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I wasn't intending to call you out
But thanks for not taking it personally and engaging honestly with my argument, it's very very rare to see this online and I really appreciate the openness of your response. I hope I can engage with opposing arguments with the same honesty. 😍😍😍
I find the whole more bass, less bass issue very frustrating. You record bass and those with bass pronounced listening apparati hear too much bass. You record less bass and those with flat monitoring hear too little. I assume many even listen to tracks here on their iPads. How do you manage it except the most common denominator approach?
It may well have been that exact video that caused me to get the DT770s. I've long had a couple pairs of 7506s and they are...wow...just a pleasure to listen on, but I agree they are a little light in the bass. When comparing mixes on my monitors and other less ideal locations, various cars, etc., that was the one thing they were not pointing me right on. The DT770s are nice and flat.
Like @audiblevideo I use Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro. The best headphone I ever used.
Questions calls for the image below.
Huge and important question. One I have read many guides to and tried many approaches over the years. But my summary response is first, clean unnecessary mud on tracks that don't need it. A muddy competing low end doesn't come through well on good systems and can mask elements that just might come through on bad ones.
Beyond that I think about things on two levels:
1) Key components of the arrangement, if they are very low (or very high, more rarely an issue, but crappy systems can be weak in highs too) accentuate them with mid frequency content.
You'll read a lot about this regarding kick drum sound design for example. A natural acoustic kick drum in fact, if you look at the frequency response, has some strong peaks from low hertz, say 20-100, and often some around 2000. One common thing to do there is to cut mud, not at the lowest ranges, but in the middle. In other words, keeping a lot of content around 40-60Hz and 2000Hz.
You'll see similar recommendations re synthesized ones. e.g. people combining different samples for low frequencies, higher ones. I'll often do it with an aux buss and some distortion.
2) Accept that some nuances of the arrangement might not come through on crappy systems. Make sure they really fall into number 2.
Thank you very much for your reply, these seem to be some of the most highly regarded headphones.
Are you using the 32ohm, 80ohm, or 250ohm version?
My instincts would be to go with the highest impedance my iPad pro can comfortably drive without a dedicated headphone amp - so probably the 80 ohm model. However, I'm wondering if they still might sound a bit under powered and quiet from the iPad's headphone socket, so it may be safer with the less sophisticated 32ohm model instead?
@richardyot - what would your advice be on picking between the above?
I have the 80ohm version
I confess I never really checked the specs on any of the things I was going to use and blindly got the 80ohm version. That said, volume is fine on a variety of sources. My Mackie Big Knob, old but nice hi fi system, iPad. Can't say I hear a real difference on any of those either, which I assume have different specs. And while I haven't rigorously evaluated, I have listened to the same tracks, during mastering, on each.
Hi @Ripper7620 !
I also love my Beyer Dynamic Headphones! 😊
I’m a longtime user of the DT770 Pro which I use mainly for recording at home but this headphone is not very portable. That’s why I bought the foldable Sony 7506 last year, there are better on the road...
For mixing I prefer the half open Beyer Dynamic DT 880 !
Before buying the Sony I’ve started this thread which can be also interesting...
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/28368/good-headphones-for-ios-wanted-which-do-you-use-poll/p1
This. Very odd.
Shocking to me when i hear that people do this. I mean, I can’t tell people that they aren’t enjoying the listening experience. If they are happy, then thats great.
But personally, I can listen to nothing music related on Apple Earbuds or iPad speakers. My Shure se215 earbuds are for on-the-go. And Sony MDR-7506 for at the desk.
Thank you very much for your reply, portability is not an issue, as I do everything at home, I’m just surprised that I haven’t heard of the DT 880’s, so that’s one more headphone to consider.
@Ripper7620 Are you open to going for IEMs or
do you want full sized?
I’m asking because the market for affordable, high quality IEMs has exploded over the last few years, in a way that has no equivalent (afaik) for full size headphones. There’s a plethora of small (mostly Chinese) companies making sub 50$ IEMs that easily go head with IEMs that go for 3-5 times the price from big companies.
My personal favorite right now - and the best headphones I’ve ever owned - are the Tin Audio T2 (2017 model - not the newer “pro” version, and not the even newer t3). Precision, precision, precision! Extremely linear frequency response, wide soundstage, with an uncanny amount of details on everything from stereo imaging to transients. The bass and sub-bass is less pronounced than a lot of people prefer for everyday listening. But even for people who wouldn’t reach for them as go to, they are a godsend for analytical listening. These used to go for 50, but can now easily be found for 29-35 on aliexpress. At that price, they just might be a must buy.
If you dig around on headfi you’ll find tons of info on dozens of outstanding offerings from 5$ up... (Second favorite for me: the amazing VE Monk plus (5$ beasts, but need a headphone amp to perform). Honorable mention: 13$ Nicehck “bro”; huge bass and sub bass, while still having a fairly linear response throughout the mids and highs. Were my go to IEMs for the last year until I got the T2.)
