BM3 hotfix records midi AUv3 (I guess not, but I’m sure I saw it!?)

Turntablist

@OscarSouth said:

@Littlewoodg said:
At least it’s able to record audio from the Rozeta midi driven tracks

Yeah. I actually see a lot of good in the new method myself, and most of the lost additional functionality can be achieved by working with additional apps.

I posted my opinions on it in the other thread but I noticed that it has been sunk, so I’ll quote the relevant section here:

Specifically with regard to the MIDI AU implementation, I completely get why people are wound up over the changes, but honestly it felt much better designed and more creative in a practical sense in the current implementation. It works like a MIDI EFFECT (MIDI in, different MIDI out), which is totally logical and intuitive. For example, Rozeta generators can really be thought of as MIDI effects -- they take in MIDI which specifies things like key, active pattern etc. and output pattern data. So, pattern/scenes/timeline in BM3 is simply what instructions the Rozeta instances needed to generate the performance. Playback is perfect! After that, it's really easy to print the audio output onto an audio track (which works perfectly with almost no setup). It's a great workflow and you can even see on the pads screen, what notes the Rozeta modules are outputting, which is really cool! We've heard word from the source that it'll be possible in the future to print directly to MIDI, which actually doesn't really make sense to me unless it was printing to a separate ‘post fx’ MIDI lane that bypasses the MIDI AU -- otherwise the MIDI AU's track itself will play back incorrectly after it has been printed into the lane containing it's own control information.

While I did have some stability issues and problems with re-loading a session, I have absolutely zero issues with the design decisions taken by the BM3 team!

In discussion on the BM3 forum, it has been observed that the only Rozeta module that doesn’t fit this workflow is LFOs. This could theoretically be remedied if that module had an option to pass MIDI-Thru data (so a MIDI performance would go in, same performance with the specified CCs replaced with LFO data would come out).

I’m sure the situation with MIDI AUs generating random data that people want to edit later is a sore spot too — that’s a very platform specific issue somewhat, due to the unusually high amount of love for random note generators on iOS. Still, the possibility of pre/post fx lanes in the future (or an equivalent solution) could remedy that.

I think it’s a good enough implementation for now. Hopefully in the future the app as a whole will be fine tuned and this implementation expanded on to build out from the current state as well as allow apps like perforator to use their full functionality.

It is MIDI AU support, not just Rozeta support, the new way may be great for Rozeta, try using Perforators MIDI out by the same developer, or FAC envolver, or just try and use any AU synth or effect that generates MIDI, people aren't complaining just to complain, one user installed the update, and with zero warning at all, non of his projects worked anymore.
It is great that this new method works for one or two people, on the various social platforms it is very obvious that is not the case for the majority of users, this change will be reverted or it will damage Beatmakers reputation and userbase, if Vincent can't do it they may have to get a different developer who can.

OscarSouth

@Turntablist said:

@OscarSouth said:

@Littlewoodg said:
At least it’s able to record audio from the Rozeta midi driven tracks

Yeah. I actually see a lot of good in the new method myself, and most of the lost additional functionality can be achieved by working with additional apps.

I posted my opinions on it in the other thread but I noticed that it has been sunk, so I’ll quote the relevant section here:

Specifically with regard to the MIDI AU implementation, I completely get why people are wound up over the changes, but honestly it felt much better designed and more creative in a practical sense in the current implementation. It works like a MIDI EFFECT (MIDI in, different MIDI out), which is totally logical and intuitive. For example, Rozeta generators can really be thought of as MIDI effects -- they take in MIDI which specifies things like key, active pattern etc. and output pattern data. So, pattern/scenes/timeline in BM3 is simply what instructions the Rozeta instances needed to generate the performance. Playback is perfect! After that, it's really easy to print the audio output onto an audio track (which works perfectly with almost no setup). It's a great workflow and you can even see on the pads screen, what notes the Rozeta modules are outputting, which is really cool! We've heard word from the source that it'll be possible in the future to print directly to MIDI, which actually doesn't really make sense to me unless it was printing to a separate ‘post fx’ MIDI lane that bypasses the MIDI AU -- otherwise the MIDI AU's track itself will play back incorrectly after it has been printed into the lane containing it's own control information.

While I did have some stability issues and problems with re-loading a session, I have absolutely zero issues with the design decisions taken by the BM3 team!

In discussion on the BM3 forum, it has been observed that the only Rozeta module that doesn’t fit this workflow is LFOs. This could theoretically be remedied if that module had an option to pass MIDI-Thru data (so a MIDI performance would go in, same performance with the specified CCs replaced with LFO data would come out).

I’m sure the situation with MIDI AUs generating random data that people want to edit later is a sore spot too — that’s a very platform specific issue somewhat, due to the unusually high amount of love for random note generators on iOS. Still, the possibility of pre/post fx lanes in the future (or an equivalent solution) could remedy that.

