Could 2020 be the year for an Apple touchscreen iOS/macOS laptop? 🍏 (poll)

haulin_notes

EDIT: I somehow made the poll disappear by doing a slight edit to the thread title... will try to fix ASAP...

(It’s year-end speculation time! Get out your pointy wizard and sorceress hats. 🧙‍♂️🧝‍♀️)

Ok, it appears that Apple is definitely doing something in the near future concerning laptops and mobile-type ARM processors.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/07/24/why-apples-macs-can-now-ditch-intel-x86

https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3082867/apple-arm-macbook-2020-bloomberg

https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/apple-hire-arm-engineer-computer-processor

https://bgr.com/2019/03/15/macbook-arm-processors-benchmarks-beat-intel-scores-leak-says/

This much seems indisputable, if slightly vague...

What is up for speculation is the exact timeframe and the question of whether Apple will somehow weld, meld, merge, or marry their two operating systems (iOS and macOS) on this projected device.

And would this radical frankenOS (if real) appear immediately upon the release of this new ARM Apple laptop... or does it get tinkered on in the Apple laboratory for a while longer? Would it cost an ARM and a leg? (sorry... )

Thoughts? 🤔

CRAKROX

Having used a touch screen laptop for a little time recently, I honestly think they are a waste of time.
They are uncomfortable to use so I would use it strictly as a laptop and use my iPad when I wanted a tablet.

jwmmakerofmusic

Hahahaha, "business as usual" and "can't be arsed to care" are currently tied for the top spot. I voted for the latter. 😏

[Deleted User]

It's still soon... first Apple needs to make the Catalyst transition more transparent like Rosetta was back in the day. Until they nail the transition between macOS to iOS and viceversa in one single machine they will rant about that idea. The day before they will sell you (PPC users could talk about that nasty way of Apple's business) but I'm not sure it will be 2020... some trustable sources point that but if we look back to see how other rumours gone... not so fast or deep (apple arcade was a long time rumour like apple car...)

My bet is: Maybe but it's not so a must to work nowadays... what do you think will be gamechanger feature from these?

Andrik

using 'destkop/pc/mac' software on a touchscreen isn't user friendly in my opinion. Look at windows. I've always been interested in touchscreen laptop, but unless you can offer a 'tablet' style interface with larger buttons, etc, it's mostly one big frustration. I think iOS is extremely well executed, but macos? Not so much. So unless the UI is drastically altered for big fingers I don't see it happen. (and I don't mean apps, I mean the core OS).

Jumpercollins

Totally agree had a Surface Pro 3 a year now and still find myself reaching for a mouse and keyboard, the pen on its own is terrible with Windows OS. Just picked up a MBP and no looking back. You won’t beat a iPad for touch interface. We just need decent touch based music port overs.

klownshed

Apple will release ARM powered Macs. Maybe 2020. Probably by 2021.

I would bet you a Cornish Pasty that they won’t be touch screen.

haulin_notes

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Hahahaha, "business as usual" and "can't be arsed to care" are currently tied for the top spot. I voted for the latter. 😏

😄 Thanks for participating, and appreciating the attempt at humor. I could have voted several different ways, but went with “maybe... can’t afford it”. Time will tell. It would be very difficult to top the current iPads for the touchscreen music-making experience.

MrSmileZ

Apple is not one to cannibalize it’s tablet sales, we’ll see...but I doubt they will. If they do...even though I can’t afford it...I will buy it. Just having LPX on a touchscreen would be awesome.

jwmmakerofmusic

@haulin_notes said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Hahahaha, "business as usual" and "can't be arsed to care" are currently tied for the top spot. I voted for the latter. 😏

😄 Thanks for participating, and appreciating the attempt at humor. I could have voted several different ways, but went with “maybe... can’t afford it”. Time will tell. It would be very difficult to top the current iPads for the touchscreen music-making experience.

LOL! Reason I said "I can't be arsed to care" is because I prefer to make music in the palm of my hands and not on a laptop. I work with what I got.

klownshed

@MrSmileZ said:
Apple is not one to cannibalize it’s tablet sales, we’ll see...

