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The Future of Drum Perfect Pro and Lumbeat apps..?
I’m very happy with Drum Perfect Pro and Soft Drummer, and don’t mind that they are IAA (in fact they are probably better this way as I think their interfaces are too in-depth for decent AU rendering and I’d never want to run more than one instance of either), but I am slightly hesitant to invest more money in the DPP IAPs or other Lumbeat apps (such as the Afro-Cuban and Brazilian Drummers) owing to the uncertain future of IAA.
The Lumbeat apps in particular are relatively expensive (although I appreciate that they are probably worth a lot more than another synth or FX app costing £5-10 owing to their complexity and the fact that they are genuinely realistic replacements for a real drummer - no mean feat).
Anyone else having similar thoughts?
Comments
They’ll almost certainly continue to work for years. I see no need to worry. I’m not a big IAP purchaser though. I guess the depreciation would figure in a little, but if I felt I could make use of an IAP, then I wouldn’t hesitate.
There will always be some way to make apps work together. Audiobus will continue to fill that role. They all have audio export. Worst case, maybe a second iPad as a sound source.
It’ll all be fine. 😇
Also with new macOS and iPadOS these apps will work on desktop probably... and you can use iPads are aggregated devices ATM (from Sierra or el Capitan and above I think...) so you can sample/midi these anytime...
These are great apps. I have to say, I have finally taken to @DerekBuddemeyer's DrumSession in a much stronger way than before. I have always used it. But now, it feels so much like a real session drummer.
Lumbeat is great for "set it and forget it" …if you find a preset you like, awesome, and thanks for the fills.
DrumPerfect is nerdville, of course, and I wish I had time to delight in all the IAPs I paid for, and haven't used.
There's my splatter on the subject.
How does Drum Session (presumably the one by Ngo Minh Ngoc?) differ from DPP or Lumbeat?
Just watched a couple of demos. Not convinced by how realistic it sounds on those, I presume it can with a bit more tweaking?
The Lumbeat apps are one-of-a-kind on iOS.. nothing else like them.. It'll be a Samplr scenario.. Freeze an iPad/iPhone on an iOS where they work relatively flawlessly.. and run 'em until they die.. hopefully there will be updates/replacements at some point BUT, not counting on it + maybe not possible nor feasible.
When I need to jam out ideas on guitar or bass, these are the 1st apps I open up.. tap a tempo and hit random beat until something clicks.. that is priceless in my book.. and why I still plan on geting Future Drummer.. the only one missing from the complete set. I think every guitarist OR bassist should own these apps.. only a "REAL" drummer could do what they do in just a couple of button presses. I can't recommend them enough!
I believe that this requires developers to compile the apps specially. I don't think that iOS apps will automatically work on the Mac.
I will certainly not be rushing into any major iOS upgrades without knowing if my essential apps work well in any new OS -- and if they don't, I'll freeze my iPad as you suggest.
Probably but at some point just a wrapper will emerge or macOS adding full remote control from some kind of UI ala logic remote but inverted. Apple isn't going to lose all those bazillion apps which makes iOS its goldmine.
Meanwhile IDAM could do the trick.
I am not sure what you are saying. However, Catalyst works, it won't address the issue that started this thread. I.e., Catalyst is not going to allow people to run old iOS on MacOS unless the developer compiles them for MacOS -- which probably will mean that the apps will need to be update. So, if the concern is "what about my IAA apps after IAA is pulled fro the OS", Catalyst probably doesn't change things. Hopefully, IAA will be one of those technologies that continues to be supported for years after deprecation.
Ok I will try to explain for each possible scenario...
1st scenario.
Then these could be ported very easy to mac (it seems).
https://developer.apple.com/ipad-apps-for-mac/
They will need to be "exported/compiled" but the code is the same at 99% aside dedicated frameworks which seem more related to HealtKit, HomeKit and so.
Not rocket science, just tying up the loose ends. Apple wants iOS apps in the desktop as they also wanted Photoshop on iPad Pro.
From the WWDC 2015 first 2 minutes... App Extensions > Appstore (claps in the crowd)
Take a look at the whole conference since it points what my gut says about future. In fact Apple has covered the monolithic conversion with the wrapper I said. Take a look at these two pictures.
Here a demo AUv3 wrapped into LogicX like AUM/AB3 does in iOS.
Here, after killing the dedicated process for that AU, the wrapper keeps running, the host keeps running but the effect has been killed.
That wrapper manages the Audio/midi outside the plugin which has to be coded inside AUv3 rules of course.
