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Arranging Songs - Stuck in a "pop" format.
Curious as to what your arranging methods are. I come from a "pop" background, changes every 8-16 bars or so. While this works for many genres, im finding it does not suit ambient genres that well.
If anyone has any tips on arranging more ambient styles of music, without it being boring / too repetitive, lets hear em!
I know one thing that helps me, is a lot of automation, but looking for others input.
Comments
I'm not an expert on ambient (or anything), but my approach would be:
In general, instead of forcing some kind of structure just let it run its course.
Most genres by now and especially pop is "in your face" pretty much all the time - be less aggressive (choice of sounds, mixing)
More on the midi side of things, Generative or semi generative midi Apps. using rozeta/Mozaic/and few other midi fx apps you can add all kinds of randomness, probability, and other changing or evolving qualities.
I believe Most of the iOS modular or semi modular synths usually have a module for random note on or semi random note generation. I know Ripplemaker Does.
I would study the masters like for example Steve Roach
He used very slow step sequencers, as did Eno with Discreet music.
Try to work with phasing (not the effect) and sequencers sequencing sequencers (Rozeta.)
Eg. Particles sequencing Cells.
A note generator app is a good starting point to take you away from the tendency to
play hooky melodic fragments. These generators usual select from a scale and deliver a relatively static harmonic texture with most notes blending into chord structure based
upon diatonic scales. Tight clusters of notes are avoided and notes are spaced out
which creates pleasing harmonic intervals and the occasional slash of disonance.
Riffer is excellent for using the random "dice" control and getting a pattern of notes you can
edit and play at a tempo that suits your intention. BPM's of 20 can be used with a synth that
accepts notes lasting 3-10 seconds and synths that morph over the time period and are moody, fog like sounds work well: Continua is an example of a good synth for this type of
texture. Anything that @Spidericemidas creates presets is a good candidate.
Lately, @echoopera has ben sharing his generator sequences in Drambo that are perfect to
create ambient music. You can point his Drambo generator at 3-8 synths on channels 0-7 and jus sit back and take create for some ambient credentials. I've done it and people love the results... anyone could do it and that's not a bad thing. But we will at some point OD on the sonic sugar and seek something with more bite in the mix. @iOSTRAKON is worth following for ideas on the more extreme edge of what is an industrial model for psycho-ambient-industrial-assaults.
Have fun.
If it’s quite so unpredictable and automated and systematic and abstracted, does it even have to be you doing the setting up? Some of my most ambient music is so abstracted that I even let someone else who doesn’t even know me set the whole system up and have major success with it.
Play it all live, take it slowly...
i tend to create more structured ambient that fits with the classic song building methods, listen to martin nonstatic, he’s my fav artist in the downtempo/ ambient genre... in his older stuff there would often be one element repeated thru out an entire track, like a sequence of chords or a bass, but everything else would evolve around it but in the practice of building a song up then taking it back down... the newer stuff is less repetitive immediately but he sprinkles the repetitive stuff just less frequently.. def can learn a lot but studying his musical evolution...
i mention this also as i think its important to not try to duplicate the style he has now vs when he first started as you’ll get frustrated with the results not being as good lol.. but try to be a bit more repetitive and finish songs, make that the goal even if they aren’t what you eventually want them to be when you get better...
never perfection , always progress is what i like to say to myself.
all that said there’s lots of good info above from these guys!
i think the important thing is finishing songs and not being caught up with them not being as good as your hero’s, and remembering they once where in the same predicament.
start with a long pad, repeat it over and over and see what you can do with it to change it over time to keep it interesting and moving.
once you’ve gotten better at that work on the next layer...a bass or chords or an arp... layer that in the same way, repetitive but find ways to change it over time
then repeat with more layers...
practicing the fundamentals of what makes a song you want to make is more important at first than creating a bunch of bangers that everyone’s going to love! finish the songs with the fundamentals, then try something new but keep what you’ve learned in practice.
i don’t like to create ambient across a time line but rather in loops or clips, each new clip set with a slight change to the movement of just one or two instruments or sounds...
resampling things in koala is one way to avoid a time line and work with loops, there’s no costraint to be in a perfect time line but eventually you may want that as well...
i use bm3 now since i can sample crazy things i can’t sequence as well as i can play them live or a bit at a time dubbing over loops .
but even the completely generative stuff is fun as well.
