OT. Reaktor 6: Worth learning beyond the presets?

JohnnyGoodyear

Have a Maschine MK3 which came with lots of bits and bobs, but only in the last ten minutes have I started to poke about at Reaktor 6. Some very nice sounds it must be said. Seems that's there's all kinds of clever stuff to be done with this gizmo, but I wonder if it's worth the average fish trying to learn beyond the presets (in terms of likely realistic return etc). Welcome your insight.

espiegel123

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Have a Maschine MK3 which came with lots of bits and bobs, but only in the last ten minutes have I started to poke about at Reaktor 6. Some very nice sounds it must be said. Seems that's there's all kinds of clever stuff to be done with this gizmo, but I wonder if it's worth the average fish trying to learn beyond the presets (in terms of likely realistic return etc). Welcome your insight.

It depends on weather someone is willing to spend time learning and experimenting. Reaktor is an ultra-modular that lets you get deep into the weeds of rolling your own. People have designed some awfully cool synths in it. If Moog Model 15 or miRack are in one’s comfort zone, there is gold.

busker

Weird, anyone else seeing this topic as an announcement, pinned to the top of the forum?

thinds

Well worth dropping into the endless depths of the user library. Open them up and see how they’ve been put together https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/

MrBlaschke

@busker said:
Weird, anyone else seeing this topic as an announcement, pinned to the top of the forum?

Yup.

gusgranite

Johnny is such an attention seeker...

rs2000

@thinds said:
Well worth dropping into the endless depths of the user library. Open them up and see how they’ve been put together https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/

+1

[Deleted User]

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Have a Maschine MK3 which came with lots of bits and bobs, but only in the last ten minutes have I started to poke about at Reaktor 6. Some very nice sounds it must be said. Seems that's there's all kinds of clever stuff to be done with this gizmo, but I wonder if it's worth the average fish trying to learn beyond the presets (in terms of likely realistic return etc). Welcome your insight.

I haven’t made anything from scratch, but I have had a bit of fun editing some of the preset synths - for example, adding some fx blocks into the guts of a synth or beatmaker.

Thing with Komplete though, is there’s so much stuff to explore, and so many amazing presets already, the little time I have available for music making is tied up playing with those.

ElectroHead

Depends how much time and motivation you have to learn modular synthesis. IMO, if you get to grips with Reaktor 6, you need no other soft synths. Monarch osc and filter blocks are best sounding analogue emulations hands down.

[Deleted User]

@busker said:
Weird, anyone else seeing this topic as an announcement, pinned to the top of the forum?

Me.

ElectroHead

I say the announcement be changed to Reaktor 6: Definitely worth learning if serious about synthesis

Peblin

@MonzoPro said:
Thing with Komplete though, is there’s so much stuff to explore, and so many amazing presets already, the little time I have available for music making is tied up playing with those.

+1, I had the exact same feeling when I sat down with Reaktor over the weekend - "if I dig into this, when will I EVER have time to actually produce something?"

JohnnyGoodyear

Thanks all. I posted this by mistake as an announcement, but will now remove it thus etc. Apologies.

JohnnyGoodyear

@MonzoPro said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Have a Maschine MK3 which came with lots of bits and bobs, but only in the last ten minutes have I started to poke about at Reaktor 6. Some very nice sounds it must be said. Seems that's there's all kinds of clever stuff to be done with this gizmo, but I wonder if it's worth the average fish trying to learn beyond the presets (in terms of likely realistic return etc). Welcome your insight.

I haven’t made anything from scratch, but I have had a bit of fun editing some of the preset synths - for example, adding some fx blocks into the guts of a synth or beatmaker.

Thing with Komplete though, is there’s so much stuff to explore, and so many amazing presets already, the little time I have available for music making is tied up playing with those.

