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Hope the above clarifies the intention of the OP a bit
Well said and nicely played devils advocate
I’m also not saying that many were seeing offence here, just reanalysing my OP more for the sake of clarification purposes than anything else
I tend to feel that many apps of late are biased towards the ‘dirty’, not that you can’t make most of them at least do some less dirty sounds. It’s not imo just about switching on or off a distortion, or the reverse would be true also - that you can easily add distortion to a clean sound often easier than trying to clean up many dirty sounds.
It’s my opinion that there is a bias towards the dirty sounds in apps and that apps are being made with this more at the forefront at this time. I’m not surprised, because this seems more fashionable these days and I bet these apps sell more than a flute app anyway.
Don’t get me wrong, I love a bit of dirt now and again. I use at least some in most tunes, but I would like to see more apps (especially those that are AU and sometimes not just sample banks) that push other choices to same degree. I can see that I’m well out of fashion at this time and that I do have choices, just not so much emphasis being made in that development at this time.
Would love to hear some taming of this beast
Yeah, I tried with Cyclops too, but finally came to the conclusion that while possible, I was tryin* to shape it into something where it’s main advantages where being curtailed by my actions. Also it’s easier to work with synths others have suggested
I’ve not managed to get what I want out of this syn5h yet. I love WaveMapper and can see and hear that Infinite has something special, I just haven’t managed to get to that special place while programming it. It is definitely my lack of skill with it, but I just end up with glassy cold with it, rather than the clean and soulful I’m after. One day I will crack it!
The ICE synths are without doubt some of the creative darlings on iOS. I have times when they are just right and subtle is the key imo to putting warmth into their sound without going too far down the dirty track lol
So, you feel a slight bias in trends towards the ‘dirty’ in apps too? While I do love some dirt on occasion, would love to see a few more devs tackle the opposite end of the spectrum beyond just sample banks. We do have some great sound sources, but it does seem to me that dirt is more in fashion these days
Interesting thoughts and I do appreciate your opinions and writing @Fruitbat1919 .
I guess I share your opinion on this mostly. I’ve often thought that a certain synth was geared towards dirt or grit, but then blamed myself for not having a clue as to how to program it. Which is usually the case.
I bought the new Elliot Garage synth. My first thought after playing it was this thread. But, then I recalled the first patch which is a sweet, theremin-like sound, something you might hear Donald Fagen come up with maybe. So my conclusion, at least in this synth is, that the sweetness is certainly in there, but maybe the presets shape the impression more towards “noise machine”.
Great thread.
I must say the workflow is a pain (and i use the desktop plug-in on a bigger screen).
Yes, I must agree. Undying admiration for PPG in general and Infinite in particular. But the un-resizable mod Matrix is the poster child for fiddly-ness. I would be grateful if PPG could give the matrix a zoom or its own page or something. Sounds amazing nonetheless.
Back on topic... something like Yonac’s Galileo 2 (currently on sale) would seem to be able to be as pure as the driven snow, while being able to add exactly the harmonics desired with the drawbars. And of course going wild with the options and effects will fuzz things up when necessary.
@Fruitbat1919 Curious about what synths you like most on iOS, and what specific direction you’d like to see more of.
(Question on the back of my mind: I’m actually not clear on what kinds of cleaner sounding synthesis options are most lacking on iOS. There’s the obvious physical modelling and hyper multi sampled acoustic instruments. Another thing that comes to mind is cleaner sounds with intricate/playable articulation - Roli noise has a lot of these, but they aren’t customizable. Are there directions you like in desktop/hardware/pre auv3 iOS that you’d like to see explored in auv3 form?)
@Fruitbat1919 : I am curious to know what synths capture the essence you are after, or which artists, and some of the synths that are "too dirty". I am still unclear whether the issue is what the synths are capable of or what the aesthetics of the sound designers that created the presets were.
I think you have a good handle on it. I don’t mind the sample based ideal, but the instruments that take the samples further with decent articulations are few on iOS. Sensual Sax, Jubal Flute etc are just really a start. The intelligent use of sample, synthesis, touch screen and clever programming to make really playable instruments and not only those that replicate. Even in AU form there are often disconnects, take for example one of my faves WaveMapper - my sounds use the XY of the keyboard in their playability, yet this is all wasted when using the AU, as the host keys then fail to make that playing possible.