Also shows how to manage compatibility with bridges
So Catalyst is part of these technologies to make things easier for developers. Also take a look how Garageband manages AUv3...
Again is wrapping the AU with proper keyboard and controls from the host... but it could be done as monolithic app with some kind of Universal Host.
The point is this is from iOS9 //2015 so lots of apps still have previous technologies and previous code (objective-C) so these could be harder to port into AUv3 and modern frameworks but if they are done go desktop should be the easier part. That’s why Apple have deprecated IAA as being just a compromised solution from its own inabilities from iOS itself (and AB pointed to that since day 1). All these technologies are trying to fix that but Apple usually wrecks things in the process like IAA compatibility... let’s hope some bridges are also there for those. Also some kind of bus between AU without directly a host? If not I suppose creating it was what @Michael talked about in last interviews when he was asked about IAA deprecation... but it will be great almost those apps (like the ones generated this topic) keep updated almost to newer OS minimum requirements if not AUv3...
We can speculate more but if you want but I prefer ready solutions also so...
2nd scenario.
The freeze mode iPad some of you pointed/suggested is the way to go BUT since these are actual apps (iOS12) and since El Capitan (I made the search finally) has IDAM support you can resample apps inside mac DAW of your choice.
About wrapping them from desktop ala logic remote inverted...
I was talking about something like "Use external instrument" in Logic but maybe standalone to be DAW agnostic.
https://www.musictech.net/tutorials/hardware-synthesisers-logic-pro-x/
With IDAM you can use any supporting midi app just an external instrument. No need for IAA again, just Audio/Midi to system so IDAM could use them.
I hope this time is more clear what I tried to say and how to workaround even these apps never will update anymore.
For further technical madness I will point everyone to
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/33165/the-biggest-audio-news-from-todays-apple-event-iaa-is-deprecated-in-ipados-ios-13/p5
I was trying to explain my POV not want to derail the topic...
Thanks.. looks like I will have to get a Mac sooner rather than later..
well I manage to get an old late12 mac mini with full ram and ssd at 400€ a year ago ...and it's performing quite well... I'm not into hosting AU there neither BTW... I gone conservative after iOS experience and work mainly with audio loops and my plugins are external hardware or the iPad apps.
Don’t think there is anything like Future Drummer or IBassist, even on desktop..
If one can get these apps on desktop, then that will complete about 1/2 of the song creation process.. So many short coming on pure iOS.. (all iOS DAWs seem to have short comings)...ahh, and FL Studio does Mac now..
Wish we had the IBassist Export feature on the drum app...
What make them so special? I'm curious since I find music memos doing something similar to my trio+ and those doing drums/bass from audio source as backing tracks. Also Drunmer in garageband has amazing options and follow track.
Last time I look at iBassist and iDrummer my thought was I need to buy them next black friday but I don't remember if was before I purchased the trio+ and know about the music memos features.
Look at Trio+ and Music Memos.. It all boils down to precision ..GarageBand’s drummer looks interesting.. but how do you get out your sequences...anyway...
Yeah I see you have more control on these apps... with the trio+ I has some control but harmony is based sorely on learn from the audio you put inside it playing. Digitech suggest to play simple for that process and later record whatever in the loop slot.
About Drummer it has some more control and even I will say easiest in some cases with XY control. Also the follow track but I'm talking about desktop... I don't remember about iOS version due I don't use DAWs in iOS anymore. So I don't get these out Garageband, it's my actual DAW and Drummer is one of the main reasons.
Music memos has something similar like the trio. You record the chords into it and bass/drum is generated from it and later you can edit on Garageband. I'm not using it too much due the trio+ (it's funnier IMHO)
I suppose it's related to workflow... I'm finishing more songs lately thanks to these tools. BlocsWave is my sample source and basic song structure but my standards are lower than most musicians so I don't need too much control, just enough to finish things lol.
Thanks for the video and the chat
for starters Trio and Music memos, cant be synced to anything ( or atleast a pain to) . They are idea creating tools and great ones
Ibassist and funk drummer can be used live and synced with other apps ( including your hardware delays like H9)
Ibassist has great presets to get you started . Both apps work well together, standalone as you said Drummer from GB is easier for programming ( but again a little tricky to use live if not pre programmed). Funk Drummer is plug and play
Yeah syncing is the weakest point but in my situation I don't trust a lot on iOS for live gigs.
I only consider using GTL and one of the reasons is working only audio and monolithic approach.
