Patreon - Bye

[Deleted User]

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wim

By whom? And how?

Mull

And i would refer to Poppers paradox of tolerance when talking about this stuff. Standing up for the free speech of people making inflammatory, patently false horseshit statements and rape jokes is not the hill I’m prepared to die on. Contribute something positive to the body politic in good faith or jog on. Otherwise say what you want but at least face the consequences and stop being a whining pussy about being ‘censored’.

[Deleted User]

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CRAKROX

@Mull said:
@MonzoPro all of that is true but no law exists protecting that status. They are subject to the vagaries of the free market and prevailing public opinion as much as any other company. If the alt right wants to build a platform to rival FB, Twitter etc where they can spout their bollocks and deplatform those they don’t agree with then there is nothing preventing them doing that but they would rather wail about censorship, assume the hairshirt of victim hood and circlejerk about how oppressed they are. They aren’t oppressed, the rest of us just don’t want to hear their nonsensical whining and that’s reflected in the public positions taken by these companies when they kick them off their platforms. The majority of us just don’t want to hear that shit 😂

BINGO !!!

This sums it up completely the simple fact is THEY ARE NOT BEING CENSORED.

The irony is that they cry on and on about it whilst having the front to call others “snowflakes” .

It’s genuinely pathetic.

wim

@tja said:

@wim said:
By whom? And how?

By the government and laws, of course.
I don't like too much laws and much control of the government, but companies got by way too much freedom and should be controlled more closely.
The same happened with banks.
No bank would ever think about blocking single customers because of their political ideas, as this would be illegal.
Why can Patreon do so?
It should not be allowed.

I was afraid you were going to say that.
Oh help.

Y’all have fun here. I’m just gonna go now...

Mull

@wim oh yes....that’s what I hear them screaming for now...government intervention. There’s not enough irony in the world 😂

yowza

I was going to mention the paradox of tolerance which seems very relevant nowadays. “Free” hate speech is still hate speech.
Jordan Peterson is a pseudo intellectual waste of time.

Mull

Anyway...anyone know when SM Player AU is coming out? Anyone got an update on how the beta is coming along? 😊

CRAKROX

@Norbert said:

@CRAKROX said:

@Norbert said:
I quit patreon too. Can't stand deplatforming out of politics. It's not their job. They should stick to what their service is supposed to be and not verse into things out of scope.

So if someone set up a Patreon to fund ISIS or some similar organisation you’d be ok with that ?

It's not Patreon which has to decide whether it's good or not. That's the thing. The fact Isis is receiving money through them has to be proven first and it's not their job. They can't just arbitrary decide 'this thing is good and this thing is bad' without solid proof and the department of justice involved. And it's definitely not what they are doing right now. They deplatform people who did abide to their terms of service out of politics. This is dirty business and it has to stop.

@Norbert said:

@CRAKROX said:

@Norbert said:

It's not Patreon which has to decide whether it's good or not. That's the thing. The fact Isis is receiving money through them has to be proven first and it's not their job. They can't just arbitrary decide 'this thing is good and this thing is bad' without solid proof and the department of justice involved. And it's definitely not what they are doing right now. They deplatform people who did abide to their terms of service out of politics. This is dirty business and it has to stop.

A : You didn’t answer my question.

B : They can and obviously will do whatever they wish as a private company within the law. Surely you are not condoning state control of the media and business a la North Korea or the old U.S.S.R.

CRAKROX

@Michael_R_Grant said:
I fully support Patreon kicking absolute dickheads off their service. That some people would choose to then boycott the service says a lot about their own views...

Well said !

[Deleted User]

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yowza

@Mull said:
Anyway...anyone know when SM Player AU is coming out? Anyone got an update on how the beta is coming along? 😊

Not sure when it comes out but the latest AU beta is working great so far. I haven’t had time to really push it.

richardyot

I find the intolerance for alternative viewpoints a little depressing really. Sargon is not a Nazi, not even close to being in that kind of territory. I find a lot of his stuff to be trollish clickbait, some of which is definitely designed to rile people, but he can also be thoughtful and nuanced when he chooses to be.

This interview with Brendon O Neil is a thoughtful discussion, and even if you disagree with much of what they say, you can't seriously accuse them of being Alt-Right nazis/nationalists or whatever:

The list of people who are accused of being alt-right for no good reason just grows longer by the day: PewDiePie, Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin, Ben Shapiro etc... It's ridiculous. These are people with diverse and nuanced views and it's silly to just lump them in "baddie" category just because you don't agree with them. I disagree with probably 99% of what Ben Shapiro says but I still don't think he's a Nazi or a racist.