I really appreciate this. Sometimes we all need permission from someone further up the food chain I am finally realizing that there are two things often at play here: A passion to write songs and a hobby of playing about with all the bits and pieces that can go along with it these days (if you're lucky). Trouble is that the latter can have such a procrastinatory effect on the former

ashen_hand

I think that’s the legacy Reaktor has on offer, especially since blocks and then blocks went modular, it is both a players and development platform. It sounds great to me and checking out the ensembles people clap together is mind blowing sometimes. Although Reaktor exists behind that pesky Komplete paywall, it’s pretty much open source after that.
If you have a select, and know you need Reaktor, keep your eyes peeled for a cross grade serial. I copped one for $75 @ KVR.

[Deleted User]

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@MonzoPro said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Have a Maschine MK3 which came with lots of bits and bobs, but only in the last ten minutes have I started to poke about at Reaktor 6. Some very nice sounds it must be said. Seems that's there's all kinds of clever stuff to be done with this gizmo, but I wonder if it's worth the average fish trying to learn beyond the presets (in terms of likely realistic return etc). Welcome your insight.

I haven’t made anything from scratch, but I have had a bit of fun editing some of the preset synths - for example, adding some fx blocks into the guts of a synth or beatmaker.

Thing with Komplete though, is there’s so much stuff to explore, and so many amazing presets already, the little time I have available for music making is tied up playing with those.

I really appreciate this. Sometimes we all need permission from someone further up the food chain I am finally realizing that there are two things often at play here: A passion to write songs and a hobby of playing about with all the bits and pieces that can go along with it these days (if you're lucky). Trouble is that the latter can have such a procrastinatory effect on the former

I get maybe four or five hours per week to play with desktop music software - so I have to use that time constructively. So that will typically involve learning new bits of kit, exploring presets, experimenting, composing/recording, editing samples, and then mixing them down to a finished thing.

My Reaktor explorations were done when I first got Komplete, and I had a good old go through the preset ensembles, and the freely available community ones. That reminds me, I haven't checked them out for months...must do that later...

There are so many incredible ensembles available already, that it seems a bit daft using that time to build my own from scratch, and I've since had to learn Ableton, and a load of other stuff. Maybe it's something for a quiet/dull moment in the future, though there are still Komplete elements that I haven't mastered yet, such as the Tim Exile stuff.

If it was iPad based it might be different, as I have a couple of hours every night on that thing - saying that though, the modular apps I've bought remain unloved...aside from a bit of preset browsing.

That's the beauty of Komplete - unless you're a pro musician, there's enough in there for us hobbyists to explore for years. Nothing to feel guilty about - just enjoy!

ElectroHead

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

"there are two things often at play here: A passion to write songs and a hobby of playing about with all the bits and pieces that can go along with it these days (if you're lucky). Trouble is that the latter can have such a procrastinatory effect on the former "

All depends on what music you make. If synths are just backing instruments for guitar and vocals, presets will probably do. But when it comes to electronica/techno etc, patching your own sounds IMO is a big part of it.

brice

@JohnnyGoodyear if you’re looking to expand your arsenal, you can find here a handful of instruments and noise toys I’ve made with Reaktor—all are free downloads in the user library. Reaktor is capable of some pretty remarkable things, and the user library is definitely worth exploring.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/all/all/all/all/brice beasley /latest/1/all/?q=brice beasley &t=userlib

[Deleted User]

Flipping heck, I've got a lot of catching up to do - looks like I haven't browsed the community library for over a year. Time flies etc. Now for some serious browsing...

@brice said:
@JohnnyGoodyear if you’re looking to expand your arsenal, you can find here a handful of instruments and noise toys I’ve made with Reaktor—all are free downloads in the user library. Reaktor is capable of some pretty remarkable things, and the user library is definitely worth exploring.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/all/all/all/all/brice beasley /latest/1/all/?q=brice beasley &t=userlib

Cheers Mr Brice, will check those out too.

aplourde

The wonderful thing about Reaktor is that it allows the user different levels of engagement.

At the top level you can just use the, literally, thousands of ensembles that other users have created and never concern yourself with looking under the hood. Some of these are really well designed, unique instruments that would be worth the price of Reaktor alone.

