What’s so special/bad about Catalina.

NeonSilicon

@mifki said:

If Apple had killed off 32-bit apps when they should have,
It is something that does have to happen and devs have known it was coming for more than a decade.

Again, why do you think 32bit support is bad and had to be removed? Basically, now the OS doesn't allow the functionality that the hardware supports. Why does it have to be this way? Yes, it requires a bit more work, but as you said yourself, if the code is good, then supporting both architectures is just a matter of a checkbox.

No, I said my code was just a matter of a checkbox. That isn't even remotely close to true for the system kernel and libraries. These are huge systems that have to be maintained. Every time they want to add features they would need to develop and test against the 32-bit code. This most definitely is holding back new development and libraries. Apple is in the process of pushing major changes to the underlying systems right now, from security to development with Swift to the whole catalyst and SwiftUI thing. This is much more important than maintaining compatibility with some older no longer maintained apps.

then the games you have listed there would have been written as 64-bit originally and there wouldn't be a problem now.

Oh, of course not! These games have been ported from Windows, where they were and are 32bit. If it were not possible, they wouldn't exist on Mac at all - which, again, is not good for anyone.

What about these games on Windows requires that they be 32-bit? I'm having a hard time believing that they would have to stay 32-bit to be ported. I think they would have been ported anyway. There certainly are a whole bunch of 32-bit and even older games that have been ported to the 64-bit only iOS.

mifki

@NeonSilicon said:
Apple is in the process of pushing major changes to the underlying systems right now, from security to development with Swift to the whole catalyst and SwiftUI thing. This is much more important than maintaining compatibility with some older no longer maintained apps.

Well, the sales are the most important for Apple. The situation with games have always been shitty on Macs and only recently started to improve. Gaming for many people is a major factor when they're choosing a computer, especially if they're not developers/power users. And for games (and some other software categories, for example, scientific), there's no such thing as "older no longer maintained" (well, who wants the modern "free-to-play" crap at all).

Apple discontinued server hardware and lost users who needed that, they lost some pro users with rare and strange Mac Pro updates, now they will lose gamers with the removal of 32bit and possibly removal of OpenGL in future. Who are they targeting?

What about these games on Windows requires that they be 32-bit? I'm having a hard time believing that they would have to stay 32-bit to be ported. I think they would have been ported anyway.

Mac market was and probably still not that big to justify a lot of development related to updating 32bit code to 64bit. As I said, Apple needs game developers more than they need Apple.

There certainly are a whole bunch of 32-bit and even older games that have been ported to the 64-bit only iOS.

iOS market is much much bigger and can bring much more money to justify such work. Even people who wouldn't be interested in a title on desktop, may be interested in the same title on mobile device.

rs2000

@SevenSystems said:
@Samu, yep, this paranoid "security" bullshit in all its various forms is also the reason why I've started to hate using computers and doing software development.

Security is not a bad thing, as long as the user has the choice. "Dumbing down" MacOS users will certainly not help its reputation in a professional environment.

The world didn't end when people still used stinking normal "login/password" pairs (roughly between 1960 and 2010).

And even smartcards, tokens or biometric authenticators work perfectly well since decades.

And regarding the driver signing etc.: I had my own "lovely" experience with that when in Xequence, device-motion based controllers suddenly simply stopped working, because recently, the movement of your device is considered "dangerous private data".

So is the address book and the camera.
iOS simply asks for permission to access them. Why not with motion sensors?

LucidMusicInc

Now that we have Catalyst, what amazing music apps can we expect to have ported to MacOs. I'm hoping all of them eventually

Samu

@LucidMusicInc said:
Now that we have Catalyst, what amazing music apps can we expect to have ported to MacOs. I'm hoping all of them eventually

And since there is no way for the macOS AppStore to distribute iOS/iPadOS apps (for now) it would mean paying for all of them all over again if/when that happens

Keenan

@Samu said:

@LucidMusicInc said:
Now that we have Catalyst, what amazing music apps can we expect to have ported to MacOs. I'm hoping all of them eventually

And since there is no way for the macOS AppStore to distribute iOS/iPadOS apps (for now) it would mean paying for all of them all over again if/when that happens

I don’t mind that, I’ve had to buy the Affinity apps on both platforms. I’d happily repurchase a bunch of ported iOS synths and apps to use with Logic.

klownshed

I'm not upgrading to Catalina any time soon.

Every now and then there's a version of Mac OS that breaks everything and then things settle down.

Catalina is a 'break things' release.

Just don't upgrade reminders (assuming you use them) on your iOS devices if you're not upgrading to Catalina or you'll lose syncing though :-)

Having said all that, if and when I get an iPad that is side car compatible then I'm upgrading and will have to deal with whatever breaks then. I think it might be worth getting an iPad just to use with Affinity Photo and Designer.