Precisely the IAA drama (it seems worst like I expected but I hope it fixes soon) that our talking is part makes me even more conservative... I will use 99% iOS apps as studio use as composing tools.
Live looping and sync duties are also only suitable for studio ATM, In regular live gigs I just play over backing tracks looking for the less risky setup. Personal taste and maybe a little derail but that's why ended buying the trio+.
In my live gigs workflow I don't need to sync nothing due I just pre-load the parts at home (it has sync between parts to build songs) and play backing tracks at gigs with optional bits of looping but not a must neither... but yes it will be amazing a machine with the trio+ features plus Beatbuddy or new Roland RC2R. For me iDevices aren't these machines anymore... even when I play Djay Pro I just use basic functionality and if I need to use loops or so I will go for dedicated sampler too. It's a shame but I can't compromise the music and show due I postulate as entertainer musician so zero experimental music or tools for regular gigs. I try things like those at home sometimes and some risky and funny approaches in certain jam sessions where I play for fun or betatest these things to check reliability.
I will look again into these because I can add Ibassist and Latin Drummer to my belt almost for home use. Thanks for pointing out @hisdudeness probably I miss something else so really appreciate sharing your Pros for these
And Reggae Drummer!
Yes maybe the extra control is so-so but dedicated styles could be the best feature for me ATM.
Thanks once again
yes you cant trust IOS for live gigs , especially loading and unloading AB presets
hence I use or to two apps at a time along with hardware
most used are OMB, funk drummer and Dreamfoot
as a minimum I need drum machine to sync to my delays (timeline). beatbuddy does
With my band , I use playback a lot (since Im more into singing)
https://www.multitracks.com/products/playback/ (more expensive solution than GTl)
and much more portable version than ableton
I know its primarily a Christian/Worship, but you can load your own stems via subscription, and do verse,Chorus arrangement
Well that's a respectable opinion, probably based in your experience... but mine says opposite. I was very hardcore user back in the day but these days gone and I'm fine about it. Some days I even consider leave this forum due I get very few info vs the time I invest here but I love to chat and learn, share and so on. My bad you have touched bone on this my friend...
I don't use midi apps in my setup and even I could try these I will convert to audio and load the stems/clips into GTL and just use one app. As I stated before I don't need extra control but I love all the stability I can achieve simplifying workflow. I never use more than one app at time so if I'll need Djay Pro and GTL for a gig I will use two iDevices. That's why I have a tc helicon Vk, the trio+ a studiologic numa compact 2... and I have lots of apps for vocoding, fx and keyboard synths (including Neo Soul keys, Pure Synth, Module...) but I can't rely a gig on iOS. I prefer cheap sounding and limited options from my hardware over glorious sounds and infinite options from software. I can play under hot sun in my country with the hardware without experiencing warnings and rebooting from them like I experienced with my iPads... so no way.
I needed it in the past for syncing first looping clips back in the day (ehx 2880) but nowadays I load these first loops as Main group in GTL. The same if I use any other looping hardware/software. In the trio+ full songs are loaded into it at studio/home and live gigs are just replay and very few looping as I said. I evolved from experimental looping into cover songs and my own songs.
Yes I tried similar solutions like Prime:Loops and time to time look to these but if I need to go so complex I will bring the mac mini and Ableton, Traktor os Mainstage. I haven't a band by very well meditated decision. Sometimes I do duos/trios but mostly over backtracking and since in my country it's hard to get properly payed the tendency is the opposite: People asking me about doing backing tracks for them and how to play as solo player OMB. Shame since it made me more conservative as you can see.
Yeah I have no problem with Worship tools and I consider even join a church near my home but, aside personal considerations, I haven't enough level as keyboardist to join them properly and I should do it as singer but I want to play more keys... XD
Thanks once again for sharing your experience. Hardly will convince me to use iOS on stage again but I hope your spirit inspires future readers. Also I hope iPadOS bring us more stability and less bloatware phone apps and underline system task so iPads become the tool I was trying to made them years ago... anyways I'm more happy/confortable with the hardware for the live and the software for the studio. My standards are very low for sure I don't expect others follow me but I can see others getting my point as time goes. The worst part is I feel iOS issues are recurrent and now we had again a small time window without too much hassle but IAA deprecation seem new iteration of Apple drama... it's not just iOS, to be fair it's whole Apple which I lost my trust. Time will tell and I hope you enjoy your path my friend. I'm doing it with my own and that's a lot for me...
Blessings