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Who here is into MODULAR SYNTHESIS?

2

Comments

  • @Artj: Are you using the US Robotics 14k4 oscillator?
    I bet there's a hidden message in your tones.

  • To be fair, I think any two synthesists in different locations given the same modular hardware would have a hard time exactly reproducing each other’s sounds from just wav files. Also, even accepting that the differences between true analogue and digital mean neither can fully reproduce all the nuances of the other, by the time you’ve made a sound work in a mix, it has usually changed a fair bit from what you originally recorded. Both have their place, each can be ‘better’ depending on circumstances.

  • @rs2000 said:
    @Artj: Are you using the US Robotics 14k4 oscillator?

    Haha, no. But it sure sounds like one, doesn't it? :p

  • @u0421793 said:

    @echoopera said:
    Getting into Modular Synths and EuroRack is kind of like getting into Leica Cameras...it's a one way road to a "Vow of Poverty."

    Indeed. And yet there’s perfectly good Cosina Bessas out there for far less. My rangefinder collecting days were quite short because I kept to cheap fixed lens ones, not expensive interchangeable. I think the ones I liked best were the older Voigtlanders.

    A few years ago i went on an Olympus fixed lens rangefinder mission; I ended up with way too many but most were pretty cheap.

  • edited November 2019

    I started with a MS-20 semi-modular 25 years ago, which I still have and it's fully working. One of my best investments because at that time nobody wanted to use analogue gear anymore. In the 90's such gear could be bought for peanuts. A couple of years later I invested in a second hand restored 4 VCO Formant modular system, and in a few Doepfer Eurorack modules that complemented the Formant. That was the cheapest option at that time. Again, this system is still running and in use. Finally I got a small skiff about 5 years ago with multifunctional modules (dual LPG's, complex oscillators like Endorphines Furtherrrr and Mannequins Mangrove, logic and other utilities like MakeNoise Maths and Mannequins Cold Mac).

    The advice I can give is the following: know the gear well enough before you buy. When you know what you get, there will be no bad surprises (only good ones). Learn as much as you can. Then your gear will be and remain a valuable investment. I actually never sold one single module in my life, all of them have a specific function or several functions that fit into the entire system or studio environment (mixing desks, effect devices, guitar pedals, computers). And you reach a point where the system is complete, where you don't need to spend time searching and speculating. All the time you invest in the studio is free for the main purpose: creating sounds and music.

  • @SevenSystems said:

    How did you get into it?

    Always liked maximum flexibility and control, and have an electronics / physics background anyway.

    What kind of costs were involved?

    Zero, as it's all in software! (first SunVox, then Audulus, then Hybris (Xequence-DAW-integrated modular synth)

    How is going?

    It's going great! :)

    Is it what you intended it to be for your music?

    Yes, absolutely happy with the results!

    Is it worth it at this point in your opinion?

    Absolutely!

    Any recommendations for those interested in getting into modular synths?

    Start with Audulus and Sunvox. Sunvox is more high-level and practical, while Audulus leans more on the scientific side because it's very low-level and resource-hungry.

    Thanks !

  • @u0421793 said:
    I grew up on modulars, spending my school days in music shops in the 70s being a nuisance with their System 100, System 700 and Arp 2600 gear. I started building a Digisound 80 system in the early 80s but I didn’t design my casing to be modular, it was more like a single-unit patchable in the same vein (but not resembling) an Arp 2600.

    Over the decades I’ve grown to dislike modular synths, mainly because they’re messy looking and covered in patch leads as if they’re some sort of military top secret installation as we’d see on Dr Who (in black and white) or James Bond (Judo chop!). I now far prefer usability and intuitive ease of use, I prefer having fewer options, but good ones – the ones I would have patched up anyway, and I prefer something that you can at least run a duster over every now and again, to keep clean and tidy.

    Great insight!

    I can't believe you actually answered with no sarcasm or shenanigans! LOL

    Thanks man

  • edited November 2019

    "How did you get into it?"

    • Semi modular (Dreadbox NYX)
    • VCV rack
    • Propellerhead Reason and some other softwares

    "What kind of costs were involved?"

    • Im around 4000 euro now. This includes mixer and Deluge / NYX and Erebus v3.
    • Bought a second case to get more into sequencers /CV / anything I forgot
    • I've sold some modules now to get some more complex CV. That has set me back somewhat in the development of my idea but it has been useful to get an general idea of how envelopes and LFO work. There are so much modules out there it's mind boggling.

    "How is going?"

