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A12 vs A10x for low latency operation
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I have posted a few questions here about which iPad to get.
i've had lots of useful advice that the 10.5 pro with 4 gig and A10x is maybe a better option than a Air 3 with the A12 and 3 gig. So theres the RAM vs speed benchmark argument, but I didn't mention that I will be using realtime guitar playing into the thing for looping and such, and generally like to use 128 samples latency.
It's just occurred to me that that might tip the balance towards needing a faster processor. I've seen posts mentioning quite high latencies being fine when everything is happening in the box, but that may not be so relevant to my situation...
Any thoughts on this? I'm still trying to get my head around whether RAM or processor speed will matter more in the iOS world.
thanks!
Comments
definitely CPU is more important than RAM .. you run out of CPU sooner than out if RAM with music app in 99% of use cases...
Even most of apps based on large sample libraries havevrelative small RAM footprint - they use dosk streaming.
Especially 3gig vs 4gig makes totally no difference for music apps. On other side A10x vs. A12 makes significant difference.
In my opinion 2019 Air / Mini are best iPads for music apps.
I have suspicions that how the graphics are implemented and screen resolution has an impact on music apps performance, it seems like in some cases ipad pro's are not always the best choice.
The question is going to be hard to answer. In general for audio DSP, a faster clock is going to be helpful. ARM processors make this more difficult. They often have asymmetric cores and different levels of peripherals that may also alter the performance for your application. The A10x and A12 both have asymmetric cores. The A10x has 3 fast cores and the A12 has 2 fast cores. The difference in clock speed is minimal, 2.38 to 2.49 GHz. Graphics can actually end up being a factor too because some audio applications and plugins do a lot of graphics processing (displaying realtime audio displays can actually be fairly demanding). That's pretty hard to figure out between the A10x and the A12 because they changed GPU from PowerVR based GPU's to their own design. I'd guess that if the apps you are going to use are using Metal for doing intensive display stuff, then the A12 will win. If they are not Metal optimized, the A10x might be faster.
RAM can be even more important on an iOS system than it would be in other settings, because of the way iOS does memory management. It's completely different from a desktop OS. You have zero control with the way iOS handles what's going on in memory and it can get very harsh to applications and plugins if memory runs low. All in all on iOS, I'd lean even stronger towards more RAM.
Another point is to what is being added to processors as they advance in the iOS world. From my view, there isn't much that is actually being added to improve the DSP side of things. There is tons of stuff that is being added for AI and VR etc, but this will have little impact on DSP code. There may be some improvement of the execution of NEON instructions, but if that is important or not depends on if the app's you are running even use the NEON instructions.
Which is faster is actually going to depend a lot on the applications you use. For me I'd go with higher RAM and the ProMotion display.
Thanks for those replies... It does seem however that no-one knows exactly what's going on in the iOS audio world, I've got a couple of opposite response here for example! And every use case is going to be different due to the different apps and requirements anyway.
This is actually quite a common source of frustration for me. whether it's painting the house or buying an iPad, I end up researching maybe too much, learning about all the factors I'd never considered and which people still disagree on, and ending up more baffled than when I started. There's probably something to be said for leaping in and making the best of whatever decision you made in semi-ignorance. Perhaps. Or perhaps not...
The Geekbench scores are quite different between the 2 models I'm considering though. The question is whether lack of RAM (3 vs 4) might make that difference irrelevant. There seems to be no way of knowing other than buy buying both and doing tests. I don't think I'm going to do that...
I'd say "perhaps." I always spend a ton of time overthinking these types of decisions too. I'd also agree that no-one really knows what's going on with audio in iOS. So, maybe a data point would be more useful to you. I don't do looping, but I do run a fairly complex live guitar setup on my first gen 9.7" iPad Pro. The most complex setup I tend to run would be with my guitar that has a piezo bridge in combination with the mag pickups. I run them as a stereo out. I split the signal and do a direct from the piezo into a Behringer 404HD. I take the mag pickups and route them into an Engl Tube Preamp 530 and from there into the Behringer in stereo. This all goes into AUM setup at 48kHz and 128 frame buffer. (Note that 44.1kHz is still probably safer with external applications, but I'm stubborn.)