They are.

If they think a product will take sales away from their iPads, Apple would much rather it had an Apple logo on it too. They historically haven’t worried about cannibalisation.

For example. They never worried about killing the iPod, which was by far their biggest cash cow, when they released the iPhone. A few years after the launch of the iPhone the ‘traditional’ iPod had completely disappeared.

If there is a product that is better than the iPad, Apple will make it without worrying about eating into iPad sales. The sales of the new product will more than make up for it. Cannibalisation is a good thing. It means you’ve made a better and better selling product before the competition does.

skrat

It's very likely that Apple is seriously thinking about ARM Macs, but not sure if 2020 is realistic timing. My biggest question is: what kind of product will they offer to the market? Some "MacOS LE" cheap Macbook? The thing is that no current MacOS software is ready for switch to ARM, only ports of iOS apps, which seems like you'll get only the worst from both worlds You buy a laptop, which can only run a software that's not optimised for touchpad and keyboard. If you want touchscreen, why would you buy it when you can get iPad with keyboard? Maybe there's a category of users willing to also use touchpad, but it'd still make more sense to just add proper touchpad support to iPadOS. It's even there already, but it's not ideal, no gestures, no multitouch, no officially supported apple touchpad etc... But this is a micro-issue to solve compared to switch to ARM.

The main reason for using Macs is the software, usually professional ones like Adobe suite, all the music software we know and we're sad it's not available also on iPads, then things like Final cut, 3D modeling softwares, games, etc etc... Porting each one of them to ARM is substantial amount of work. It can eventually be done, but it's a matter of years. And this still assumes that MacOS itself is somehow secretly prepared to switch to ARM, which I doubt pretty much. Yes, there are APIs like Metal or Catalyst, but none of the mentioned "pro" software, AAA games etc are using it. Also, the powerfulness of ARM is still not on par with highest grade Intel processors, not even on single-core performance, not to mention multi-core. Maybe Apple is secretly cooking something, but I still doubt they'll come up with a CPU more powerful than i9 or Xeons. Also, desktop softwares are currently well optimised to leverage the use of multiple cores, so in most of the cases it' the multi-core performance what you care about.

It's still possible Apple will unveil a laptop with this "MacOS LE", which will only allow you to install apps from app store, including apps for iOS/iPadOS and it will be cheaper than e.g. iPad Pro (or maybe even than some higher spec iPad Airs), so it will be a viable option for people who don't need the touch screen, rather a proper keyboard and great battery life, as that's what you get if you combine form factor of a laptop and efficiency of ARMs. Kinda like Chromebook from Apple.

To me, this does not sound like the Apple we know, too risky and too many compromises in the quality of end-product. If they will be able to find some more strong selling points, maybe it'll happen. But smaller price and battery life, while the overall product will be mediocre, seems to be not the usual Apple's strategy.

craftycurate

@klownshed said:
Apple will release ARM powered Macs. Maybe 2020. Probably by 2021.

I would bet you a Cornish Pasty that they won’t be touch screen.

I’ll match your Cornish Pasty and raise you a Cream Tea ☕️

klownshed

There have already been major transitions in MacOS. From PowerPC to intel. From system 9 to OS X.

Each time it has taken a good while to complete the transition.

If there is going to be an ARM Mac (and that seems pretty certain — this would remove Apples dependence on intel and Apple love to own the whole stack) then It will be as seamless as the transition from PowerPC to intel. In other words completely seamless for most and pretty horrific for anybody using pro audio apps.

Apps will need to be recompiled obviously, but Apple have been paving the way with their developer tools for a long time.

When Apple transitioned from PowerPC to intel, they had Rosetta which allowed apps written for PowerPC to run on intel macs. Perhaps they will have something similar for ARM. As good as Rosetta was (and it was undoubtedly hugely impressive engineering) it didn’t work with everything. Most people never realised and things carried on working fine.