    • It's getting better and better and is a daily joy to use. Takes some practice and al lot of research how something is working in general synth / sound design and modules itself.

    "Is it what you intended it to be for your music?"

    • Hell YEaH!

    I've tried to recreate my DSI Tempest with some improvements I wanted and I got even more.
    With my Deluge added I finally could escape the unclocked / unsynced noise chaos and try song structure. I took me about 9 months to realise how to do it (I didn't understand shit about clock / sync / restart / reset).
    I've tried different DAW / iPad approaches in combination with MIDI modules. I've kept my Mutant Brain and sold my 2 HP MIDI. The Deluge is the brain 🧠 now and i'm off grid with computers.

    "Is it worth it at this point in your opinion?"

    • Money itself is a source of evil. I don't care a fuck about the cost. I've nearly died 8 years ago on a bacterial infection so I take the max out of every day. I have a good job so I don't really miss the money spend.

    "Any recommendations for those interested in getting into modular synths?"

    • Obviously MI rack or VCV rack
    • Modular Grid
    • Muff Wiggler
    • Get an idea what you want to make
    • Buy second hand where you can
    • Get a fixed case with PSU so you can focus on modules instead of reinventing the wheel

    I have a EPM6 PA soundcraft mixer with a stereo out into my good ol' propellerhead audio interface Balance into iPad / computer. Sometimes I record something but in first order I consider my whole machine as an instrument / sound laboratory.

  • @Bennie

    Your setup look the biz.

    Very interested to hear what you get out of it.

  • @bennorland said:
    I got sucked down that particular black hole.

    I spent far too much money on it, and probably - looking at it with a hard rational eye - it was not worth the expense. That said I love my modular and it is a lot of fun.

    It does what I hoped, which is to say provides me with an instrument which delivers sounds I wouldn’t likely generate any other way (though this is far less true now VCV and miRack exist)

    Advice? Start playing with VCV or miRack first. Then if you like the paradigm, buy an inexpensive semi modular that’s been designed to play well with Eurorack. I’d suggest a Behringer Neutron.

    I got sucked down, but not overly far. Was a long time ago and the software options were not out there. Well even hardware options were far more limited.

    I was much more interested in it for non- or vaguely-pitched textures and percussion and I find now I am a lot more productive in that area with doing field recordings and mangling with various effects in Twisted Wave.

    Still, probably have to grab MiRack because I could more easily there extract some of the above.

  • Been into modular since the late 90’s. By now I’ve owned all the different formats (euro, serge, MU, MOTM, Buchla, Frac, etc). Obviously, it’s really exploded in about the last 10 years ago or so.

    Cost? It’s crazy expensive by any metric. And the fact you can buy it slowly piece by piece is even more insidious! Is it worth it? LOL. Only you can make that determination. There’s ppl who claim everything is best done in the software realm.... so it’s not really worth debating that. I like it. I use it. That’s that.

    In 2019, I would recommend Eurorack for ppl getting into modular. The sheer amount of choices is staggering. It’s also readily available from several different retailers. Used modules and cases can be found everywhere (including Craigslist). For all things modular head over to Muffwiggler site and explore.

    Cheers.

  • One quick tip is that you can have an oscillator goings straight to ivcs amp and envelope au to shut it off when keys are not pressed. Add a filter and maybe some midi lfo or more envelopes. This means that you at minimum only need a single oscillator and midi to cv pitch converter to use modular on ios, but same midi controlling amp obviously need to be split to pitch cv as well or its going to be hard to play.

  • So what iOS apps are there now available specifically designed for controlling eurorack (I don't mean apps for tuning specific modules)? I know the Disting module is very popular for controlling eurorack from DAWs, Reaktor etc. Any modular users here using an iPad as controller / modulation source for modular? Anyone processing audio from iPad with eurorack filters, waveshapers etc? What audio in modules do you use?

  • @ElectroHead said:
    So what iOS apps are there now available specifically designed for controlling eurorack (I don't mean apps for tuning specific modules)? I know the Disting module is very popular for controlling eurorack from DAWs, Reaktor etc. Any modular users here using an iPad as controller / modulation source for modular? Anyone processing audio from iPad with eurorack filters, waveshapers etc? What audio in modules do you use?

    I think zMors modular is the only app that can be integeated with eurorack in more depth.

    Personally i use beatstep pro to for midi-cv conversion and also lil erebus i have has midi in and can also send gate and pitch out from midi.

