Loopy Pro question (split from AB 3 metronome discussion)

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: AudioBus3 - needs a METRONOME.

espiegel123

@Michael said:

@topaz said:
Any update on this ? :-)

@Michael said:
Noted

It's on my todo list, but I'm in a Loopy Pro development place right now, so it might be a little while.

Any chance that Loopy Pro will let you non-destructively change start and end time of recorded loops (and maybe even let you adjust them via MIDI)?

Michael

@espiegel123 said:
Any chance that Loopy Pro will let you non-destructively change start and end time of recorded loops (and maybe even let you adjust them via MIDI)?

I'm curious to hear about how you'd intend to use it; it doesn't make a lot of sense to provide that facility unless either you're running the session without the loops synced to each other, or unless you force the trim to be power-of-two divisions of the length (half, quarter, etc), so the loop stays in sync with the session. For the first loop recorded, that wouldn't be necessary, but if the loop's off, it's probably better to just rerecord it.

rs2000

@Michael said:

@espiegel123 said:
Any chance that Loopy Pro will let you non-destructively change start and end time of recorded loops (and maybe even let you adjust them via MIDI)?

I'm curious to hear about how you'd intend to use it; it doesn't make a lot of sense to provide that facility unless either you're running the session without the loops synced to each other, or unless you force the trim to be power-of-two divisions of the length (half, quarter, etc), so the loop stays in sync with the session. For the first loop recorded, that wouldn't be necessary, but if the loop's off, it's probably better to just rerecord it.

There's one feature I could imagine to be quite handy and that is MIDI-controlled micro-adjustment of playback offsets for each loop (maybe 0-127 mapped to -300..300 milliseconds). Like the two-finger-turn gesture in Loopy HD.
That would make it easy to eliminate any latency effects introduced when syncing Loopy to external gear, letting recording start in beat-sync but for whatever reason in the audio chain (a distant microphone could be enough reason) the delay has to be corrected afterwards.
It wouldn't be a feature I'd use often but when I need it, being able to phase-synchronize multiple loops by the turn of MIDI controller knobs would be very cool

Michael

Hmm, that sounds like a crutch, to me @rs2000.. better to have a facility for latency calibration, no?

Samu

@Michael said:

@espiegel123 said:
Any chance that Loopy Pro will let you non-destructively change start and end time of recorded loops (and maybe even let you adjust them via MIDI)?

I'm curious to hear about how you'd intend to use it; it doesn't make a lot of sense to provide that facility unless either you're running the session without the loops synced to each other, or unless you force the trim to be power-of-two divisions of the length (half, quarter, etc), so the loop stays in sync with the session. For the first loop recorded, that wouldn't be necessary, but if the loop's off, it's probably better to just rerecord it.

I can easily see a use case for this when using the 'loops' as 'one-shots'.
(ie. record one 'loop' but one-shot just portions of it).

Michael

@Samu: Yup, editing for one-shots definitely makes sense

rs2000

@Michael said:
Hmm, that sounds like a crutch, to me @rs2000.. better to have a facility for latency calibration, no?

For the way I'm using it with hardware, definitely yes.
Settings > Clock Sync should be a good place for a +/- latency slider.

espiegel123

@Michael said:
Hmm, that sounds like a crutch, to me @rs2000.. better to have a facility for latency calibration, no?

I just realized that I never got around to responding to the conversation. @Michael : I think there are a few valuable use-cases

• recording the first loop. It can be tricky to get the loop started precisely right (I.e. adjusting to the latency), often your u get the feel right but didn’t start and stop quite right. A quick trim in Loopy would let one continue the flow. I’ve seen some live performers who have some setup that lets them do something like that. Once you’ve got that first loop right, the rest of the jam usually flows well.
• For ambient, non-synched loops, it opens up a lot of possibilities for your inner Reich or Riley.

(What would really be Magic is if Loopy had an option to record a buffer that extends either side of the loop and allowed you some way to choose a selection from that to loop.)

p.s. Software being a crutch doesn’t seem like a bad thing

wim

The ability to trim loops is totally critical for me. I suck at starting and stopping loops on time.

