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If BEHRINGER is wrong..........
......as in devoid of character or violated some unwritten rule of corporate morality......or some how cheated the original manufactures of synthesized instruments............
......well then......it would be a logical conclusion that person needs to stop using all the apps that provide affordable alternatives for the original hardware they are modeled after.
But, let’s just say the fallacy of demonizing BEHRINGER is in that they are really just talking the iOS model to the hardware platform.
And all of us users and or developers who enjoy these apps are just as guilty as BEHRINGER.
I think that is my conclusion.
I feel no guilt.
I appreciate all the apps and opportunities they give me to experience hardware I would never otherwise be able to.
More options the better for everyone in this world.
Stamp your feet 🦶 if you feel me....
What what.
Comments
...I don't want to be right.
Troublemaker
😉
“fallacy”??
https://www.factmag.com/2018/06/21/behringer-lawsuit-response/amp/
http://cdm.link/2018/06/behringer-have-sued-dave-smith-instruments-forum-posters-for-defamation/
Is that “fake news”?
And the rules are FAR from “unwritten”! How in the hell would you come to the conclusion that any capitalist system would not have explicit laws on design/invention/authorship?
If ya appreciate the Behringer pricepoint and their mimicry of previous celebrated creations, that’s fine! The arguments the OP makes to justify it are ridiculous (and flat out untrue).
But, do apps catch fire?
Do the flames make them sound warmer?
then I don't wanna right...
ha beat me to it!
Don’t even care. I just need that 808 like yesterday
Boom
Waitwut
I got samples I can give you........
What a strange comparison.
Who cares, love your Behringer gear or don't...
there is a reason Behringer never goes to NAMM they dont want to run into anyone lol
Theres this one too, now AU3:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/egdr808-hd/id454709863?mt=8
If you're more into the kick then Ruismaker Noir is amazing.
The patents have expired on many of the classics. So it’s not a big deal to me who clones what, whether it’s software or hardware. There’s been plenty of clones long before Behringer, and there will be plenty more afterwards from other companies. The problem here is that some people got their panties in a bunch simply because it’s Behringer who’s in the lead. If it were someone else doing the same thing, nobody would care to bitch and complain about it. I’m willing to bet many of the haters online bitching about it are also using cracked copies of Ableton with a bunch of cracked VSTs. I’m also sure that the Moog Grandmother is insanely marked up. The build quality is not up to par for something that costs $900.... and people wanna defend shit like that? Who’s the real crook here? Some people are so blind to brand loyalty that they’ll buy into anything they’ve been told. How many times does Moog have to state that they’re an employee owned company? Enough times to make people believe they gotta spend $900 on a synth that cost maybe $100-$200 to make. Like PT Barnum used to say, “There’s a sucker born every minute”.
Yeaaaaahh. But like many people the 808 Is so dear in my heart, always wanted the actual analog version of it. I like to step away from the DAW. Would be fun to digitone and 808 it up. And it’s super affordable if you have a sweetwater card........
And honestly their 2 most recent original pieces are cool to me. 2 semi modulars seem fun to play with. Might check out the crave
Beringer Well done of course. Why many synth users hate all these fucking clones? I tried to twist the model d and dragged wildly, even in the assembly there are no compromises and functions more than the original and no preventive measures or all sorts of repairs, + a cool form factor. However, in any topic, a pair of trolls begin to shout about what they think about uncreative and graceless Uli , ignoring the plague deepmind and the same neutron. It is clear that everyone in the head is different, but how can you not notice the humanism and messianism of this clone project. Even from the point of view of universal culture, all synth legacy from collections and museums
they give to people again, and these are really cool.
I've seen more strat copies I could shake a stick at. All with varied similarity to any of the originals. By this I'm not saying everyone should go out copying each other but there comes a time when product becomes iconic and gets copied because of that simple fact.
Behringer are a massive company with all sorts of research departments and one would expect they would have thought that through before spending cash on prototyping and the rest of it.
One thing I don't understand is why they don't tweak the external design more to differ from the original but I guess there will be a strong pull towards those iconic looks. They would have done their homework, without a doubt.
Another side thought that is possibly unrelated is how some companies market their products as made in USA or UK as if it was a good thing. With worker's hourly rates in those countries I'd be worried that they either there's issues with worker's rights or the quality of the product if the price is on par with stuff made in China.
I'm a consumer with limited funds partly to do with global dominance of raging capitalism that is largely unchecked by governments. Looking for ways to feel sorry and morally responsible for what I buy to make music with feels rather frugal. This is especially true, considering that many of these companies have multiple owners in multiple countries with standard shady practices behind the cool and trendy exterior*
*my apologies to all the multinationals that are clean and have been unfairly painted by my conspiracy theorist brush.
The pros and cons of globalisation.
A lot of people on this list still look at Behringer the wrong way, because the make wrong comparisons. The only right comparison you can make is with companies as Primark, H&M and Inditex (Zara, Pull&Bear, Massimo Dutti, Bershka, Stradivarius, Oysho and Uterqüe). These companies for a large part copy runway fashion by designer fashion labels and make it available (because they offer it cheap) for the masses. You can see it as a process of emanicipation and that's a good thing.
Behringer does the same with music stuff, so more people can join and use better equipment for a smaller price.
That these aforementioned companies are not always correct with copyrights, etc. and use cheap (child) labour (so operating as globalist multimationals) is a different discussion.
I think one of the problems people have with Behringer is due to their legacy.
They started off life by copying other companies' current designs (at least according to the likes of Mackie*, DBX, BBE, Aphex, Roland, etc.) and this still affects how people view what they're doing today.