One level down are Blocks. These are akin to modules in a modular synth either real, VCV Rack or miRack. They're self-contained things like oscillators, filters, envelopes, etc. and you simply patch them together. Playing in this level is straightforward and you can still create unique instruments that wouldn't exist elsewhere. For someone who wants to do some exploring but isn't a "certified boffin" this is a fun playground to inhabit. Note that Blocks were added to Reaktor with version 6, so a lot of existing instruments aren't organized at this level.

Another level down is the Primary Level and the world of instruments and "building". This is the original world of Reaktor and it's the level that most software modular platforms work at (e.g. Audulus, zMors, Jasuto). You still have oscillators, filters, envelopes, etc. but they're in a more raw state. Want a knob to tune the oscillator? You have to attach that knob yourself. This level definitely flips the musician to boffin ratio, but it allows a deeper level of customization.

Finally there's the Core Level. Here you can build low level DSP structures to create pretty much whatever you want. E.g. the modules here are things like basic math, bitwise, memory operations, etc. Non-programmers need not apply.

User library: buying a synth
Blocks: building a modular synth by buying modules
Primary Level: building a synth or module from a DIY kit
Core Level: designing a module from discrete components and writing your own code

JohnnyGoodyear

@aplourde said:
The wonderful thing about Reaktor is that it allows the user different levels of engagement.

At the top level you can just use the, literally, thousands of ensembles that other users have created and never concern yourself with looking under the hood. Some of these are really well designed, unique instruments that would be worth the price of Reaktor alone.

One level down are Blocks. These are akin to modules in a modular synth either real, VCV Rack or miRack. They're self-contained things like oscillators, filters, envelopes, etc. and you simply patch them together. Playing in this level is straightforward and you can still create unique instruments that wouldn't exist elsewhere. For someone who wants to do some exploring but isn't a "certified boffin" this is a fun playground to inhabit. Note that Blocks were added to Reaktor with version 6, so a lot of existing instruments aren't organized at this level.

Another level down is the Primary Level and the world of instruments and "building". This is the original world of Reaktor and it's the level that most software modular platforms work at (e.g. Audulus, zMors, Jasuto). You still have oscillators, filters, envelopes, etc. but they're in a more raw state. Want a knob to tune the oscillator? You have to attach that knob yourself. This level definitely flips the musician to boffin ratio, but it allows a deeper level of customization.

Finally there's the Core Level. Here you can build low level DSP structures to create pretty much whatever you want. E.g. the modules here are things like basic math, bitwise, memory operations, etc. Non-programmers need not apply.

User library: buying a synth
Blocks: building a modular synth by buying modules
Primary Level: building a synth or module from a DIY kit
Core Level: designing a module from discrete components and writing your own code

Thank you so much for this roadmap. Really very useful to me and, no doubt, to others who search for Reaktor here over time. Did I mention I love this webhole?

JohnnyGoodyear

@MonzoPro said:
Flipping heck, I've got a lot of catching up to do - looks like I haven't browsed the community library for over a year. Time flies etc. Now for some serious browsing...

@brice said:
@JohnnyGoodyear if you’re looking to expand your arsenal, you can find here a handful of instruments and noise toys I’ve made with Reaktor—all are free downloads in the user library. Reaktor is capable of some pretty remarkable things, and the user library is definitely worth exploring.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/all/all/all/all/brice beasley /latest/1/all/?q=brice beasley &t=userlib

Cheers Mr Brice, will check those out too.

EXACTLY what Mister Monz says here Mister Brice!

JohnnyGoodyear

@ElectroHead said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

"there are two things often at play here: A passion to write songs and a hobby of playing about with all the bits and pieces that can go along with it these days (if you're lucky). Trouble is that the latter can have such a procrastinatory effect on the former "

All depends on what music you make. If synths are just backing instruments for guitar and vocals, presets will probably do. But when it comes to electronica/techno etc, patching your own sounds IMO is a big part of it.