Not for ‘pro’ audio apps though!

I’ve been through all of the transitions. I still have ADB keyboards and SCSI terminators to prove it. ;-) it all works out ok in the end. Sort of.

haulin_notes

@skrat
👍 Thanks for the in-depth response! Many good points in your post.

The software aspect of it is immense, and will take much time and effort. I feel for the devs who already have their hands full. (I imagine that to them, Apple must sometimes feel like a jealous god that constantly requires blood sacrifices to remain in its divine presence. Oh why did i eat of the forbidden fruit? Whoa unto me! 😅) Sometime in 2021 might be a more realistic expectation, perhaps. Reading this article about the Surface Pro X gave me some insights (i even understood some of it, lol) into the massive conversion process required to transition to ARM CPUs:
https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/surface-pro-x-arm-app-compatibility

haulin_notes

@klownshed
Thanks for sharing your insights here. Much food for thought. 😊

I’m curious though why you think the (proposed) Apple ARM laptops (let’s call them “Apptops”, for brevity’s sake. 😄) would NOT have a touchscreen? Especially, considering the point you made about Apple’s history of self-cannibalism (ew!) which I tend to agree with. (But I’m still struggling to understand all the terminology here... Interesting stuff, though.)

Thanks. Cheers!

@klownshed said:
Apple will release ARM powered Macs. Maybe 2020. Probably by 2021.

I would bet you a Cornish Pasty that they won’t be touch screen.

@klownshed said:

@MrSmileZ said:
Apple is not one to cannibalize it’s tablet sales, we’ll see...

They are.

If they think a product will take sales away from their iPads, Apple would much rather it had an Apple logo on it too. They historically haven’t worried about cannibalisation.

For example. They never worried about killing the iPod, which was by far their biggest cash cow, when they released the iPhone. A few years after the launch of the iPhone the ‘traditional’ iPod had completely disappeared.

If there is a product that is better than the iPad, Apple will make it without worrying about eating into iPad sales. The sales of the new product will more than make up for it. Cannibalisation is a good thing. It means you’ve made a better and better selling product before the competition does.

klownshed

@haulin_notes said:
@klownshed
Thanks for sharing your insights here. Much food for thought. 😊

I’m curious though why you think the (proposed) Apple ARM laptops (let’s call them “Apptops”, for brevity’s sake. 😄) would NOT have a touchscreen? Especially, considering the point you made about Apple’s history of self-cannibalism (ew!) which I tend to agree with. (But I’m still struggling to understand all the terminology here... Interesting stuff, though.)

Because I think the laptops will run macOS. The processor is irrelevant to the form factor. Apple laptops don’t have touch screens.

Apple have already shown how they would make a system like macOS for touch screens. They called it iOS :-)

They’ve also already shown how they expect macOS and iOS software to converge with swift UI. But the input methods for macOS and iOS will remain the same I think (in other words I can’t see Apple making a laptop running iOS or a touch screen tablet running macOS or any crazy hybrid transformer type device in between).

The underlying kernel for macOS and iOS is already the same but the UI changes to suit the form factor.

NB. iPadOS = iOS

haulin_notes

@klownshed
👍 Thanks for the reply. Fair enough, your educated guess is as good as anyone’s at this point. Apple usually is very tight-lipped about such things. The main leaks come from the assembly end in China, it seems. In this case however I wouldn’t say that the CPU is completely irrelevant to the form factor. The ARM CPU being very “mobile-friendly”. But Apple can and will mold it any which way they wish, when they are ready, of course.

But to wax metaphorical... enormous success like Apple has had is like a huge furnace. It requires constant new fuel. But different from a regular furnace in that it needs not just more of the same fuel, but new and “exciting” fuels. Apple may let others do the market testing, but eventually they pull the separate innovations together with some in-house magic. And come out with products that keep the bottom line from plunging. I would not be surprised if a hybrid touchscreen laptop is one of those products in the next 18 months or so. (But what do i know? My cat is more of a tech insider than i am. 😸)