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Reduce audio latency with "double" CCK to eliminate usb hub ?
I'm currently using an audio interface via an apple CCK adapter. Works OK, lowish latency.
Thing is, it only has single DIN midi input, so to get more midi connections (no midi merge hardware here as yet) I'm connecting the audio interface via a small USB hub, where I can introduce more midi connections. (I do have din-midi/USB interfaces).
Trouble is ... this extra step of going through the USB hub has a VERY noticeable effect on audio latency. It's like a slap-back delay, when I listen to the original audio balanced with the audio that's done a round-trip to the iPad (to audiobus hosting loopy HD).
SO ... I'm thinking to eliminate the extra step by replacing the Apple CCK with one that supports TWO USB inputs. So the audio interface would connect direct to a CCK as before, and the additional midi (via midi interface) inputs would also connect direct to CCK.
I can see this will all work in connectivity terms ... but does anyone have any idea if it will help with the latency issue ?
It's an experiment I may just do anyway, but if anyone has any observations or alternate suggestions, they'd be very welcome,
Picture of the device I'm thinking of buying:
Comments
@bibenu
I ordered this from flea bay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/For-iPhone-8Pin-Lightning-to-USB-3-0-Camera-Adapter-Charging-Cable-OTG-Data-Sync/264758054301?hash=item3da4cf4d9d:g:WvwAAOSwB5Fe3y~7
It has two usb inputs and a lightning port for charging.
It will do the job.
Are you physically routing the audio out and
then back in or are you routing the audio virtually
using Audiobus?
If you are routing the audio out and then back in you will
definitely have noticeable latency which can be adjusted
using a simple delay app.
So you think this will reduce audio latency compared to my chain of usb hub -> CCK ? I'm honestly not sure ... thinking that maybe with two USB ports it has additional internal circuitry (maybe equivalent to a "hub") compared to a standard (single-usb) CCK ?
Audiobus is in the audio signal chain, yes.
I'm using audiobus to route the Audio interface to loopy HDs inputs, and then taking Loopy's output and routing back to to the audio interface where I'm monitoring with headphones. With a mix of the direct input and the return from the iPad ... that's where I'm able to detect large latency. (Like a slap-back delay).
Just out of curiosity, what is the AudioBus buffer size set to?
If your USB hub is adding latency it is a POS, get a new one.
You CAN NOT adjust latency with a delay, you can add more latency, but there is no such thing as a negative delay that doesn't use lookahead, Lookahead will add a bunch of latency.
Very true.
This is what I do.
I physically send the audio signal to 3+4 output,
process it using external compressors etc
and simply return it via input 3+4.
The main signal is delayed after the send by x amount of samples.
I use dRambo but I would like something
really lightweight to do the same thing.
I do not use a negative delay.
I don't use this for precise playing.
In this example I'm using SKIIID.
Alright, good to know there’s something here that can be optimised.
I don’t know how to go about finding a good one though ... any suggestions?
Unlike audio interfaces where certain brands are prominent, I can’t honestly say I know much about brands related to usb hubs, so I’m all ears.
@bibenu
I recommended that cck because I actually have one and
I've been testing it for two weeks alongside my official cck
without any noticeable difference in performance
or audio latency with both of my iPad's.
Audiobus and LoopyHD both set to 256 frames. I tried bringing them down, but it wasn’t working out well
Awesome... thank you.
No problem.
You're welcome.
@bibenu Is there any chance your keyboard is sending a steady stream of MIDI messages that might be interfering with the audio interface data? For example, is it sending MPE data? When you use the DIN connection on the interface, the interface can prioritize the audio over MIDI. With the USB hub, it's a free-for-all. I believe that any multi-port USB interface incorporates hub functionality; it has to merge the data from the various inputs into a single stream.
I don't think that's happening no. In both scenarios (with and without the hub) the keyboard was not connected .. though the intent of having the hub was to later connect the keyboard via the hub. There WAS a continuous stream of midi clock messages, from a hardware drum machine (to the ipad), but this was connected directly to the DIN connection of the audio interface, not via USB.
Btw, you don’t want to direct monitor the input AND the same input coming back from the device. There will always be some small latency during the round trip which you will hear if you are listening to the direct and returned signal at once (even a small amount of latency will cause the sound to be weird) . For this reason, I make sure not to direct monitor the input if that signal is coming back from the device.
Hey @Gravitas - I bought one of these on your recommendation, came today, working well so far. I've been wanting/needing something like this for iOS since before they invented Bluetooth
At last, I can have an audio interface (testing with a Sonic port VX on USB) and a midi controller with charging and no hub. Brilliant, thank you and thanks to whoever designed it.
I also tried it with my Artiphon to see if it would work as just a midi controller alongside my audio interface, but the Artiphon 'grabs' the audio, so back to old bluetooth for that one.
@steve99
You're welcome.
Sounds like it would need a dedicated idevice for performances.
Good to know for Artiphon players.
I've yet to try one myself.