I love the idea of a pre-post buffer that would be captured, but not part of the playback region until you either rotate into it or expand the playback region into it. That would be perfect! It would be unique on iOS as well, I think.

supadom

I believe loopy pro will have look-ahead mode.

supadom

+1 to ab metronome

Will

@espiegel123 said:
I just realized that I never got around to responding to the conversation. @Michael : I think there are a few valuable use-cases

• recording the first loop. It can be tricky to get the loop started precisely right (I.e. adjusting to the latency), often your u get the feel right but didn’t start and stop quite right. A quick trim in Loopy would let one continue the flow. I’ve seen some live performers who have some setup that lets them do something like that. Once you’ve got that first loop right, the rest of the jam usually flows well.
• For ambient, non-synched loops, it opens up a lot of possibilities for your inner Reich or Riley.

(What would really be Magic is if Loopy had an option to record a buffer that extends either side of the loop and allowed you some way to choose a selection from that to loop.)

p.s. Software being a crutch doesn’t seem like a bad thing

+1 for the inner Reich or Riley use case. Indeed, have a load of non-synchronized loops playing along with the ability to adjust the start and end points in real time sounds pretty dreamy.

Will

Not always practical in a live context but the best way I've found to nail start and end times on a loop is to play through the start and the end. That is, if your chord progression is ABCD, play the D and switch to the A when the loop starts and be switching back to A when the loop ends. Like swinging through the baseball in 'merican little league parlance.

wim

@syrupcore said:
Not always practical in a live context but the best way I've found to nail start and end times on a loop is to play through the start and the end. That is, if your chord progression is ABCD, play the D and switch to the A when the loop starts and be switching back to A when the loop ends. Like swinging through the baseball in 'merican little league parlance.

Very true. I'm much more successful with overdub enabled, and just playing a little past the end of the loop to smooth out the initial glitch as well as to avoid the usual late stopping of recording.

The shortcoming there with loopers is when you don't know in advance how long you want the loop. A before and after buffer would help with that.

Will

@wim said:

@syrupcore said:
Not always practical in a live context but the best way I've found to nail start and end times on a loop is to play through the start and the end. That is, if your chord progression is ABCD, play the D and switch to the A when the loop starts and be switching back to A when the loop ends. Like swinging through the baseball in 'merican little league parlance.

Very true. I'm much more successful with overdub enabled, and just playing a little past the end of the loop to smooth out the initial glitch as well as to avoid the usual late stopping of recording.

I actually mean without overdub enabled. I've found it most reliable to already be playing when hit record and still be playing when I hit record again to end it. This works for unknown lengths just as well — mostly learned using unsynced single-loop hardware pedals.

The shortcoming there with loopers is when you don't know in advance how long you want the loop. A before and after buffer would help with that.

I'm all for the before/after buffers idea though! It would also be really useful for doing longish cross-fades on longer ambient loops — particularly those that have effects on them coming in.

wim

@syrupcore said:

@wim said:

@syrupcore said:
Not always practical in a live context but the best way I've found to nail start and end times on a loop is to play through the start and the end. That is, if your chord progression is ABCD, play the D and switch to the A when the loop starts and be switching back to A when the loop ends. Like swinging through the baseball in 'merican little league parlance.

Very true. I'm much more successful with overdub enabled, and just playing a little past the end of the loop to smooth out the initial glitch as well as to avoid the usual late stopping of recording.

I actually mean without overdub enabled. I've found it most reliable to already be playing when hit record and still be playing when I hit record again to end it. This works for unknown lengths just as well — mostly learned using unsynced single-loop hardware pedals.

Sure, if you have a foot-switch. Kinda hard without it.

TheAudioDabbler

@wim I have been pretty happy with my USB line 6 FBV MK2 foot pedal. 4 buttons and pedal. starting a loop hands free, a pedal is almost essential.

espiegel123

@TheAudioDabbler said:
@wim I have been pretty happy with my USB line 6 FBV MK2 foot pedal. 4 buttons and pedal. starting a loop hands free, a pedal is almost essential.

And when recording a free-looped keyboard part, I wrote a little Mozaic script that sends a record-start message when the first note on comes in after I press a pad I've labeled "wait for note".

Will

@wim said:

@syrupcore said:

@wim said:

@syrupcore said:
Not always practical in a live context but the best way I've found to nail start and end times on a loop is to play through the start and the end. That is, if your chord progression is ABCD, play the D and switch to the A when the loop starts and be switching back to A when the loop ends. Like swinging through the baseball in 'merican little league parlance.

Very true. I'm much more successful with overdub enabled, and just playing a little past the end of the loop to smooth out the initial glitch as well as to avoid the usual late stopping of recording.