Agree with you entirely. I am of the former but get distracted Thanks for the reminder...

espiegel123

Btw, the Cloudlab Buchla-tribute for Reaktor is pretty amazing.

kinkujin

@MonzoPro said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@MonzoPro said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Have a Maschine MK3 which came with lots of bits and bobs, but only in the last ten minutes have I started to poke about at Reaktor 6. Some very nice sounds it must be said. Seems that's there's all kinds of clever stuff to be done with this gizmo, but I wonder if it's worth the average fish trying to learn beyond the presets (in terms of likely realistic return etc). Welcome your insight.

I haven’t made anything from scratch, but I have had a bit of fun editing some of the preset synths - for example, adding some fx blocks into the guts of a synth or beatmaker.

Thing with Komplete though, is there’s so much stuff to explore, and so many amazing presets already, the little time I have available for music making is tied up playing with those.

I really appreciate this. Sometimes we all need permission from someone further up the food chain I am finally realizing that there are two things often at play here: A passion to write songs and a hobby of playing about with all the bits and pieces that can go along with it these days (if you're lucky). Trouble is that the latter can have such a procrastinatory effect on the former

I get maybe four or five hours per week to play with desktop music software - so I have to use that time constructively. So that will typically involve learning new bits of kit, exploring presets, experimenting, composing/recording, editing samples, and then mixing them down to a finished thing.

My Reaktor explorations were done when I first got Komplete, and I had a good old go through the preset ensembles, and the freely available community ones. That reminds me, I haven't checked them out for months...must do that later...

There are so many incredible ensembles available already, that it seems a bit daft using that time to build my own from scratch, and I've since had to learn Ableton, and a load of other stuff. Maybe it's something for a quiet/dull moment in the future, though there are still Komplete elements that I haven't mastered yet, such as the Tim Exile stuff.

If it was iPad based it might be different, as I have a couple of hours every night on that thing - saying that though, the modular apps I've bought remain unloved...aside from a bit of preset browsing.

That's the beauty of Komplete - unless you're a pro musician, there's enough in there for us hobbyists to explore for years. Nothing to feel guilty about - just enjoy!

Wow, it's nice to know that the people you admire for their knowledge and musical output struggle with the same things you do. I feel better about myself. I'm in exactly this same situation - big ambitions, little time, lots of music tech available. Fortunately, it's about the only thing I want to spend my "free" time with so ...
Good luck to you passionate hobbyists.

[Deleted User]

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Have a Maschine MK3 which came with lots of bits and bobs, but only in the last ten minutes have I started to poke about at Reaktor 6. Some very nice sounds it must be said. Seems that's there's all kinds of clever stuff to be done with this gizmo, but I wonder if it's worth the average fish trying to learn beyond the presets (in terms of likely realistic return etc). Welcome your insight.

Set yourself a year aside and plan 2hrs per day for 5 days a week to learn it...

...I tend to be too romantic about this type of thing and end up in the doodlers vortex...

...this is an amazing example of its capabilities though...

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/8572/

JohnnyGoodyear

@DaveMagoo said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Have a Maschine MK3 which came with lots of bits and bobs, but only in the last ten minutes have I started to poke about at Reaktor 6. Some very nice sounds it must be said. Seems that's there's all kinds of clever stuff to be done with this gizmo, but I wonder if it's worth the average fish trying to learn beyond the presets (in terms of likely realistic return etc). Welcome your insight.

Set yourself a year aside and plan 2hrs per day for 5 days a week to learn it...

...I tend to be too romantic about this type of thing and end up in the doodlers vortex...

...this is an amazing example of its capabilities though...