I have the 80 ohm version, my iPad can drive them just fine. Ironically, for me they are a little too bassy 😂 but they are very good for checking the low-end of a mix because the bass on them can go very deep. But for final mixes I personally use Focal Spirit Pros, they are a bit more balanced than the DT770s IMO. The DT770s are slightly scooped in the midrange, but have very rich bass.
Thank you very much for bringing IEM’s into this discussion, because I’m totally ignorant of them. I’m gonna do some digging where you suggested. I have heard that with IEM’s, that it’s very important that they fit your ear canal, and so I’m a little shy about diving in. I really really want some open back Sennheiser HD 800S’s, but man saving up that kind of money, and then having to buy a custom audio interface for them is daunting.
The trick to working with any pair of headphones, whether the headphones have more bass or less bass, is to listen to a lot of music in the genres you produce to get your ears used to them. It usually takes me a day or two of on and off listening to get used to a new pair of headphones.
Since my iPad Pro 11" lacks a proper headphone jack (and the fact I tired of tangled wires and wires snagging on shit), I saved up and purchased Beats Solo3. I don't know if I'd recommend them for acoustic genres as they are high-end consumer cans, but they work a treat for the electronic genres in which I work (Ambient, EDM, Hiphop, Musique Concrete/Found Sound, etc). The battery life in them is about 40 hours, and they charge up lightning fast. Sure there's some latency, but it's still a fraction of what the latency is when working with Android using wired headphones, lol.
This gets me to wondering - are there any bluetooth wireless monitor headphones out there with at least 24 hours battery life per charge?
That’s true about fit, but don’t let that intimidate you. Sure, the absolute best option is getting custom fit eartips. But you can get outstanding results by just limiting yourself to the different tips that come with the IEM you purchase. If you really want to go all in on tips without breaking the bank, buying on aliexpress, throw in a few sets of KZ memory foam and silicon tips for good measure and you’ll be fine - a 3-4$ investment. (See the sets pictured below. I use the first one - KZ starline (Black silicons) - but others prefer memory foam or something like the other style of silicone tips.)
Maybe all people overhere that do the finally mix should also think about what there audience is. Most people use shit ampliers of crappy headphones and than there's compression. @Multicellular drawing describes this very good. The world really changed compared to 30 years ago where a quite good stereo installation was a sign of good taste amongst many young people. Now most people stream to shitty bluetooth boxes.
DT770 pro
@ohwell Thank you for the reply and information, I appreciate it.
I just heard a set of yamaha headphones yesterday that sounded really good, I don't know the model offhand. My friend got them at a Yamaha training for free, which is very cool because he says they are about $200. They sounded similar to my 7506 but no wires to get caught when you fold them.
I have akg q701 that are great for mixing, and my 7506 that I use while mixing not a home because they are easier to carry. I also use my custom iem a lot, especially when doing live sound so that I don't have to crank the volume to hear soloed channels to find problems.
But look up those yamaha, they sounded really nice.
I have and love my Beyerdynamic 880 DT Premium 250 ohm. I personally don’t need an extra headphone amplifier to drive it on my iPad or PC. They are extremely comfortable and the sound is great. The sound is clean and analytical. There is a difference between the Pro and the Premium version. And to make it more complicated: the Premium version is also called ‘Edition’. (see picture, also for the pricing; a few years ago they were much more expensive, I paid 225 euros 4 years ago, they are now 159 euros). The guy in this vid is talking sense in my opinion.
You should also balance it on car speakers
Nah, if it sounds good through monitors and headphones, that’s good enough for me.
Ripper, all the better IEMs come with a selection of tips of different materials. Super good IEMs can cost a grand. You are a Mackie fan, so try out the Mackie 220s. As I said, I was hot for them and researched a bunch. They will cost as much as decent over the ears, so, unless you go for the Chinese ones (and they seem highly recommended) you are not gonna save dough. One caveat, and this stopped me in my tracks 😈... they are in like Flynn and the occasional unexpected volume spike in iOS mixing (no problem listening to produced stuff, obviously) can cause serious damage. I may have suffered a bit just using Apple buds, and they are not a sealed environment like IEMs. So be careful.
Awesome thank you very much, I appreciate it!
This is the "Mastering" decision: trying to insure a musical product sounds as good as it can across the widest collect of devices: car speakers systems, flat screen TV's, home stereos, iPhone with earbuds, etc.
I think the OP started with a request for a great listening environment to replace some worn out headphones but by now he maybe weighing:
IEM's
Openback vs closed back
Perfectly flat cans (for mixing)
genital sub-woofers from strap-on for that deep bass center channel experience
not mentioned yet but penetrating the emerging market haptic feedback accessories
Significantly more important that which headphones you use, is to use more headphones :-) Ideally from very different ranges - one consumer-line (apple EarBuds are good example) and one studio-line. And switch between them. The change is key, because ear tends to start "lying" to you if you are for some time listening on same headphones / monitors .. Constant switching between various headphones / monitors is key to balanced mix.
And you need really LEARN your headphones / monitors by listening some official tracks ! If you know when you can believe your headphones, and when not, and if you combine knowledge with spectral analyser - you can do great mixes even with relative cheap headphones ...
Perfectly said, @dendy.