I actually mean without overdub enabled. I've found it most reliable to already be playing when hit record and still be playing when I hit record again to end it. This works for unknown lengths just as well — mostly learned using unsynced single-loop hardware pedals.

Sure, if you have a foot-switch. Kinda hard without it.

Right. Where "kinda hard" means "pretty much impossible". Well, if you're playing guitar or something two-handed anyway. I guess I pretty much always have a controller of some sort hooked up to loopy and if I'm looping guitar I lug out ye old FCB.

wim

@espiegel123 said:

@TheAudioDabbler said:
@wim I have been pretty happy with my USB line 6 FBV MK2 foot pedal. 4 buttons and pedal. starting a loop hands free, a pedal is almost essential.

And when recording a free-looped keyboard part, I wrote a little Mozaic script that sends a record-start message when the first note on comes in after I press a pad I've labeled "wait for note".

Great idea!

espiegel123

@wim said:

@espiegel123 said:

@TheAudioDabbler said:
@wim I have been pretty happy with my USB line 6 FBV MK2 foot pedal. 4 buttons and pedal. starting a loop hands free, a pedal is almost essential.

And when recording a free-looped keyboard part, I wrote a little Mozaic script that sends a record-start message when the first note on comes in after I press a pad I've labeled "wait for note".

Great idea!

I wrote the script when I was making my Loopy/AUM demos because I was having a heckuva time to lay down the initial kick drum part do to poor ability on my part to tap the record button and start playing right on time. There was a lot of frustration on my part till I realized that it wasn't latency in the software just poor chops on my part.

Michael

Cool ideas, guys. I'll see what I can do - I've already built the look-ahead bit, so it shouldn't be too much extra on top of that to keep audio before and after the recorded region, I guess enough so that you can increase the loop length by several bars or something, @wim?

The other thing I'm planning on doing for Pro (maybe back porting to HD) is automatic cropping of the first loop. Basically a beat detection with beat phase sync which figures out where the rhythmic bit of the loop is, and crops to that.

wim

I was more thinking of increase or decrease of the loop length by less than a measure, or even less than a beat. And I was thinking more in the decrease than increase department. It’s mainly to make up for lack of skill getting to the start and stop buttons on time.

I hadn’t thought about it from a several bars standpoint. Resampling from one loop to another shorter or longer loop could be really good for that.

Michael

Oh, okay - only, this caught my attention:

The shortcoming there with loopers is when you don't know in advance how long you want the loop. A before and after buffer would help with that.

I've already built a look-ahead recording mode, where it's always recording and when you hit record it locks in the last loop, but if you even don't know in advance the loop length you're wanting, it's gonna need something more. Of course, for normal mode you can just punch in and out whenever you like...

supadom

@wim said:

The shortcoming there with loopers is when you don't know in advance how long you want the loop. A before and after buffer would help with that.

Have you tried the ‘record without count in’ binding in ‘advanced’ settings? When triggered it will start recording until you hit it again at which point it will round up the measure and go to playback from the beginning of the loop.

That allows you to decide the length of the loop on the fly. This is one Loopy feature that kills every other looper out there.

wim

@supadom said:

@wim said:

The shortcoming there with loopers is when you don't know in advance how long you want the loop. A before and after buffer would help with that.

Have you tried the ‘record without count in’ binding in ‘advanced’ settings? When triggered it will start recording until you hit it again at which point it will round up the measure and go to playback from the beginning of the loop.

That allows you to decide the length of the loop on the fly. This is one Loopy feature that kills every other looper out there.

Thanks. I’ll work with that option a bit more. You’re right, that is helpful.

My other comments were more generated by recent exploration of completely bar-free freeform looping prompted by a thread about atmospheric style looping.

Michael

My other comments were more generated by recent exploration of completely bar-free freeform looping prompted by a thread about atmospheric style looping.

Okay, fair enough Well, it's a lot simpler to just pad out the recording with a bar or so either side, rather than managing larger amounts of extra audio - so I might just do that.

espiegel123

@Michael said:

My other comments were more generated by recent exploration of completely bar-free freeform looping prompted by a thread about atmospheric style looping.

Okay, fair enough Well, it's a lot simpler to just pad out the recording with a bar or so either side, rather than managing larger amounts of extra audio - so I might just do that.

That would be great, but if it were possible to set optionally set a large buffer for this and/or lookahead recording that would be over-top-awesome and unique.

Michael

I'll have a think about it