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FWIW, when I plan on using my long cathedral and mosque IRs on a track, I generally use them during mixing. If I need to hear a similar reverb during tracking, I’ll use (without printing) a lightweight algorithmic reverb and substitute the convolution reverb when mixing.
@espiegel123 it’s always so funny hearing that “convolution” is different than “algorithmic.” I get that they are labels used in a different context here than “regular” math.
They're completely different things, not just different labels.
I still cannot figure out the right settings for setting up a quad output..
How can I load two IR's into THAFKAR and do I have to set the "Parallelise"-option in the settings?
Also is the Input method "Mix" or "Stereo"?
Or do i have to load in a single file with 4 channels and set the input to "Mix"?
/edit:
found the solution:
polaron.de/Thafknar/AboutImpulseResponsesAndConvolution.html
"For processing mode Quad, the convolutions are done like explained for "True Stereo" in https://www.liquidsonics.com, and the IR files must be named like (name) L.(extension) and (name) R.(extension). Any one of the two IR files can be selected – Thafknar will automatically load the other file, too. If there is no corresponding second file, then Thafknar will show a warning and use Stereo mode."
and:
"Some examples may help to illustrate the usage of these parameters. We refer to the above discussion:
For the base case where audio in and IR are mono, take Input = Left, Processing = Left.
For the ideal case where audio in is mono and the IR is stereo, take Input = Left, Processing = Stereo.
For "Parallel Stereo" where audio in and IR are stereo, take Input = Stereo, Processing = Stereo.
For "True Stereo" where audio in and (two) IRs are stereo, take Input = Stereo, Processing = Quad."
Somehow this sound more "muddy" to me..is this because of the broader stereo field? because in the output section all channels are flagged green
The output is stereo. THAFKNAR automatically mixes things (as it should -- just like Altiverb)
The "quad" aspect is internal. (This is, btw, standard). Quad merely means that there are four IR channels for processing. The left input to the reverb gets process through one IR pair and the right input gets processed through another IR pair. In THAFKAR's case, each IR pair is contained in a stereo IR.
For true stereo (quad) IRs in thafknar, you need two stereo IRs that were correctly created to be a stereo IR pair. Let's call the two IRs "myIR - L.wav" and "myIR - R.wav".
In THAFKNAR, if you choose quad mode and choose and choose an IR that ends with 'L', it will look to see if there is a similarly named file that ends with 'R'. If there is it will due true stereo (quad) processing.
For this to work, you need to use Stereo as the input. The non-stereo options are for non-true-stereo situations.
thank you SO much, my mistake was not putting a space between the "L"/"R" in the filenames, so there MUST be a gap between the filename and the "L.(extension)" / "R.(extension)".
Now it works, but still it is somehow strange that the quad reverb sounds a little more distanced compared to the stereo reverb.
However it is significantly better than before. So this means that either I get used to the fact that true quad stereo is indeed much wider soundwise compared to stereo, but therefore represents the spatial sound more accurate. However I just realized that "normal" stereo somehow sounds a little mire directional and brighter, which comes in handy for more "musical" approaches, but also sounds definitely more "colored" in comparsion to true quad stereo.
Btw: Using the quad reverb eats up 45% of my DSP, but the good thing is that I have all the files as either mono, stereo or quad IR's, so your suggested workaround of using less processor heavy "dummy" reverbs for sculpting and applying the "real" reverb at the end of the mixing is really a very good advice, thanks for that!
So much to learn still in this world of reverbs XD
True stereo reverbs are not necessarily wider than others. It all depends on the space where the IRS were created and the spacing of impulse generator and the capture mics. I have quite a few IR sets from the same location where they captured the same space with different setups. Keep in mind that the only time you would use a quad IR is if you are applying it to stereo source material. There is no reason to use one on a mono signal (including two channel sources where both channels are identical).
There is nothing about true stereo IRs that will make them necessarily brighter or more spacious or anything than IRs that aren’t four channel IRs. It all comes down to the specific IR and how it was created.
Are you using IRs that were created as four channel IRs in real spaces?
In a lot of cases, there is no benefit to true stereo ... with a lot of material the improved accuracy doesn’t necessarily translate to “sounds better”. In fact, the realism often manifests itself as true stereo seeming less directional for huge spaces than algorithmic reverbs that are doing stereo.
I've recorded the IR in a church with a significant 8sec+ reverb. My setup was an IRT cross, recorded with a MixPre 10 II in 32bit float dor additional headroom to level down the initial "bang" and get more out of the material.
I've used four identical Mics as 2 sets of matched stereo pairs. However my result is just as you described it: The quad "true stereo" sounds definitely closer to the "original" reverb of the church, while the mixdown of one stereo pair sounded more directional. It's definitely two different flavors of the same material, and I am really thankfuf for what I have learned here so far
Most of the quad (true stereo) IRs that I have were created by using the same capture mics in the same positions for the left impulse and right impulse. For instance, capture mics at the back of the cathedral or mid-way down the main corridor and speakers on the left and right side of the stage. First the impulse from the left front is record with the capture mics and then the stage right impulse is captured with the same mics. So, the capture mics are positioned the same for each impulse (which are recorded separately.
Were your mics set up differently?
my approach is way more basic: I use two pairs of LOM Uši Pro mics tied to two stereo bars arranged in IRT cross with a jecklin discs for seperating each stereo pair channel.
Then I use a simple balloon, which I make burst at a distance of about 30cm above the Setup.
Depending on the room I am looking for the "sweet spot" that i am interested in and this is my absolute position.
Not the most advanced technique, but the results are quite good so far
How do you pronounce Thafknar.... "Thaf...Kuh.... Nar" ? three syllables?... ok ok it's true no one should waste too much time on this... kind of funny though because I use the app all the time so I often try and say the name in my head automatically
I thought it was thaf-nar, the ‘k’ being silent as in ‘know’
(I know it’s an acronym so it doesn’t really follow but it’s easier to say than “knar” and I’m lazy)
lol... yeah maybe the K is silent... definitely easier to say
I'm surprised that there hasn't been any real talk about one of the great creative features introduced in the last update. The ability to set different background and foreground IRs which the app then crossfades between during the length of the convolution. Not much, if any control over the crossfade, and the app doesn't appear to be able to save these combination effects as presets. It's a really great feature for special effects though, and one that very nearly caused me to put an order in for a Tasty Chips ECR-1.
For me, the K is not silent. I speak it like "Tough - Khnarr". But there is no law that would force you to pronounce it that way.
It ought to do this. If not, then I will fix it in the next release.
Markus: if there were a way to set the relative strength of the 2-IR cross fade that would be great.
When using two IRs are they run in series or on parallel and the result mixed?
This would be very useful; though it's not a difficult job to export the IRs to an audio editor, adjust their relative levels and re-import as a new set to Thafknar. I had been doing just that, along with the crossfading of multiple IRs, in various audio editing apps, long before the last update. A great app for sure; a pleasure to use...
I will have a look at it.
The app creates a combined IR and feeds this to the convolution engine.
Problem confirmed, cause identified, will be fixed in version 7.7. The range selection seems to behave bitchy, too, in presets.
It works. The presets that I used for testing were old and did not have a saved range, so the current range did not change. I think in this case the audio unit should select the full range.
I didn't know it could do this.
I must try it soon.
Nice one.
Is there any talk about this app being auv at some point?
It already is. I think there is an IAP involved
Ahh ok cool I’ll look into that