General pointers:
It's obvious to the point of banality, but dramatically reducing BPM (try something "too" slow) so there's simply less going on at any point really is a good starting point.
To avoid jarring transitions, use smooth voice leading with chord progressions. That is to say: move each chord's voice/note as little as possible in segueing to the next chord.
Texture can be just as, if not more, important than musical content, so once you've got a pad/drone/key/whatever tone you're happy with, you're halfway there. Let the sound shape the arrangement and just sustain the mood.
Try to find a balance between accidental and intentional. Because ambient's whole deal is simulating an organic space/mood/sound, too defined a musical idea, such as melody, can make the piece seem artificial. Obviously you want a degree of structure, but probability gates and other things that can give a degree of randomness will definitely help.
This is probably not what you want to hear but why not let your pop sensibilities inform your approach to ambient or whatever. Genres are human constructs and all the most innovative artists bend or break constructs. I think you are asking the right questions to break out of your box but instead of asking for the tools to create a new box how about trial by error tweaking of your tools until you find your own voice?
Amaze your friends with your "ambient" Expressive Drone Swarms:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mononoke/id1492577124
Use your own hands. Don't think or generate... just "be here now".
Thanks McD
I agree with a lot already mentioned here. I tend to go down the dark ambient cinematic path. No premeditated concept before I start a session. It’s all based on emotions at the time. Usually one synth / piano track will get the tumbleweed flowing. Slower BPM (exactly what McD said) down to 20 to unleash freedom in time.
Reverb is your friend / add some shimmer to the chain for unlimited textures / delay to fill in gaps
I also recommend getting to know Mutemaster for ambient pieces. Can truly unleash an environment you didn’t expect.
Make to post here so we can hear what you came up with
awesome, thanks all! A lot of great in depth replys here and some interesting philosophies. I look forward to more experimenting.
I never heard of Mutemaster. Turns out I don't need it. I already do this in AUM by sending LFOs to the faders.
There is a simple algorithm that composers and arrangers have known about for many centuries:
Step 1) Decide how long your piece will be.
Step 2) Decide on a macro structure: What happens when during that time frame? Where are the major climaxes, key changes, tempo changes, orchestration changes going to happen?
Step 3) Start composing and fill in the blanks. It's a lot easier to compose when you have already laid out the framework in advance.
Steps one and two are key to ending up with a structured piece. Alternatively, you can start without any ideas at all and improvise until you're done. That's totally allowed too.
Applied alot of your advice in this latest jam. its a bit chaotic at points mix wise, some of my "drones" got a bit out of control and may have gone a little overboard with some delays, but i still think its pretty cool. Thanks again for all the input! love this community.
One of the principles I was taught in composition classes is that jarring chord transitions become less jarring in proportion to the frequency with which the chord transitions occur.
Play a chord change every beat and the voice leading has to be spot on, play the change every couple of bars or more and you can almost play any change you want.
Nice. I even found the drum machine tolerable and that doesn’t happen often...
As another person caught up in the verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-out paradigm, this thread is gold! Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and to @shinyisshiny for asking the question... ❤️
Start out deprogramming yourself by using simple DRONES. Play some sparse leads over a 10 minute e5 pad and boom. Do it all in one take and dont worry about messing up. Then do one more sparse track with a complementary synth sound in a different register. Boom. Ambient superstar in the making. The whole trick is just to slow your mind and listen mindfully to what youre playing over. Don't worry about tempo, just play when you feel like it.
@oddSTAR awesome! glad somebody else is taking something from this thread.
Thanks all for your contributions, keep em coming!
Sweet. What synths did you use?
@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr
*The main keys melody is Imaginando DRC,
*Chord Stabs from DRC
*Resampled vocal track getting granulated in miRack
*Resampled Finger Fiddle also getting granulated in miRack
*Audiokit Bass 808
*Patterning for the drums
*Playbeat for Addtl perc
*Segments for some random sample triggers
LOTS of FX...
K7D tape delay on pretty much everything with LFO on random mode
Stratosphere Cloud Reverb
Blackhole
Drambo
Mood Units FX
TTAP Delay
Mutemaster
Looperator
As well as FAB Filter Bundle + Magic Death Eye for mixing and mastering
I think thats about it