    I only tested once sending ios synth to my racks filters etc. it worked ok just sending audio out from focusrite 6i6. I bet a dedicated audio in module would give less noise and clearer sound, and being able to drive filters better, but i have no experience with one.

    Ios in my setup is mostly used with AUM, working as a fx unit(for eurorack and yamaha cs6r, a synth module), midi/audio router and mixer. I send this mix to my mpc, which does the midi sequencing and occasional sampling and what have you. I also sometimes load synths and other au instruments to aum.

    When i get an interface with more inputs, i will send mpc audio to ipad as well for easier recording of whole tracks playing from mpc sequences and live knob fiddling. Now i need to run cs6r through mpc if i want both and 2 channels from rack and cant apply fxs separately in ios.

    6i6 handles eurorack output straight in without any problems from front inputs. Through back inputs you cant send all high volume noises straight without them clipping at times. So a dedicated audio out module is not needed with all audio interfaces, but some eurorack interface with ins/outs can make things a lot easier and allows you to send cv to your rack and out of your rack to ios as well in a lot more flexible ways than regular interface, which has filters that remove extremely low(lfo) frequencies.

  • I got interested in modular synthesis after years of borrowing an MS-20 (semi modular) and wishing for more stuff, like, what if there was another LFO? Another oscillator? Sequencer? Effects with cv controls? Logic switches? I ended up with a monstrous, kind of handmade modular synthesizer, and consider it to be one of my worst gear purchases ever- it would take hours to get anything musical sounding out of it, an hour to set up a basic synthesizer patch, mostly it just made noise. I could eventually get something cool, and pretty unique out of it, but then I had to record a thing then and there, because there was no way you could recreate the sound later, that you spent so long putting together. The mess with all the cables draped over the controls, and the convoluted task of trying to follow the wires around to decipher what was going on, was a headache. I ended up feeling like the world had moved on, and so should I. Presets, polyphony, more intelligible modulation matrixes, portability.

    Honestly I’ve gotten more out of AnalogKit, a $10 app, than a huge, $2500 modular system. Unlimited modules, polyphony, presets, diy DSP, and you can hide the cables and customize the visible interface, label stuff. Since then, I’ve been more into semi modular hardware synths (Matrixbrute and Prophet 12) I think because most of the time, that’s what I wanted anyway- unlimited synth architecture possibilities, in reality, means a lot of bad sounds are possible. For the real science projects, that works great on the iPad, because often I would need multiples of one kind of module, like, 10 delay modules, or a random LFO for every harmonic of a square wave, etc.

    I do appreciate musicians that perform with eurorack stuff, I seen a number of people do fascinating stuff, with pretty small setups, just a few modules. On YouTube, I think the people jamming out on their home modular setups are real interesting, and unique, but, it wasn’t for me, kind of like vintage car restoration isn’t for me, or Japanese woodworking.

  • @Processaurus said:
    I got interested in modular synthesis after years of borrowing an MS-20 (semi modular) and wishing for more stuff, like, what if there was another LFO? Another oscillator? Sequencer? Effects with cv controls? Logic switches? I ended up with a monstrous, kind of handmade modular synthesizer, and consider it to be one of my worst gear purchases ever- it would take hours to get anything musical sounding out of it, an hour to set up a basic synthesizer patch, mostly it just made noise. I could eventually get something cool, and pretty unique out of it, but then I had to record a thing then and there, because there was no way you could recreate the sound later, that you spent so long putting together. The mess with all the cables draped over the controls, and the convoluted task of trying to follow the wires around to decipher what was going on, was a headache. I ended up feeling like the world had moved on, and so should I. Presets, polyphony, more intelligible modulation matrixes, portability.

    Honestly I’ve gotten more out of AnalogKit, a $10 app, than a huge, $2500 modular system. Unlimited modules, polyphony, presets, diy DSP, and you can hide the cables and customize the visible interface, label stuff. Since then, I’ve been more into semi modular hardware synths (Matrixbrute and Prophet 12) I think because most of the time, that’s what I wanted anyway- unlimited synth architecture possibilities, in reality, means a lot of bad sounds are possible. For the real science projects, that works great on the iPad, because often I would need multiples of one kind of module, like, 10 delay modules, or a random LFO for every harmonic of a square wave, etc.

    I do appreciate musicians that perform with eurorack stuff, I seen a number of people do fascinating stuff, with pretty small setups, just a few modules. On YouTube, I think the people jamming out on their home modular setups are real interesting, and unique, but, it wasn’t for me, kind of like vintage car restoration isn’t for me, or Japanese woodworking.