I think it’s a good enough implementation for now. Hopefully in the future the app as a whole will be fine tuned and this implementation expanded on to build out from the current state as well as allow apps like perforator to use their full functionality.

It is MIDI AU support, not just Rozeta support, the new way may be great for Rozeta, try using Perforators MIDI out by the same developer, or FAC envolver, or just try and use any AU synth or effect that generates MIDI, people aren't complaining just to complain, one user installed the update, and with zero warning at all, non of his projects worked anymore.
It is great that this new method works for one or two people, on the various social platforms it is very obvious that is not the case for the majority of users, this change will be reverted or it will damage Beatmakers reputation and userbase, if Vincent can't do it they may have to get a different developer who can.

It’ll definitely be cool when deeper functionality for audio effects with MIDI output is implemented. They do actually function already, just not that flexibly yet.

Also, remember that the user base of the app is a whoooole lot more than the people shouting about it here and on Twitter, and people are much more vocal with negative feedback in general. It’s understandable that there’s a bit of pain in progress, but we need to remember that it’s probably us who are the niche use case. I’m sure that a lot of people were very happy with the changes and are silently making a lot of noise with the updated functionality right now!!

OscarSouth

@brambos said:

@OscarSouth said:
In discussion on the BM3 forum, it has been observed that the only Rozeta module that doesn’t fit this workflow is LFOs. This could theoretically be remedied if that module had an option to pass MIDI-Thru data (so a MIDI performance would go in, same performance with the specified CCs replaced with LFO data would come out).

That's on my list. I'm going to add MIDI Thru to LFO and XY.

That’s awesome — i’m looking forward to using that. Forgot about XY actually, that’s an interesting one as it requires constant user control rather than being deterministic. It’ll be incredibly useful for writing in automation once they add that functionally to AU MIDI effects (I believe that’s been ‘confirmed’ to be coming).

While Intua’s decision has been controversial, I love how the Rozeta suite functions in BM3 these days. It’s incredibly quick, interactive, performative and painless to build up Rozeta-centric compositions very quickly now. It’s sped up my sketching process loads and has been very enjoyable to work in this way.

Turntablist

Actually social networks tend to be a microcosm of the entire userbase, and the "Complainers are always louder" thing is simply not true either.
If either of those were not the case, companies would not think that social networking sites are important, which they very much do.
We can safely say in this instance that the changes are generally disliked by the majority of the user base.
Expect it to be reverted

Korakios

@OscarSouth said:

@brambos said:

@OscarSouth said:
In discussion on the BM3 forum, it has been observed that the only Rozeta module that doesn’t fit this workflow is LFOs. This could theoretically be remedied if that module had an option to pass MIDI-Thru data (so a MIDI performance would go in, same performance with the specified CCs replaced with LFO data would come out).

That's on my list. I'm going to add MIDI Thru to LFO and XY.

That’s awesome — i’m looking forward to using that. Forgot about XY actually, that’s an interesting one as it requires constant user control rather than being deterministic. It’ll be incredibly useful for writing in automation once they add that functionally to AU MIDI effects (I believe that’s been ‘confirmed’ to be coming).

While Intua’s decision has been controversial, I love how the Rozeta suite functions in BM3 these days. It’s incredibly quick, interactive, performative and painless to build up Rozeta-centric compositions very quickly now. It’s sped up my sketching process loads and has been very enjoyable to work in this way.

BM3 is more simple to use now , but the current routing doesn’t fit my needs .
I’d prefer driving the AU midi with the keyboard (or other selectable source) and leave the pads as they where (now I can’t manually trigger them) and be able to route midi out to other track(s) so I could record the final/post midi jam .
Adding midi thru in Rozeta is great ,but in case of BM3 it will complicate things ....

brambos

@Korakios said:
Adding midi thru in Rozeta is great ,but in case of BM3 it will complicate things ....

Could you explain how it will complicate things? I may be able to work around the complication..

Korakios

@brambos said:

@Korakios said:
Adding midi thru in Rozeta is great ,but in case of BM3 it will complicate things ....

Could you explain how it will complicate things? I may be able to work around the complication..

Mostly if midi routing will change with option for post recording .
As it is now it might help for lfo,xy since currently BM3's pads produce no sound.
If midi thru will be an option that can be turned on/off ,everything will be fine

[Deleted User]

@intua_vincent
After next update, when AU midi recording is supposed to be back will it be possible to drive external hardware with AU midi?

StudioES

I'd like to have MIDI Thru on all MIDI AUs, so that BM3 Patterns and Rozeta can simultaneously play one instrument, i.e.-a basic kick+snare BM3 pattern along with Rozeta playing 7/15-step hats+percussion with Mutation. The result is never static, especially if you are changing BM3 Patterns on the fly.

