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Two inputs (mic/guitar): send them individually or combined to looping app, and change it using MIDI
Hello guys
I have an interface with two inputs: to one I connect my guitar, to the other my microphone.
From within my looping app (Group the Loop, GTL, https://grouptheloop.com/) I can select whether I want to record the first channel (guitar), or the second (voice), or both (guitar and mic).
I'm now looking for a way to:
1) Record one input (e.g. guitar) in GTL while still sending the other input (e.g. voice) to the main out. This way I can record the guitar while singing verse 1, then simply repeat the recorded guitar in GTL for verse 2 while continuing to sing.
2) Change this on the fly while looping. So I want to be able to change which inputs are sent to GTL (for recording them). This way I can choose whether I want to record only guitar, only my voice, or both. The other input should also always be sent to the main out.
I have an iRig BlueBoard MIDI foot controller which should be useful here. But I played around quite a lot already andI wasn't really able to come up with a solution. First I tried to just assign different MIDI commands to the input selection within GTL, but in GTL I only ever hear what is recorded, so e.g. I can't hear my voice while only recording my guitar.
I suppose that I somehow need to set up Audiobus so it sends only the input that I want to record to GTL, and that I can somehow change that using MIDI. But I couldn't find a solution. Any ideas?
If it helps: I also own AUM.
Thank you.
Comments
I haven't fully tested, but I think this might do the trick. The key is to be sure to turn input monitoring off in GTL, and to listen to your guitar and mic inputs and GTL each through the speaker output. Then just mute what you don't want to hear at any time. The mute buttons can be mapped to midi controls ... as can the Rec button for GTL too, now that I think of it. That makes four buttons ... could work with the Blueboard nicely ... maybe.
Normally this kind of thing can be slightly easier in AUM, but in this case GTL isn't able to be loaded in the FX slot in AUM so that it can receive from bus sends. I'm guessing there's a way to do it by adding AUM into GTL via IAA, but the Audiobus route seems more straightforward if it works for you.
Here’s how you can do it in AUM, use midi learn to bypass the sends as required. As @wim says for Audiobus, turn the monitoring off in GTL. Normally I’d have the outputs going to a master channel with FX, but I couldn’t fit that on the screenshot. The input in GTL shows as AUM.
For what it’s worth and for many not necessarily definitive reasons, I mostly use Audiobus with Quantiloop, AUM for GTL and AB and AUM for Loopy.
Thank you guys, this looks promising.
Will I need to assign a MIDI knob to each channel, and then manually press all of them in the needed combination? This would be cumbersome while performing live. Or is it possible to assign a single MIDI knob for each combination?
I will take a look at it tomorrow.
I'm not sure I can answer because I don't really understand what you're thinking.
I count only three "knobs" (switches if you're using the Blueboard) needed:
Leaving one free for other duties in GTL.
Remember: You're only listening to the live inputs through the speakers/headphones, not through GTL because you need to turn monitoring OFF in this setup. Anything you've recorded already comes from GTL.
In the AUM setup your live inputs are always open and going to the main out. I’d use one midi assignment for each of the two sends on/off, plus whatever you need in GTL. Not too much foot dancing there?
@wim apologies for any duplication in simul-posts
Nope, I knew it could also be done in AUM but was too lazy to think it through. Glad you did. 👍🏼
As I'm performing live, I need to switch very quickly between different configurations. The more buttons I have to press, the less precise I will be.
For example, to switch from recording my voice to recording the guitar between two recordings, I would need to instantly turn off the voice and turn on the guitar, which means two key presses. It would be nice if I would only need one key press though. If I use two keys next to each other, I could probably press both of them in one go.
Maybe I could tweak this by using Midiflow or similar?
I think you can partially do that in AUM, one midi control can operate two things, but you’d have to keep an eye on the current state - I.e. each control will toggle to its opposite state.
From the AUM setup I posted earlier you could set up more complex send options, I.e the same sends but combined in different combinations on different channels.
Have a go I reckon, you’ll find new tricks on the way.
You can map more than one action to the same midi message. Button A can easily mute voice, unmute guitar, and hit record with a single tap. You just need to think through what the combinations you need are.
Can I ask you to describe or screenshot your AUM+Loopy setup?
Try this in AUM:
I can do this later if you still need, but mine was completely inspired by @espiegel123, who provided video tutorials here:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/35415/loopy-aum-audiobus-video-series.
I’ve had it set up with multiple sends and returns to and from Loopy via AB, but it doesn’t need to be that complex, vocal and guitar sends and one return is rock solid. The best thing about this is the AB state saving, save and reload the preset there and all is good for AUM and Loopy.
Purrrfect. 😻 Thank you!