I like Heavy Brass, but it isn’t fun as an ‘instrument’ to play - it’s design only works well for using its articulations in a planned and designed way.
Take some of the movement possibilities of Aparillo but clearly with the articulations of physical modelling and sample manipulation towards making really playable ‘instruments’, not just ‘sound’.
iOS touches on these things in many ways, but mostly in IAA apps that just don’t play well with others without the usual disconnects between playing and recording.
I want to see lots of new and exciting ways to use the touch screen to make going from a slow bowed violin to holding a fast pace of bowing throughout a song. Ways to blend the passions of a Sax with the wide scope of a synth, but keeping playability and recording at the same level of importance.
Nah... dirt all the way! (for me)
(Sorry for the plug!)
I will reply to this, but might take some time - at the moment I’m watching a film in full Xmas mode
The intelligent use of sample, synthesis, touch screen and clever programming to make really playable instruments and not only those that replicate. Even in AU form there are often disconnects, take for example one of my faves WaveMapper - my sounds use the XY of the keyboard in their playability, yet this is all wasted when using the AU, as the host keys then fail to make that playing possible.
Oh my, you got me there!! I guess, we need to give credit to GB and noise on that front, but there’s a blatant lack of more flexible tools that do anywhere as good a job with expressivity as eg the patches in noise.. Part of me suspects that the issues holding back releases along those lines have more to do with the current state of play with MPE and auv3 than with anything else.
For one thing, at this point in time it’s silly (imo) to even consider making this kind of synth without going for MPE compatibility. Roli and Apple are slowly getting enough mpe controllers into people’s hands for it to become a market worth catering to.
But then, (A) that market is still in its infancy, and it’s unclear how fast the growth will be. (Well, I’m sure it’s clear enough to apple and Roli.)
(B) Plainly, there’s a tremendous design challenge with implementing powerful expressive control without (1) doing all the mapping for the users or (2) making mapping either simplistic (Volt) or overly complex (just looking at mpe offerings on PC, it’s clear that there’s a tremendous design challenge in finding a balance between expressive power and workflow + ease of use.)
(C) The auv3 standard muddles things even further with lack of uniformity in midi implementation/functionality both on the side of hosts and plugins. Same with making use of the screen as an expressive surface. (Spacecraft is proof enough that integrating touch expression can be done with auv3.)
I’m sure there are people working on things we will like along those lines, but we are in a bit of a slump imo.
Yes, as in all things, the reasons for something are rarely one dimensional.
Whereas my initial thoughts were towards fashion of musical tendencies driving app development towards certain aspects of sound making, it’s obviously more dimensional than that.
All the points you made and many more forces are imo driving musical apps in certain directions more than others.
I think many changes will come where the type of apps I’ve discussed will open up market wise and then we will be spoilt for choice.
I’m not sure it’s fashion, is it that there is less to do for clean sounds so less interesting to a developer ?
It's right the opposite: a well defined clean tone is quite challenging in digital audio processing. The gritty stuff is more tolerant regarding programming flaws.
But the true challenge is a (really) convincing crappy tone.
Like this one:
https://valhalladsp.com/2010/05/14/stability-through-time-variation-ursa-major-space-station/
It's a piece of crap (from todays technical pov), but works magic on vocals.
Ahh yes I guess from a signal point of view it is harder to keep it clean during programming.
what @Telefunky says
Glitch music in part came from how "easy" it was to make clean DSP go wrong on 90's PCs! Let's not even go there, where did the 8 bit music on those 80's consoles come from? Not unrelated to the reason why the early DX and even CZ synths were expensive.
Likewise, rich sounding clean sounds are still taxing for modern devices. One simple example: aliasing in FM. The 80's FM sounds involved tons of aliasing. But nostalgia is far from the only reason digital fm synths are biting the aliasing bullet even on today's PCs. AFAIK Digital implementation of FM without audible aliasing is extremely taxing even by today's standards. Sure, FM is not the most user friendly technique, so lower demand might be slowing down innovation in that direction - compared to e.g. analogue modeled subtractive and analogue modeled guitar amps. But at the very least, anti-aliasing settings (as an option) would be more common in top of the line PC FM synths if it were less of a technical challenge..
Synths are overrated