HomeSpun / Korg Monumental Choir

LinearLineman

Well worth $9.99, the Korg Module inapp is very clear and immediate with many variations. You can hear it soloed till 00:25 when my favorite soprano voice, ISymphonic Soprano plus Strings (Tosca inapp. I always edit out the low strings) adds the Sergio Morricone vibe.

BeatHawk Baroque guitar and Celeste plus BeatHawk double bass pizz.

McD

Nice compositional work, Mike.

But it's hard for me to get past the sampling defects (as I see them).

COMMENTS ON THE QUALITY OF AUDIO ILLUSIONS:

The first 25 seconds were close to sounding like a recording of a choir but the iSymphonic soprano's attack was unconvincing.

So, I opened one up and added "Attack Softner" and "Atmosphere Reverb" with some diffusion and it helped convince me to re-consider this iSymphonic preset. That strong attack just sounds too much like a computerized voice to me. But now I have some tools to
help fix the attacks. EQ's and Reverbs can work wonders on the sustains and release.

So, thanks for the start comparison. I should also re-visit the ersatz mellotron app that need audio work to sound more like the real deal.

The Module Monumental Choirs are my favorite so far "out of the box" without extra treatment required.

mjcouche

@McD I’m curious to hear the results with attack softener, still been holding off on buying.

@LinearLineman I really enjoyed the “background” instrumentation on this one. IMO BeatHawk has some of the best sounding samples, including choirs. The guitar is amazing. When I am using the Jammy guitar (midi controller with real strings etc) I use it with BeatHawk to get the most realistic sound and I can almost fool myself that I’m playing the real thing.

McD

@mjcouche said:
@McD I’m curious to hear the results with attack softener, still been holding off on buying.

NOTE: I only needed the Attack Softener for the iSymphony "Strings with Soprano" that enters at the 25 second mark.

The Korg Monumental Choir samples have very natural sounding attacks for me and no looping artifacts. It's 1GB of really nice samples. I recommend it for anyone that wants natural sounding choirs for IOS DAW's.

But... here's a little audio sample of the iSymphonic Soprano with Attack Softener and extra Reverb added:

To me the original soprano sounds like she's articulating
an abrupt Bah-Bah-Dah. I can use it for traditional choir purposes
but the attack softened version I could see using. So, I auto-sampled it
into AudioLayer and will have it quick and easy. AudioLayer also lets me continue to play with the ADSR envelope if the release is too short or I want a really slow swelling attack.

LinearLineman

@mjcouche, Module also provides an attack slider within. There are several controls for altering the character of a patch including a cutoff. I used that to tweak the choir sound above.

@McD, I don’t seem to have the need to emulate most instruments with their real world counterparts (except piano and sometimes bass). I consider myself fortunate in that respect. Of course, I can’t help but make the comparison, but my acceptance of stuff simply for their sonic content is way high. So, if getting the “real” sound doesn’t matter, I guess there is no problem (for me). That does not mean that I don’t identify the opening choir notes above as varying from more authentic to less authentic.

If we heard a Beethoven orchestra from 1800, with the piano having been shlepped from Ludwig’s apartment, in the rain (No steel harp back then, remember) to the hall, and the players with a weird array of quality and non quality instruments, our critical ears would have been sorely disappointed. Maybe LVB was lucky he was deaf! I guess the question is did those listeners and players enjoy the music any less?

JohnnyGoodyear

@LinearLineman said:
@mjcouche, Module also provides an attack slider within. There are several controls for altering the character of a patch including a cutoff. I used that to tweak the choir sound above.

@McD, I don’t seem to have the need to emulate most instruments with their real world counterparts (except piano and sometimes bass). I consider myself fortunate in that respect. Of course, I can’t help but make the comparison, but my acceptance of stuff simply for their sonic content is way high. So, if getting the “real” sound doesn’t matter, I guess there is no problem (for me). That does not mean that I don’t identify the opening choir notes above as varying from more authentic to less authentic.

If we heard a Beethoven orchestra from 1800, with the piano having been shlepped from Ludwig’s apartment, in the rain (No steel harp back then, remember) to the hall, and the players with a weird array of quality and non quality instruments, our critical ears would have been sorely disappointed. Maybe LVB was lucky he was deaf! I guess the question is did those listeners and players enjoy the music any less?

IN THE RAIN!

McD

@LinearLineman said:
@McD, I don’t seem to have the need to emulate most instruments with their real world counterparts

That explains it then but it also factors into my desire to play more of your work. But critics can influence the artist if there are consistent messages to call out an issue.

I think it also would be a filter many traditional jazz musicians would apply to your albums so plan accordingly. "It's... uh... uh... interesting." when they would like to say "Fake sounding."

I like to see if I can slip the technology past that filter and get to a consideration of other creative factors.

There's Steely Dan tune where the Donald plays a sax solo and it's so sad. But I'm sure he was proud of his creation and as the producer no one could stop him. I have similar issues with artists that play out of tune or play instruments that need tuning.

Now you're getting some feedback on the suitability of a marimba in a string ensemble.
It's like someone seasoning your food for you when you don't like garlic. There's taste and there's tasteless and it's a scale. Like all art... it's your call.