Behringer also sued Dave Smith Instruments, which didn't go down to well with a lot of musicians whether or not the lawsuit was fair.
Behringer have defended their actions by saying that copying 1:1 is clearly wrong but 'reverse engineering' is OK and used the example that the Samsung Galaxy followed the iPhone (Bit of an own goal here seeing as though Apple won a big lawsuit against Samsung for copying patented design elements of the iPhone.).
However I don't think it's right to criticise any individual that wants to purchase a Behringer synth, or to try and encourage them not to. We can all make up our own minds about whether we feel it's OK to purchase their stuff. It's up to the companies involved to sort this out themselves. If Behringer are legally entitled to sell a TR808 clone that's up to Roland to challenge, not us. We can obviously make our own choices based on whether we feel Behringer are entitled to our own hard earned cash, but I guess you have to assume it's legally OK until a judge says otherwise. Ethically it's obviously subjective.
But knowing a little about a company and how they operate is also a good thing. I think a lot of us around here purchase apps by specific developers because we like them and we like to support them (I'm sure many of us have bought apps we don't really want or need because we like to do our bit to help the developer keep making the products we do love). But as is evident in other threads on here, some people think all big companies are evil and operate in the same way. Others see the difference and we make our own minds up accordingly.
FWIW I have owned a Behringer mixer in the past. It was very good, especially for the money. I'd probably still have it if my children hadn't stolen my studio space ;-)
*If you want a reference, look up Mackie's suit against Behringer from the 90s. They refer to suits by many other companies. From what I understand Mackie didn't win the lawsuit against Behringer as the courts said that a PCB layout is not a design and copyright didn't apply.
The only time I would have issue with copies is if they are knowingly using patented ideas or designs illegally.
If not then all is fine and it is down to the individual if they feel the quality of cheaper copies is good enough for them.
All behringer kit that I have ever purchased is still going strong !
As said above. It's about emancipation as with clothes, nowadays everybody can afford to dress hip/ decent, which is imo a good thing. Of course there are side effects. If you want to discuss these we get into other terratory. Then you get into general questions, are you Anti or Pro Globalism (Open Borders) with al kind of implications both sides are most not often aware off.
Always a great read.
I think it is not a scientifically literal analysis .........
We are all kind of joshing around as we discuss this.
You know I am not like "Mr. Serious" with this right????
Im not. I promise.
But there is a fair comparison in many ways.
I feel no guilt? I'd like to think that. I'd like to think that my stand against any company for any practice that I find reprehensible, or unethical, immoral, whatever makes a difference. But I'm just one consumer afterall.
I have products in my humble studio space from all over the world. Probably more "developing" countries than any other. Is this good? Largely I might say yes. People everywhere need to eat and need jobs. I'm glad for this. But at the same time I feel a pang of guilt that in a way I may be perpetuating the problem. Do I buy from a company that demonstrates practices that I might find to be distasteful or wrong? So, I just try and steer clear from those companies that I know aren't conducting themselves in a way that is proper by my own personal code.
I'm not poking my finger into anyone's chest here. We all have our own code and must live by it.
I do not own any Behringer products, so I don't have any experience with their products and therefore have no opinion about that.
But, as far as their business practices, as long as they are not doing anything illegal, by stealing or ripping off other companies designs etc., then I have no issues with what they decide to price their products at.
If they want to sell a hardware synth or a licensed clone for $9.99, then go for it.
I would have been thrilled if I had access to these extremely affordable instruments back when I was in highschool — the fact that they’re making this tech accessible to people who wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford it, I would think should be enough to assuage most ethical concerns. if someone wants to avoid buying the gear because it makes them feel like morally conscientious people, so be it.. more power to them. People should do what feels right to themselves.
We all have our own position on what’s ethically tolerable/intolerable. I’m a bit on the lax side , totally fine with occasionally using a cracked program for example, as I always end up buying software I like and use, slowly getting to the point where nearly everything on my computer is legit. I don’t like that some people use and enjoy cracked software without ever having intention to pay for it, but I’m not the type to wag my finger at them—I’m totally fine with the glass house I built and I’m not about to tear it down.
People have to discover for themselves what makes their own glass house tolerable to live in.
Thanks (on behalf of my ego)
Of course but...
There is too much focus on the ethics/drama side. That's the "buzz" around Behringer and it's almost like the product doesn't really matter.
I would never feel guilty for using Behringer gear. I'd feel uninspired with a studio full of it because I'd know it took no effort to acquire, is aesthetically unappealing and won't improve my output. I'm inspired by apps because they take classic synth sounds to a different place.
There's always a low-end player that rises to the top and out produces everyone else. Often they eventually they start working their way "up market". There's not a lot of money to be made in the overall synth market. With Behringer going full swing, there'll be even less left over. There'll still be some boutiques left with some overlap (e.g. Dreadbox and the like), but most everyone else will get pushed out into the $1k USD+, more "pro" market (I put that in quotes because it's not like some professionals don't get cheaper stuff to play around with).
If it wasn't Behrinter, it'd be somebody else. It's how the system works. I don't love it, but I can't change it.
If the Boog D had better MIDI and some patch memory, I quite likely would've ended up with it instead of the SE-02. I'm very glad I did NOT because the SE-02 is a crazy little beast, but the D sounds great and is inexpensive. I also didn't want a clone of anything, because software and samples can do that if I feel nostalgic. That's a personal thing, though.
If I eventually decide to get another hardware synth, if I can't afford a Peak, then I'd probably end up with a DeepMind module (unless something else comes out in the meantime that's as good or better for around the same price).
Who knows maybe Behginer will do a PEAK model next! LOL