I guess in Rozeta we would need to disable transpose and pattern change over MIDI so that the BM3 Patterns can play thru without changing Rozeta.

Korakios

@recccp said:
@intua_vincent
After next update, when AU midi recording is supposed to be back will it be possible to drive external hardware with AU midi?

That would require midi routing which the dev hasn’t mentioned anything ....

@ocelot said:
I'd like to have MIDI Thru on all MIDI AUs, so that BM3 Patterns and Rozeta can simultaneously play one instrument, i.e.-a basic kick+snare BM3 pattern along with Rozeta playing 7/15-step hats+percussion with Mutation. The result is never static, especially if you are changing BM3 Patterns on the fly.

I guess in Rozeta we would need to disable transpose and pattern change over MIDI so that the BM3 Patterns can play thru without changing Rozeta.

And this is an example that midi thru might complicate things . It depends mostly on how BM3 will handle midi routing.
I don’t think that @brambos or other midi AU developer ,have to update their apps because of Intua .

[Deleted User]

@Korakios said:

@recccp said:
@intua_vincent
After next update, when AU midi recording is supposed to be back will it be possible to drive external hardware with AU midi?

That would require midi routing which the dev hasn’t mentioned anything ....

@ocelot said:
I'd like to have MIDI Thru on all MIDI AUs, so that BM3 Patterns and Rozeta can simultaneously play one instrument, i.e.-a basic kick+snare BM3 pattern along with Rozeta playing 7/15-step hats+percussion with Mutation. The result is never static, especially if you are changing BM3 Patterns on the fly.

I guess in Rozeta we would need to disable transpose and pattern change over MIDI so that the BM3 Patterns can play thru without changing Rozeta.

And this is an example that midi thru might complicate things . It depends mostly on how BM3 will handle midi routing.
I don’t think that @brambos or other midi AU developer ,have to update their apps because of Intua .

Actually he did mention the routing in the thread now closed - it's not going to happen because of the latency introduced.
AU midi recording is coming, which I assume will require some work around the current implementation on their part. I'm just curious if that work around will make it possible to drive external synths as well.

Korakios

@recccp said:

@Korakios said:

@recccp said:
@intua_vincent
After next update, when AU midi recording is supposed to be back will it be possible to drive external hardware with AU midi?

That would require midi routing which the dev hasn’t mentioned anything ....

@ocelot said:
I'd like to have MIDI Thru on all MIDI AUs, so that BM3 Patterns and Rozeta can simultaneously play one instrument, i.e.-a basic kick+snare BM3 pattern along with Rozeta playing 7/15-step hats+percussion with Mutation. The result is never static, especially if you are changing BM3 Patterns on the fly.

I guess in Rozeta we would need to disable transpose and pattern change over MIDI so that the BM3 Patterns can play thru without changing Rozeta.

And this is an example that midi thru might complicate things . It depends mostly on how BM3 will handle midi routing.
I don’t think that @brambos or other midi AU developer ,have to update their apps because of Intua .

Actually he did mention the routing in the thread now closed - it's not going to happen because of the latency introduced.
AU midi recording is coming, which I assume will require some work around the current implementation on their part. I'm just curious if that work around will make it possible to drive external synths as well.

Well , I don’t use BM3 anymore , also left the forum, too slow development. There should already be a beta iPhone version and there was even a desktop version planned.
But still , we are talking about basic stuff, workarounds ,not to mention bugs left , after more than a year..... I don’t think new features (at least the most requested by hardcore users) will ever come .

Turntablist

Might be best not to engage developers about features they may or may not implement for their MIDI AU when working in BM3 then.

AudioGus

@recccp said:

@Korakios said:

@recccp said:
@intua_vincent
After next update, when AU midi recording is supposed to be back will it be possible to drive external hardware with AU midi?

That would require midi routing which the dev hasn’t mentioned anything ....

@ocelot said:
I'd like to have MIDI Thru on all MIDI AUs, so that BM3 Patterns and Rozeta can simultaneously play one instrument, i.e.-a basic kick+snare BM3 pattern along with Rozeta playing 7/15-step hats+percussion with Mutation. The result is never static, especially if you are changing BM3 Patterns on the fly.

I guess in Rozeta we would need to disable transpose and pattern change over MIDI so that the BM3 Patterns can play thru without changing Rozeta.

And this is an example that midi thru might complicate things . It depends mostly on how BM3 will handle midi routing.
I don’t think that @brambos or other midi AU developer ,have to update their apps because of Intua .

Actually he did mention the routing in the thread now closed - it's not going to happen because of the latency introduced.
AU midi recording is coming, which I assume will require some work around the current implementation on their part. I'm just curious if that work around will make it possible to drive external synths as well.

I think this was already posted around, maybe this thread, but it looks quite handy...

RouteMIDI by Brian Howarth
https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/routemidi/id1347099452?mt=8