FWIW I find it equally annoying when the right screams "Venezuela" when someone like Ocasio-Cortez promotes Universal Healthcare. The whole level of name-calling as debate is childish.

[Deleted User]

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Michael_R_Grant

@tja said:
And to compare: Banks are also private companies, but their are obliged to offer their service to all people and companies. They cannot choose!

Yes they can. People and companies are turned down for bank accounts all the time.

Mull

@yowza thanks mate! Can’t wait, by far my most used synth. With DRC going AU and Synthmaster coming up it must be Christmas !

[Deleted User]

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CRAKROX

@tja said:
I realy cannot comment on the contents of those banned people.
But as long as this content is not illegal, it should not be allowed to removed their Patreon accounts.
That simple human rights.

Having access to patreonis isn’t a human right, it’s simply a convient way for then to collect funding from the neckbeards who support them so that the said neckbeards do not need to leave their parents basement to make the transaction.
They can still for example collect direct bank payments or even have cash/cheques mailed to them, to claim censorship over this is dishonest and is a simple attempt to portray them selves as crusading martyrs.

Michael_R_Grant

@tja said:
I realy cannot comment on the contents of those banned people.
But as long as this content is not illegal, it should not be allowed to removed their Patreon accounts.
That simple human rights.

A private company can serve or not serve whoever the hell it wants to.

I'm an accountant. If Donald Trump wants me to do his accounts, I'm 100% within my 'human rights' to tell him to piss off.

Michael_R_Grant

@tja said:

@Michael_R_Grant said:

@tja said:
And to compare: Banks are also private companies, but their are obliged to offer their service to all people and companies. They cannot choose!

Yes they can.

Not in good old Europe, the land of freedom.

I'm in Europe, and I'm an accountant so deal with banks all the time. Yes they can. You're wrong.

[Deleted User]

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[Deleted User]

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Mull

@richardyot no ones calling them nazis, we calling them chafingly annoying dickheads who we as a collective whole don’t want to hear whining and spreading stupidity among the gullible. Company’s reflect the wishes of the majority of customers, Patreon are just mirroring the majority view. They are free to go elsewhere, no ones stopping them. It’s like the right wing boycott of Facebook and Twitter , they convinced themselves those platforms would just collapse if they left...and what happened? Bugger all happened...they way overestimate their economic impact. Again...no one is stopping them or anyone else going elsewhere. Why people feel the need to announce they leaving like it matters at all is beyond me.

richardyot

It's actually completely bizarre that any left-winger would want to give away control of discourse and the dissemination of ideas to a bunch of multinational corporations. Joined-up thinking, this is not.

wim

@tja said:
You give wayyyyyy to much might and control into the hands of a private company.
Where shall that end?

Give? I thought they earned it.
Governments didnt give them the power, did they?
The only ones who give them the power are their customers. Their customers can take it away too by ceasing to be customers. No need for Government to do that.

You give wayyyy to much might and control into the hands of a Government.
Where will that end?

Aaagh. I hate myself for not walking away. I really am this time!

CRAKROX

@tja said:

@CRAKROX said:

@tja said:
I realy cannot comment on the contents of those banned people.
But as long as this content is not illegal, it should not be allowed to removed their Patreon accounts.
That simple human rights.

Having access to patreonis isn’t a human right, it’s simply a convient way for then to collect funding from the neckbeards who support them so that the said neckbeards do not need to leave their parents basement to make the transaction.
They can still for example collect direct bank payments or even have cash/cheques mailed to them, to claim censorship over this is dishonest and is a simple attempt to portray them selves as crusading martyrs.

It is simply not the job of a company to check and control what their customers do!
They offer a public service!

You give wayyyyyy to much might and control into the hands of a private company.
Where shall that end?

Think about what you’re saying.

Companies do this all the time, for example TUMBLR has just removed/shut down all their legal “adult content/porn” to allow them to access the Apple App Store.

[Deleted User]

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[Deleted User]

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CRAKROX

@richardyot said:
It's actually completely bizarre that any left-winger would want to give away control of discourse and the dissemination of ideas to a bunch of multinational corporations. Joined-up thinking, this is not.

They are not in control in any shape or form they are simply one part of a huge arena of communication.
The right is hysterically crying like they been banned from using computers.
As I’ve said it’s pathetic, I always thought the right/conservatives held the philosophy of “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” surely they should be organising alternatives instead of crying like babies who have had their dummy taken from them.