I don't use many third party plug-ins with Logic any more so that won't be a big deal for me.

SevenSystems

@rs2000 well, for one, because each time they declare some kind of sensor or other thing "dangerous", developers have to update their apps for compatibility. OK, they have to do that all the time anyway 😂

But in general, all these security related questions, popups, dialogs etc. simply destroy the user experience and often needlessly alarm or confuse the user.

The worst offenders are of course Cookie alarms on websites (WE CARE ABOUT YOUR PRIVACY!!!!!11111), but they're only one piece of the puzzle.

I simply think that 99% of users don't know or care about any of this stuff. They simply want to seamlessly use their devices.

But yeah, maybe it's not all black and white. I'm in a fundamentally frustrated mood recently anyway for certain reasons, so maybe I should just limit my forum visits to customer support 🙂🤦‍♀️🤔

rs2000

@SevenSystems said:
@rs2000 well, for one, because each time they declare some kind of sensor or other thing "dangerous", developers have to update their apps for compatibility. OK, they have to do that all the time anyway 😂

Apple love to keep devs busy

But in general, all these security related questions, popups, dialogs etc. simply destroy the user experience and often needlessly alarm or confuse the user.

The worst offenders are of course Cookie alarms on websites (WE CARE ABOUT YOUR PRIVACY!!!!!11111), but they're only one piece of the puzzle.

Indeed, these popups certainly didn't turn out to bring the desired effect.
A critical point is that the regulation did not include certain default cookie settings, so if you agree, you never know what you actually agree upon without reading a whole bunch of bla each time.

I simply think that 99% of users don't know or care about any of this stuff. They simply want to seamlessly use their devices.

100%. I mean yes, 99%. Or so. 😅

But yeah, maybe it's not all black and white. I'm in a fundamentally frustrated mood recently anyway for certain reasons, so maybe I should just limit my forum visits to customer support 🙂🤦‍♀️🤔

Get yourself a nice Barraquito con todo and relax ☕️

SevenSystems

@rs2000 said:
Get yourself a nice Barraquito con todo and relax ☕️

That's incidentally what I'm doing right now 😂 but I think I've been born for productivity. The technical kind, not biological. 😎

rs2000

@SevenSystems said:

@rs2000 said:
Get yourself a nice Barraquito con todo and relax ☕️

That's incidentally what I'm doing right now 😂 but I think I've been born for productivity. The technical kind, not biological. 😎

Hey what a coincidence
OK, let me do the biological part for you

BiancaNeve

Wow.

Never seen a company say switch to a pc coz we can’t be arsed to update our plug ins before.....

https://www.meldaproduction.com/admin.campaign/online/b35afd4050f5144e991b3c73cd82b16e

Jumpercollins

@BiancaNeve said:
Wow.

Never seen a company say switch to a pc coz we can’t be arsed to update our plug ins before.....

https://www.meldaproduction.com/admin.campaign/online/b35afd4050f5144e991b3c73cd82b16e

They made a mistake

Dear customer,

the previous newsletter caused a little confusion among the OSX users. Please note that we are NOT going to stop supporting OSX platform. However we wanted to point out there are certain problems on OSX and there is an alternative.

We are sorry for the confusion

RUST( i )K

Thanks for the thread.

I am interested mainly because I am finding myself at odds with the love for the new iOS ...I find it has extra steps moving stuff around app to app for me personally and my work flow.

So interested before I do the Mac what is said here.

BiancaNeve

Does Logic run on PC now ?

cian

@mifki said:
I don’t consider 32bit apps “legacy”. It’s not some other technology (like PowerPC) or something deprecated. There’s nothing inherently bad with 32bit code, CPU can run it just fine, so to kill or not to kill is purely their personal decision. Also it’s much more difficult to justify this to end users - they didn’t buy any new incompatible hardware, what’s inside the apps - 32 or 64bit - is all the same to them, and yet suddenly some of their software stopped working forever.

Of course it’s easy to update current projects to 64bit, and there’s no excuse for not doing so. But that’s not the software I’m talking about.

Yes, probably the most affected software is games which you may not consider important. Apart from smaller titles, there is Age of Empires, Bioshock, Call of duty, Civilization IV, Half-Life/Portal/TF, GTA, Sims, Witcher, Warcraft, HoMM, plus countless Windows games run via Wine - these are all big titles with lots of current players. They either haven’t been updated yet or will never be updated. OSX just recently started to get enough attention from game developers and gamers, so this move is definitely bad for the industry.

It's hard to support 32bit and 64 bit libraries. As you have to support two sets of libraries simultaneously. It's not double the work, but it's more work than you'd expect. Several Linux distros have made similar decisions recently.