There is a time and a place for a marimba. It suffers from proximity to the xylophone which has an association with cartoon skeletons that live in it's closet. Too bad but hard to ignore as a musical cliche.

LinearLineman

@JohnnyGoodyear, yes, in the rain. I saw it with my own eyes! (as opposed to someone else’s)

@McD. Firstly. Degustibus non est disputandum. Second, my stuff is mostly inconsequential to anyone but me. Thirdly, when I am gone my music will be gone Or shortly thereafter. Fourthly, the jazz musicians I know will definitely react as you say, but mostly I think their stuff is often repetitive and mediocre and is pretty inconsequential to anyone but them. Lastly, Monk was a genius, got beat up (not as bad as Bud Powell) went to prison and was schizophrenic. In other words you can’t win for losing. So, as Bette Midler said, Why Botha?

oat_phipps

The only female vocal sample I like is the one from the Fairlight. You know, the Kate Bush one

mjcouche

@McD okay you sold me on Attack Softener. That sounds much more realistic. Very good ear to know what to do with that.

McD

@mjcouche said:
@McD okay you sold me on Attack Softener. That sounds much more realistic. Very good ear to know what to do with that.

I think we all want an ADSR envelope AUv3 tool and we're pretty close. Attack Soften
handles fixing overly fast attacks. But I think my long term solution is to use AudioLayer and the new Auto-sample feature. Then I can apply ADSR's in AudioLayer to the volume and filter implementation of the saved sample clone. I did that with the iSymphonic soprano and it's much better for my needs and also has the great pitch and tone quality of the original... but it turns on gently and naturally now. Doing it in a sample clone makes it work correctly on a per note basis whereas Attack Softener will only work with monophonic melodies with non-overlapping notes.

Adding extra reverb goes a long way towards providing an after market Release capability
for use cases where you want extra sustain. FAC Transient does a reasonable job in the other direction... taking away a reverb tail from each note.

FAC Envolver can get you close to an ADRS envelope if you side chain the melody with a percussive envelope source by converting the transient envelopes into MIDI CC waveforms that can be applied to the target's volume parameter.

Now that final nit I need to be able to pick out of a project is the unintended vibrato that
shows up in some otherwise excellent sampled instruments. There probably won't be a fix for that unless someone makes an incredibly fast and agile (but it could be a batch process too) AutoTune FX tool. I know the AudioKit dev behind the AudioTune app wants to tackle this but we'll see what comes of it.

LinearLineman

@McD can you post an A-B with Attack Softener on the Soprano patch, please?

McD

OK. Here's some Bach for the iSymphonic Tosca "Strings and Soprano" preset.

I turn the Attck Softener FX on and then off approximately every 5 seconds.

0-5 off
6-10 on
11-15 off
16-20 on
... to the end.
NOTE: The Attack Softener also had a Depth parameter which adds a touch of reverb.
I set the Attack knob around 2 O'clock and depth at 2 as well.

To me the original preset sounds like an organ patch. The Korg samples are handled with more precision to insure the attack is a natural recording.

The Attack Softener removes the "Ha" attack from the voices which sounds artificial to me
and it comes out "Ah" which is a typical choir patch. Ah and/or Ooh. Then there's those Swingle Singer Dooh's and Dah's but "Hah!" is rarely needed except to simulate laughing,
IMHO and when I hear it it just shows a lack of attention by the sample maker. A few iSymphonic samples have serious flaws but overall it's generally a good investment.
One thing that drives me crazy is that the ins't a sample in the whole collection of a single
snare drum note: just rolls and flams. But finding snare drums isn't that hard but it's strange they didn't bother to include one.

LinearLineman

Thanks @McD. Interesting.

McD

@LinearLineman said:
Thanks @McD. Interesting.

Ha, Ha.

mjcouche

@McD Ha. Thank you. Would you recommend AudioLayer for sampling the *free Spitfire BBC orchestra from PC onto iOS?

LinearLineman

@McD, ha, ha, ha and raise you a heh heh. Actually, I might get it.

McD

@LinearLineman said:
@McD, ha, ha, ha and raise you a heh heh. Actually, I might get it.

Being bored I'm going to look about for some details on the spectral constituents of
vocalized vowels - A,E,I,O,U. Can a Dooh-dooh be shifted to a Dee-Dee with an EQ
adjustment? I think EQ assumes the new frequencies exist in the source so this may be
something more magical that generates new frequencies. I'm not hopeful but we shall see.

Google! Wake up.

McD

OK. Insight #1 - consider the position of the tongue when making these vowel sounds:

Ah - tongue most relaxed - middle of mouth
Eyee - tongue arched close to the upper palette
Oh - tongue pushed downward for maximum out cavity

The sound source is the vocal cord so this sure seems like an EQ and resonance physical function.

Insight #2: It's a lot more complex than adjusting EQ. The whole mouth is the source... it's the instrument itself and the frequencies coming out are the spectral result of that physical chamber.

LinearLineman

@McD ... all I can say is... uh.

McD

@LinearLineman said:
@McD ... all I can say is... uh.

Uh is a weird one. Say it a few times and see what you think makes that sound in the throat.
I think it's the glottis. Talk about a hard attack.

LinearLineman

Uh-uh @McD.