I'm not only saving money but I keep all of my connections with the CCK, etc and will have a headphone jack too (I don't really use the on board headphone jack much but I'd like to have it rather than not.)

So to me this weeks Apple announcement is both interesting and in a weird way, calming. I can live with a newer iPad Pro quite well and just don't feel this great need to get the latest & greatest Nov 2018 super slim iPad.

How much power do you need? If you're on a 9.7 Pro that's a few years old & your sessions are spiking, then yeah, you may need the new cut. But if you're operating fine with what you have...do you really need 6GB RAM and USB-C equipped new Pro?

aquasloth

I’m disappointed with the removal of the headphone jack on the new iPad pros (doesn’t seem necessary to me) and the switch to USB-C is perplexing also; I foresee a lot of issues with USB hardware suddenly not working with USB (hardware end) to USB-C adapters (iPad end), because, you know, Apple.

I got a used 2017 10.5 Pro for almost half-price due to a TINY crack that I can live with, and I figure I’m just going to keep using that until it dies, at which point I may just get another 2017 model. Unless Apple ups their development game and makes their creative software (GarageBand, iMovie, etc) powerful enough that an upgrade is necessary.

But let’s be honest, Apple won’t do that. They’re in the business of consumer electronics and making everything smaller, lighter, and more expensive. They’re not (or no longer in) the business of upgrading tools for creators.

gkillmaster

I find good points here. Mainly in the test of the article, not necessarily the video:
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/10/31/18043062/apple-usb-c-ipad-pro-strategy-iphone-macbook-port-dongle

[Deleted User]

I think the latest Sonic Talk is interesting with regards to the new Apple products

supadom

@greengrocer said:

@supadom said:

@david_2017 said:
I just watched the keynote and I am shocked in which direction the prices at Apple develop. This is intense... first iPhones now iPads. Who can afford a device like that (and we know the iPad will not and have not substituted a notebook).
I bought an iPad Pro 10.5 256GB for 829,- before they changed the prices (in June 2016 I think). Now iPad means 1049€ which is an increase of more than 200€. Wow

There is a trade war between the US and China, and Apple, just like any other big corporation would, is passing the cost onto the customers. If we all suddenly (not going to happen) stopped using their new products you'd see a power shift. As it stands, first world problems will remain such. Especially with Apple having the monopoly on the mobile music market with Android platform fragmentation etc. They can hire the brightest minds to guide them what they can and cannot afford to do. So far they've been pretty on target.

See IPhone X? Everyone said it was overpriced and look how many they've shifted. Do you think after this they will have any doubt about keeping those prices high? No way. They cook, we consume. Period.

The thing is that I picked up in the other new iPad Pro threads is that quite a few people at Audiobus are not satisfied the direction Apple is going, especially looking at pricepoints and shifts away from things as 3.5mm plug. Agree with your oint that in the end most of the unsatisfied are just going on using and buying Apple stuff, and not only because it's that good. In the end we can ask ourselves do we want to go along with the new technology driven market that renews for renewings sake. In the music world we saw in the past several revolutions, probably one of the greatest was that digital equipment and midi were the presented as cool and new and must haves for de Pro musician. But see what happened some musicians picked up the old and obsolete analog stuff for a few bucks and started a revolution. 303, 808 or 909 anyone?

Yep, that's their business model. When you buy bread or milk you replenish every other day. If it is white goods it used to be few decades but now is getting tighter. Same with the electronics. Yes, I’m talking about built in absolescence but not on a technological level but more about something that’s become a part of our psyche. We’re being entrained like rats. Anyone who’s ever tried giving up smoking knows that the patches alone won’t be enough because you need the conviction and will power. You need to understand what is that thing that makes you crave (at least in my experience).

Of course the experience is nice. It’s supposed feel nice so we want more of it. The middle aged man with bleached smile telling you how amazing and awesome this thing is. This is car salesmanship on hypersteroids. It feels good, it’s green, it is eco conscious it is bleached clean with satin, rounded edges.....you can talk to it before going to bed and when you wake up. It’s great and even if you don’t want it the YOU that has the disposable income wants it.

I’ve just listened for the 3rd time to this great podcast about sleep.

This is probably what made me so philoanalitical in my post. Ah well, planned absolescence, short cycles, fake news, nothing new...we’re used to it...back to my spinning wheel.

richardyot

@supadom said:
I’ve just listened for the 3rd time to this great podcast about sleep.

That podcast is awesome - I loved it so much I went and bought Matthew Walker's book, which I highly recommend.

mrcanister

Vivo X5 Max – 4.75 mm with headphone socket!!
whats the new pro - 6.1mm....could get a shopping trolley thru that.
seems reason enough to bemoan o_O

Gaia.Tree

My hands were hovering over the “sell all your hardware and go ios only” button, but have firmly duct taped that button stuck shut , and now I’m at the “buy the cheapest iPad you can when the current one starts sucking, and buy more dedicated hardware” button. It’s a way more cozy button

Sure my SP is huge, aged and limited in many ways, but damn if it doesn’t just work every single time I turn it on

[Deleted User]

@Gaia.Tree said:
My hands were hovering over the “sell all your hardware and go ios only” button, but have firmly duct taped that button stuck shut , and now I’m at the “buy the cheapest iPad you can when the current one starts sucking, and buy more dedicated hardware” button. It’s a way more cozy button

Sure my SP is huge, aged and limited in many ways, but damn if it doesn’t just work every single time I turn it on

Period.

Carnbot

I think USB-C is another step towards genuine pro use for the ipad and is going to be a great help when combining with other non Apple equipment. Yeah I would like to see two ports, and maybe we'll see that on later models but for pro audio use I'd only use the lightning port and never the headphone jack anyway.

I would like a headphone jack but it's a really small inconvenience in comparison to the benefits of usb-c.
With this you don't have to buy lightning only hardware (eg my Rode ixy lightning) which has been really annoying previously.

Two steps forward, one back. But still forward

Igneous1

Wouldn’t touch this new one - what are they thinking ?

The price is outrageous as are the storage options prices. May possibly pick up a pro 10.5 at some point, but to be frank, I can’t really see me spending any more on iOS music making, when I can work far more efficiently on the desktop.

cyberheater

I’ve just listened for the 3rd time to this great podcast about sleep.

Thanks for that. Very interesting.

MobileMusic

Apple should sell SmartCase and SmartCover for the new Pros - not just the bulky Folio keyboard case.

Liquidmantis

@MobileMusic said:
Apple should sell SmartCase and SmartCover for the new Pros - not just the bulky Folio keyboard case.

There's a Smart Cover... for $100.

MobileMusic

@Liquidmantis said:

@MobileMusic said:
Apple should sell SmartCase and SmartCover for the new Pros - not just the bulky Folio keyboard case.

There's a Smart Cover... for $100.

SmartCase is desired for full-body front and back protection.