    There are many ways to approach modular. Personally i usually prefer having as many voices as possible, instead of one enormous patch at time thai record one piece to a song, repatch, record another piece and so on. I take my drums most the time from my rack and also 2 different voices, i need 1 or 2 cheap modules for 3rd voice. And this is from dfam + that 2 row doepfer basic diy case, which isnt big and didnt cost me half of 2500$, dfam bough new included. If i cant get enough voices from my rack, i supplement it with hardware synth, mpc synths and ios synths or sample drums to mpc so that i can free up some modules and dfam for more voices or more complex voices. Naturally i cant work with multiple songs with it properly, but i dont have to repatch after i find the sounds i want.

    I think eurorack and the whole analog thing has its drawbacks and you need to compromise with some things, but if you work with it smart, it can be made to be worth the hassle, to some. Hardware, especially analog and especially eurorack can be a huge money sink, but with a clear goal in mind, buying some used and overall smart investments, it doesent have to be too expensive to be worth it for many. Especially if you diy, you can get away with little investments and a huge rack. Some power source is easy diy from a kit and cheap, cardboard box is free and you can buy a few used cheap modules with like 150€ and a behringer crave for 150€. Thats bit over 300€ for a really nice analog voice.

  • @ElectroHead said:
    Any modular users here using an iPad as controller / modulation source for modular? Anyone processing audio from iPad with eurorack filters, waveshapers etc? What audio in modules do you use?

    the iPad/iPhone is very useful as 'external module' in a hardware modular system. The only reason why only few are doing this is because many do not know how to interface an iDevice with the system. They prefer to buy digital modules and spend considerable money for tasks that can easily be done with available smartphones and tablets. Here is what I use with an iPad2 and a Tascam iU2 interface (MIDI and 2 channel audio), located next to the modular:

    control:

    • Lemur
    • TC-Data
    • Konkreet Performer
    • CV Mod
    • midiLFOs
    • Orphion
    • Clawtar

    audio:

    • Oscilloscope
    • Audulus (mainly for filters)
    • RE-1 delay
    • frekvens
    • Altispace
    • Duplicat
    • Eos 2
    • ToneStack
    • etc.

    Then there are also those situations where you can route the iVCS3 noise generator into a synth like Arturia Microbrute that does not have a noise generator. Or use a dry static oscillator (iVCS3) to feed into a hardware ring modulator, or as a FM modulator source for VCO's.

    Besides, if you have an iDevice with headphone out, I can recommend the iRig guitar pedal expansion. It gives you 6.3mm sockets for input (mono) and output (mono/stereo). It is powered by 9V or battery and does the gain staging.

    The tablet/smartphone is my digital module. In hardware I don't have digital modules.

  • edited November 2019

    @Phil999 do you have any videos of your setup? What modules do you have?

  • The 0-Coast is my go-to remedy against sudden urges to buy into Eurorack. It's just unusual and complex and unconventional enough to offer exploration beyond what other software and hardware brings and modular enough to let me achieve specific things that bubble up in my mind. It's like a miniature west-coast modular setup with just the right amount of modules to do intriguing stuff.

  • @[Deleted User] said:

    @rs2000 said:
    @[Deleted User] and @ElectroHead
    Here's a polyphonic example just for fun, not intended to be a close remake (would need Trevor's separate monophonic oscillator voices for that) but simply to show something similar without even using a modular synth.

    first i like to say that was a great take on my doodle :-) very nice. I think analogue has more errrr.. terms like power, presence and character i think in general which soft-synths struggle with more.

    'thump' is always my go-to when trying to describe the advantage over software. There's a weight to it that doesn't exist in the computer world, no matter how well the software is modeled.

  • It's interesting, from a brief Google search, it seems like nobody ever did a scientifically watertight double-blind test on the "Analog vs. Virtual Analog" debate.

    Because if someone did, the entire discussion would be over once and for all 😇

  • @Phil999 said:

    @ElectroHead said:
    Any modular users here using an iPad as controller / modulation source for modular? Anyone processing audio from iPad with eurorack filters, waveshapers etc? What audio in modules do you use?

    the iPad/iPhone is very useful as 'external module' in a hardware modular system. The only reason why only few are doing this is because many do not know how to interface an iDevice with the system. They prefer to buy digital modules and spend considerable money for tasks that can easily be done with available smartphones and tablets. Here is what I use with an iPad2 and a Tascam iU2 interface (MIDI and 2 channel audio), located next to the modular:

    control:

    • Lemur
    • TC-Data
    • Konkreet Performer
    • CV Mod
    • midiLFOs
    • Orphion
    • Clawtar

    audio:

    • Oscilloscope
    • Audulus (mainly for filters)
    • RE-1 delay
    • frekvens
    • Altispace
    • Duplicat
    • Eos 2
    • ToneStack
    • etc.

