AUM: Bus Sends At 100% Wet Still Goes To Channel Output?

Helder

Hi,

Maybe I”m missing something, but if I set up three channels, each receiving separate audio from a hardware interface, and all of them having as output the main output in the interface, and then I set up a send on each channel to go to a Mix Bus A, even if the send to bus is pre-fader and at 100% wet, the audio in each channel still goes on, pass the send, to the main output...Shouldn”t the audio be cut off if the send to bus in each channel is at 100%, and the Mix Bus A is muted?

Thanks!

Helder

Here is a picture of the setup: no sound should be coming out in this setup, I believe, yet it does! (Turnado is freezing the bus sound here)

wim

The bus send isn't a dry/wet control. it's just a send amount. So, you're duplicating the signal.

You either need to simply set the output of the channel to the mix bus, not using the bus send, or you need to mute the channel. Or, if the FX plugin on the mix bus has a dry/wet control, set that to 100% wet.

Samu

Put the 'send' to Group A where the USB 1-2 output is on the track to really group them.
As it is now it's only normal that output goes to USB 1-2. the 'send' has nothing to do with it, it's not a wet/dry mix.

Helder

Ok, got it. Thanks.

But is there a way to set it up so I could have a true wet/dry control on a channel? I want to be able to perform effects live and decide which channels would be affected by the effect at any given time.

Say I have drums on one channel, and a synth on the other. I might want to, for example, filter both, or only the drums, or only the synth at any given time, and I wanted to control what goes in via midi. Is this not possible?

wim

If you use FX that have their own Wet/Dry controls, and expose those so that they can be controlled externally, that's the best way.

There are other ways you could do it ...

• Mute the channel and use two sends. One to a "Dry" mix bus and one to the FX channel. Then link the send controls in opposite directions for the same midi linkage.
• Use a pre-fader send, then link the channel volume opposite to the send.
• ... probably others if I thought about it hard enough.

wim

Ape Matrix is kinda good at those kind of things in a different way of presenting things.

Helder

@wim said:
If you use FX that have their own Wet/Dry controls, and expose those so that they can be controlled externally, that's the best way.

There are other ways you could do it ...

• Mute the channel and use two sends. One to a "Dry" mix bus and one to the FX channel. Then link the send controls in opposite directions for the same midi linkage.
• Use a pre-fader send, then link the channel volume opposite to the send.
• ... probably others if I thought about it hard enough.

Those are good ideas, I will try them out! A shame there isn”t a more direct way though, as those kind of midi mappings could glitch audio somehow and not be so smooth.

Thanks for the other app advice, but I just got AUM and would like to stick to one app only if I can.

espiegel123

@Helder said:
Here is a picture of the setup: no sound should be coming out in this setup, I believe, yet it does! (Turnado is freezing the bus sound here)

If you have the send pre-fader, just set the faders to 0. That will send the audio to the send bus but won't send any audio out the bottom.

Another way of routing if you don't want the dry signal at all, is to have the channel outputs going to Bus A without using a send node at all. Then the fader becomes the send level.

Janosax

Or just remove the output node.

aplourde

Using MIDI to control the dry and wet sounds in opposite directions is definitely the best way. However, you could do it in-the-box in AUM by inverting the phase of one channel and using a fader to crossfade between the dry and wet sources.

Here you use the third channel (CROSSFADE) to adjust the level between the dry and wet signals (you have to make sure your effect in the second channel is set to 100% wet). Here the third channel is around 50% Wet /Dry. If it was all the way down it would be dry signal only (coming through Bus B ). If the third channel was at +-0db it would be full wet (the phase inverted dry signal going to Bus C would cancel with the dry signal going to Bus B )

Obviously, as you add more channels, this gets a lot more complex (assuming you want separate controls for each channel; if you just want a global wet/dry feed everything to the same busses). So, maybe not really a practical solution, but it does work and may be a way to play around and learn more about how AUM and mixers in general work?

Helder

@aplourde said:
Using MIDI to control the dry and wet sounds in opposite directions is definitely the best way. However, you could do it in-the-box in AUM by inverting the phase of one channel and using a fader to crossfade between the dry and wet sources.

Here you use the third channel (CROSSFADE) to adjust the level between the dry and wet signals (you have to make sure your effect in the second channel is set to 100% wet). Here the third channel is around 50% Wet /Dry. If it was all the way down it would be dry signal only (coming through Bus B ). If the third channel was at +-0db it would be full wet (the phase inverted dry signal going to Bus C would cancel with the dry signal going to Bus B )

Obviously, as you add more channels, this gets a lot more complex (assuming you want separate controls for each channel; if you just want a global wet/dry feed everything to the same busses). So, maybe not really a practical solution, but it does work and may be a way to play around and learn more about how AUM and mixers in general work?

Thanks, that is quite creative indeed! I will try it out. But as you say, it gets very complex fast...

Helder

I took a look at apeMatrix and it seems interesting also.

Do you think it could be easier and more straight forward to do this kind of routings in ape matrix? Can it also be controlled via midi (all knobs and switches - including the on/off switches of each matrix connections) as AUM can?

I see it can be rooted to AUM also, which is amazing, and may help in what I would like to achieve.

Also: can apeMatrix accept hardware audio and midi inputs and outputs (I have a UMC1820)? From the videos I saw it seems to work only with AU/IAA??

Helder

Well, in case someone else is interested I found a way to do it.

I mapped the same midi cc (an on/off toggle button, not a continuous knob) to both the bypass on the send to bus A and to mute in each of the audio channels going into the bus A with turnado. In this way I can toggle the audio channels I want to be going into the effects in Bus A, or directly to the main output, live in realtime.

aplourde

Yeah, that’s the way @wim suggested (and I alluded to, before the phase cancelling thought experiment).

You can use a continuous controller to get a variable wet/dry control, by mapping both the pre-fade send and channel volume to the same controller, but inverting the ranges (so one goes up while the other goes down when moving the controller)

Helder

Yes, thank you! I only need AUM now! Does anyone else uses AUM with their MPCs? It works great. Midi clock sync and all. Now I wished I had more outs on my 1000...:)

MonkeyDrummer

@aplourde said:
Yeah, that’s the way @wim suggested (and I alluded to, before the phase cancelling thought experiment).

You can use a continuous controller to get a variable wet/dry control, by mapping both the pre-fade send and channel volume to the same controller, but inverting the ranges (so one goes up while the other goes down when moving the controller)

Btw, because it’s not super obvious how you control the mapping, here’s some screen shots that show process of simply inverting midi control

Janosax

@MonkeyDrummer great tip!! Thanks!!