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/8572/

Thanks Dave. Probably good advice, but if I could bring that kind of daily discipline to bear I think I'd apply it to m̶y̶ ̶m̶a̶r̶r̶i̶a̶g̶e̶ one of my many unwritten novels

ecamburn

I’ve found a middle ground aided by this fellow Brent Kallmer who seems to have fallen off the face of the earth about 6 years ago but whose excellent tutorials persist on YouTube. His videos explain how many of the coolest (IMO) ensembles work and how to click existing ensembles together like Legos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bkallmer

JohnnyGoodyear

@ecamburn said:
I’ve found a middle ground aided by this fellow Brent Kallmer who seems to have fallen off the face of the earth about 6 years ago but whose excellent tutorials persist on YouTube. His videos explain how many of the coolest (IMO) ensembles work and how to click existing ensembles together like Legos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bkallmer

Thank you. Really appreciate the suggestion. Seems like he's still around, so am going to get into his back catalog before he changes his mind Thanks again.

NoiseFloored

Out of total ignorance: is Reaktor, below the Blocks level, comparable to Pure Data or Max/MSP?

[Deleted User]

@kinkujin said:

@MonzoPro said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@MonzoPro said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Have a Maschine MK3 which came with lots of bits and bobs, but only in the last ten minutes have I started to poke about at Reaktor 6. Some very nice sounds it must be said. Seems that's there's all kinds of clever stuff to be done with this gizmo, but I wonder if it's worth the average fish trying to learn beyond the presets (in terms of likely realistic return etc). Welcome your insight.

I haven’t made anything from scratch, but I have had a bit of fun editing some of the preset synths - for example, adding some fx blocks into the guts of a synth or beatmaker.

Thing with Komplete though, is there’s so much stuff to explore, and so many amazing presets already, the little time I have available for music making is tied up playing with those.

I really appreciate this. Sometimes we all need permission from someone further up the food chain I am finally realizing that there are two things often at play here: A passion to write songs and a hobby of playing about with all the bits and pieces that can go along with it these days (if you're lucky). Trouble is that the latter can have such a procrastinatory effect on the former

I get maybe four or five hours per week to play with desktop music software - so I have to use that time constructively. So that will typically involve learning new bits of kit, exploring presets, experimenting, composing/recording, editing samples, and then mixing them down to a finished thing.

My Reaktor explorations were done when I first got Komplete, and I had a good old go through the preset ensembles, and the freely available community ones. That reminds me, I haven't checked them out for months...must do that later...

There are so many incredible ensembles available already, that it seems a bit daft using that time to build my own from scratch, and I've since had to learn Ableton, and a load of other stuff. Maybe it's something for a quiet/dull moment in the future, though there are still Komplete elements that I haven't mastered yet, such as the Tim Exile stuff.

If it was iPad based it might be different, as I have a couple of hours every night on that thing - saying that though, the modular apps I've bought remain unloved...aside from a bit of preset browsing.

That's the beauty of Komplete - unless you're a pro musician, there's enough in there for us hobbyists to explore for years. Nothing to feel guilty about - just enjoy!

Wow, it's nice to know that the people you admire for their knowledge and musical output struggle with the same things you do. I feel better about myself. I'm in exactly this same situation - big ambitions, little time, lots of music tech available. Fortunately, it's about the only thing I want to spend my "free" time with so ...
Good luck to you passionate hobbyists.

Thank, you too.

Yeah that’s the problem for us hobbyists, we’re very restricted with how much time (and money) we have to spend on our chosen pastime. For me, my favourite part is having a new finished track or album to listen back to - so in a way the mechanics of achieving this are less important than the finished project, and graphics, titles, concepts etc. are all part of the final thing.

If I was doing this full time I’d definitely be diving more into the guts of modular synthesis, and if I had the money I’d invest in some hardware. As it stands, that would be a separate hobby in itself, and I just don’t have the time.

My own output has become a lot more experimental of late, maybe that’s a reflection of the time constraints I have. I’ve got about ten half finished Horse Gas tracks which are more ‘serious’ endeavours and I’m quite pleased with, but the level of technical and musical skill required to finish them off (there’s a fair bit of traditional instrumentation in them too) is hard to muster up when you only have an hour here or there to spare. So instead I’ll boot up a load of synths and samplers and make a new racket, for one of my experimental projects!

But yeah, Reaktor is a wonderful thing, and I need to get up to speed on a years worth of community ensembles!