The mag inputs are then run through BIAS AMP or BIAS FX depending on what I want to do. I often split the mag input out to a bus send that has my plugin for sympathetic string simulation and some EQ. The piezo input gets EQ'd and some other effects. Each of the channels will usually get a limiter and probably some reverb and delay.
My 9.7" pro handles this all fine with no indication that it is struggling in a live setting. I'd guess that both the Air 3 and the newer Pro are going to be able to deal with more than my iPad can.
Personally I think there was something special about the A10x generation of iPads. Much like the Air2 before it, something seemed to click that makes this iPad generation hold up well for longer than usual.
Clearly the A12 is a faster processor. I don’t have enough info to actually argue that the extra RAM makes up for the difference, I’m sure some apps have a higher demand for RAM than others. I bought a new mini with the intention of it replacing my 10.5 Pro for commuting but ended up returning it and keeping the 10.5.
The tests clearly show that the A12 models can handle more instances etc. But for my use case (which has rarely more than one instance of any app, usually running a few resource intensive apps like Zeeon, Patterning, and the Moogs through AUM or Cubasis), the 10.5 could handle more than the mini did for me before the dreaded crackling began. I had it a week and had several music sessions with them side by side running the exact same apps before making up my mind. In fact it even performed consistently better for me than my 3rd gen 12.9 so go figure.
I still think the mini is an amazing and capable device with a perfect travel size (and so is the beautiful 3rd gen 12.9 with its stunning screen), but for me the most solid performer of all has been the 10.5 Pro. It seems that the forum crowd is split about 50/50 on this question, but since I had a week with them both I thought I would chime in! The reality is that if you are upgrading from a much older model either one will be a noticeable improvement. Good luck! 🍀☮️😎
Those are both helpful use cases, thanks. It's pretty interesting the 10.5 performed better than the new mini.
It's going to be more than an upgrade for me, as it'll be my first serious iOS device. I've experimented with a few apps on my iPhone 6S recently, and decided I can do music better in some ways on mobile devices than on my laptop. There's no real equivalent to the Lumbeat apps, or even a looper like Group the Loop in desktop land. Not to mention all the other touch focussed apps Like Gestrument etc.
I imagine I'd be going in a direction that would be a blend of the above 2 approaches... Live guitar being looped into song structures with percussion and some additional tracks using some of the cool sequencers and synths that are so prevalent and affordable (compared to desktop) in iOS land.
@NeonSilicon's description really nailed the uncertainties hidden in those SOCs (system on Chip), even emphasized by the fact that Apple's versions are highly customized.
Pro audio it's about data throughput and interupt performance, but that's a minor aspect of the overall design, which adresses the average Jane and Joe.
As strange as it may read, but an 'older' system can in fact outperform a more 'modern' design in real world use. Benchmarks are close to nonsense in the audio domain.
Fwiw this is a system graph while playing around with Audiobus session including: loopy, samplr, 4 x turnado, ToneStack and NeoSoul Keys studio which was the only app that stayed idle (I wasn’t playing it). All this at 128frames latency
The blue line is RAM and the red one CPU. The CPU spikes come from when I swipe between apps so most definitely due to graphics. This might be the only reason I think to get a more powerful CPU, to have more threshold for possible spikes. I generally always stay on samplr on the screen so don’t swipe between apps much so not an issue for me.
@marmakin funny you should say that. I tried to replace my air 2 with mini 5 and ended up getting 10.5 instead. I think I’ll upgrade it if Apple ups ram in next gen 11”.
What funky graphy / stat app is this?
System Status Lite
https://itunes.apple.com/app/id992911130
Thanks!
Not too sure how one would even parse this in terms of memory breakdown... Wired/Active/Inactive/Other/Free?
@supadom Interesting... Is that a 10.5 pro?
Well I just see a local Black Friday Deal on a 10.5 Pro for about the same price as some I was looking at second hand. So I think I'll just rush out and get it.
Yes