    Then there are also those situations where you can route the iVCS3 noise generator into a synth like Arturia Microbrute that does not have a noise generator. Or use a dry static oscillator (iVCS3) to feed into a hardware ring modulator, or as a FM modulator source for VCO's.

    Besides, if you have an iDevice with headphone out, I can recommend the iRig guitar pedal expansion. It gives you 6.3mm sockets for input (mono) and output (mono/stereo). It is powered by 9V or battery and does the gain staging.

    The tablet/smartphone is my digital module. In hardware I don't have digital modules.

    Cheers for the insight!

  • edited November 2019
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • @Max23 said:
    Hm, the problem with Hardware modular is you can’t save anything
    You can’t save the structure and you can’t save the sound
    And you need to record everything as audio and than you can’t change anything if you changed your mind ...
    Unflexibel as hell and takes to long to be productive.
    Software fixes all this. :)

    If you are just looking for a cool bass sound modular isn’t for you.

    Disagree about the productive part, the quicker you get your sounds to audio the quicker you’ll finish a track. Forever tweaking and saving presets can be not productive too. Also modular is great for bass sounds.

  • edited November 2019
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • .> @oat_phipps said:

    @[Deleted User] said:

    @rs2000 said:
    @[Deleted User] and @ElectroHead
    Here's a polyphonic example just for fun, not intended to be a close remake (would need Trevor's separate monophonic oscillator voices for that) but simply to show something similar without even using a modular synth.

    first i like to say that was a great take on my doodle :-) very nice. I think analogue has more errrr.. terms like power, presence and character i think in general which soft-synths struggle with more.

    'thump' is always my go-to when trying to describe the advantage over software. There's a weight to it that doesn't exist in the computer world, no matter how well the software is modeled.

    Are you saying there's no "thump" in my audio example?

  • @Max23 said:
    Yes, but there is little need to recreate the minimoog on a modular system ...
    That’s a waste of time and not a good interface

    You’re assuming production/productivity is the end-goal. That’s merely one of many possible motivations :)

  • Hardware/software/analogue/digital/modular/hardwired/electronic/acoustic - It’s all great. There is no versus, I’ll happily use whatever is available at the time.

  • @SevenSystems said:
    It's interesting, from a brief Google search, it seems like nobody ever did a scientifically watertight double-blind test on the "Analog vs. Virtual Analog" debate.

    Because if someone did, the entire discussion would be over once and for all 😇

    I've re-built a number of sounds from analog synths and I would say that basically almost everything is possible to an extent that analog synth die-hards won't be able to spot which of two recordings comes from analog gear and which comes from the VA.
    One important aspect however is the VA synth design. Sometimes you need a very specific VA architecture to sound like the real deal, depending on what you're trying to clone.
    Oscillators are quite easy now that we have wavetable synths but filters are a different story.
    The choice of available VA is great however.
    And sometimes it's the little, forgotten features that get you from 95% close to 99.5% close.
    Like the user-shapeable wavetable distortion in Synthmaster One, used in tiny doses.
    Did you know about this? ;)

    @brambos said:

    @Max23 said:
    Yes, but there is little need to recreate the minimoog on a modular system ...
    That’s a waste of time and not a good interface

    You’re assuming production/productivity is the end-goal. That’s merely one of many possible motivations :)

    ...like playful experiments, starting from a proven architecture.
    Modulars are fantastic and practically without limits. If you spend the time, that is.

  • @rs2000 said:
    .> @oat_phipps said:

    @[Deleted User] said:

    @rs2000 said:
    @[Deleted User] and @ElectroHead
    Here's a polyphonic example just for fun, not intended to be a close remake (would need Trevor's separate monophonic oscillator voices for that) but simply to show something similar without even using a modular synth.

    first i like to say that was a great take on my doodle :-) very nice. I think analogue has more errrr.. terms like power, presence and character i think in general which soft-synths struggle with more.

    'thump' is always my go-to when trying to describe the advantage over software. There's a weight to it that doesn't exist in the computer world, no matter how well the software is modeled.

    Are you saying there's no "thump" in my audio example?

    😆

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