Thanks guys. I will take a deeper look at these tutorials, and will try to create a version which works with GTL.
Thanks guys, I was able to re-create the proposed setup in AUM. Finally! It's getting funky now, how much fun it is to loop my own voice and guitar independently!
Wow, I didn't hear of Quantiloop until now. It seems to have basic song structures, too! I will have to take a look at it then.
Could you tell me a bit what's the difference to GTL, @steve99? And what you're using in which circumstances?
@josh83 Well - funny that, because your original post has thrown me back into GTL
I tend to use Quantiloop for guitar centred stuff, partly because of the visuals and how they relate to a four button foot pedal, also because of how it works as a host (for rhythm and effects). If I add instruments they’ll be from ThumbJam alone. I’ve tried to keep it simple so it runs on my older iPad and I just get some good jamming and practise in. You can use it with AUM like the others, but it’s less reliant on that for inputs and more self contained. I use Audiobus with it (not always) so I can use AB remote on a separate device and also if I want more than a couple of guitar effects on the input.
If I want to have a less guitar centred session with synths, other internal instrument and fx apps etc, then I’ll tend to use Loopy.
Both Quantiloop and Loopy are so useable for me that I didn’t think I needed GTL... but then it went on sale... and happily that turned out to be brilliant too. It’s probably the best for structured song building, though I rarely get that far, quite happy disappearing down looping whirlpools. I like the design though, definitely promotes creativity.
Actually I remember a crucial difference now, Quantiloop sees all midi inputs whereas in GTL you can choose. Sometimes, if I’m using more than one controller, I’d like to be able to specify which one QL is receiving control from, but that’s not possible and there’s potential for mapping conflicts. GTL solved that problem for me.
I think you’re right, you can setup Quantiloop to run its loops in series and give you song structure, but I think having only the 4 loop slots would be too limiting for me in that case. I like to keep different instruments on different loops, not overdubbing one on top of another.
Quantiloop is an excellent app, I think you’d get plenty out of it. I’ve given up trying to choose which looper to focus on and embraced the creative stimulation that can come from the differences.
Thanks a lot for your explanations, @steve99! I will definitely have to look at QuantiLoop then. My most important requirement is the song structure thing, as I want to perform popular songs on the street while adding 2nd guitar, bass (using guitar) and 2nd and 3rd voices on my own. For example, during verse 1, I will record my guitar only while singing, then during verse 2, I will playback my guitar and sing again. Or each time a chorus is happening, I will add another voice to it. This often results in awesome, astonishing results. I'm just an amateur guitar player and singer, but with the possibility of looping I can get quite impressive results. And by playing popular songs (e.g. "Pink Floyd - Wish you were here", or "U2 - One", or even "Britney Spears - Baby one more time"
), which have a lot of repetitions, I'm sure I will be quite an ear-catcher on the streets. 
For me, 4 loop slots might be enough. Do I understand correctly that the concept is similar to GTL's (which also only has 4 slots per group), but just without a Master group (that can play all the time, regardless of which group is currently active)? I find the restriction to 4 slots in GTL also a bit conservative, but so far I could fit in it everything I needed; the Master group adds some room here, too.
My biggest problem with GTL at the time being is that it applies effects to loops only after they are recorded, which makes the whole feature useless in my opinion (and I don't see the reasoning behind it). I have asked the developer about it, but didn't receive an answer yet. For example, when a verse contains of 2x the same chord progression, I would record my guitar on the 1st one, and a bass line on the 2nd one. For that I need to change the FX on my guitar exactly between 1st and 2nd progression, so my guitar now sounds like a bass on the 2nd one. If GTL applied FX directly while recording, I could setup this upfront; now I have to somehow make it work manually using my MIDI foot controller (by assigning a control to the "Next/Previous effect" in my effects app). But this needs very good timing and is prone to creating artefacts. I hope GTL will soon change this. Or do you have another idea? And how does QuantiLoop apply FX - directly while recording, or afterwards?
Quantiloop has three assignable fx slots for both input and output (plus one slot on each master input). You can assign them per loop or for all four loops. I use the built in transpose effect for bass lines, but I put it on after recording - I think this was because of latency (can’t exactly remember, but it definitely wasn’t good if I recorded with it on). Delay on input fine, also Yale reverse delay (by Sonosaurus) is my favourite input effect. Perhaps added latency is why GTL doesn’t have input FX?
GTL has 4 slots per group, but Quantiloop just 4 slots in all, so you get a lot more flexibility with GTL.
Hm, maybe. But GTL allows to configure FX to the main input and applies it right away. While for loops, it applies it only afterwards. I don't see what's the big difference in performance here?
Hm that sounds like a deal breaker to me then.