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I think a lot depends onn what types of responsiveness one needs. I can get good “static” sounds from Bias (or AmpliTube) where the level of distortion/breakup is fairly constant. But, I mostly like my amp set up so that I can go from barely dirty to a sweet distorted sound by just playing harder and turning the pickups up a bit. With real tube amps and preamps, this is th norm (though with every amp it takes some experimentation to find the right settings and might require a clean boost pedal). With the Bias and the other early-gen amp sims, you seem need a larger difference in the input volume to achieve the same effect.
The new generation of amp sims is much better in this respect. And it is o e of those things you can’t hear in a recording that is immediately obvious since it literally is related to the feel of the guitar and how it influences the tone.
That’s great. I’m glad it works for you.
Yeh, I think we’re kind of saying the same thing. I’ve drifted away from my old mode of wanting to have the “most accurate recreation of such and such an amp” to loving the apps that give me the most connection between the myself and the guitar, and the tones that just sound “right” to me. Never had that before with amp sims, and I’m loving it.
Unless I get drafted into a cover band (fat chance!), I’m ‘bout ready to ditch my 732 different amp models in Ampltube, Bias, Bias FX, ToneStack ... and just be happy as a clam with my couple of favorites from now on.
But everyone has different needs and desires. It’s all good. 👍
I totally get this! With something like Tonestack, GarageBand amps, Deplike, or the Bias demo, I felt like my playing was being digitally corrected, like my touch and intonation were being overridden by the amp model or chain they were trying to impose. All of a sudden I played Nembrinis and they were as unruly or as dynamic as my playing, and as real as hardware. It’s a huge difference. Yes the Nembrini presets aren’t great and most need to be tweaked, which is why I use them mostly as a reference point for building a sound. But the Overloud presets are actually really good, since they also come as chains with lots of their pedals attached. There are always some factory presets one can find and depend on, but building a tone from scratch with a good sim is more satisfying...
I like to think of it from the standpoint of the guitar gods we all idolize. They did not have 732 amps, they perfected using just a few. Having so many models is not actually a good thing when being the master of a couple models is more realistic. We end up being overwhelmed and I basically see two choices: go through each model painstakingly trying to perfect it and you’ll never get through all you have in a lifetime, or skim through all you have and earmark what you really like right away and you’ll find your perfect dozen or so to master. I’m not paying for an app because it has 10,000 models, I’m paying to find one or two in that sea that I absolutely love.
Lots of guitarists used more than one type of amp on stage to get their sound.
Eric Johnson, for example, used a pair of Fender Twins for his clean tones, and a Marshall JTM 45 through a flat-face 4x12 for lead — at least for a time.
I recall Brian May using a number of Vox AC30s, and Robben Ford was known for having a JTM 45 and a Fender on stage together for a number of years.
Today we are fortunate enough to be able to do the same, or experiment!
This ancient “That Pedal Show” episode helps explain:
Perhaps slightly off-topic, but Rick Beato posted an interesting take on guitar players and what comprises their distinctive tone:
Modeling apps are discussed...
I am off for a week after today. It looks like I will trying out some new guitar software. Overloud and Nembrini. I don't mind spending 20ish dollars for each amp if its worthwhile. I have paid more than double that for an NOS 12ax7 before,lol. I will document my findings to share here. Thanks for all the input folks.
Be sure to try GE Labs as well, @dafrimpster. It’s free to download and try — you only pay if you want to save a number of presets.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/gelabs-infinite-tone-lab/id1506701208
You're probably going to love Overloud and later kick yourself for not getting the
"FULL" because they do not discount the small steps you much but starting with:
METAL $18
ROCK $18
FUNK and R&B $18
will get you enough of the amps, fx and cabs to get a sense of the quality if their work.
After that small step, I bought a specific iRig Collection "American Classics" for $15.
Then I added the "All FX" for $25 which does NOT include the distortions/overdrive stomp boxes like their CAT (i.e. RAT) pedal and other classic Fuzz, Overdrive stomps. To get those you have to kick in another $25.
Then there's an "All Amp/Cabs" options for $75.
You maybe buy any individual amp, cab, stomp for $5 each and there are well over 100.
All the potential iRig presets are well into the 1,000's.
GE Labs on the other hand has a similar approach but it's free because they want you to buy their hardware devices. OverLoud has NO hardware. They emulate hardware on Mac, Windows and IOS. GE Labs runs a "Cloud" where you can download custom rig builds from
folks like @flo26 (search for "Luke" in the titles, that's his guitar). He makes cool rigs.
It’s worth noting that some of the rigs come with a few fx like micropitch pedal or the SL guitar eq, and the bass rigs vol. 1 comes with 6 pedals. The Rock/Metal/Funk bundles give you access to many pedals that are also used in the preset banks of Rigs. So this makes me wonder, if you just have the Rig player from the free pack, but no bundles or pedals nor the full pack, doesn’t that mean that certain preset banks of rigs won’t be accessible if the chain uses a pedal you don’t own?
Those Rigs need to go on sale quick, I’m having a problem staying away from them.
The “all FX” bundle is a great deal because you can use them with the free amps, free rigs, and for non-guitar applications as well.
No. A Rig includes the DSP code to model the stomps they document in the product description. So, bringing up a rig and turning off amp and cab is yet another way to slip
an AUv3 FX app into a project.
I know where this weeks gig money is going. For the record, you all are enabling my app acquisition syndrome (AAS). It's much cheaper than my GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) and I don't have to find creative ways to sneak them past my wife. I can't wait to get off work and start jamming. Peace to all and thanks!
All this talk of amp sims and valves/ tubes etc I want that Joyo sweet baby combo, which isn’t available in the UK! Wish I still had that AC4 Vox, I’m considering the Ht1 Blackstar which apparently has a good headphone out emulation? A Bugera V5 or a Champ. Never mind all that, I still haven’t tried the Cali reverb or the free Overloud stuff even though I’ve had those a month!
I’m in isolation too for a month due to a forthcoming steroid injection into my picking hand/ thumb in theatre! I should make the time really but I’m stuck in politics! Help. Since 2016 I’ve been OCD in politics! Uk snd elsewhere, I need to escape from it all!
Get the free GE Labs app and start building rigs for free. You'll soon wish you could save them and that's what they will charge you for but you can download rigs from their cloud and have a lot of sounds for free.
I think I understand what you mean, but I’m referring to the preset banks for the rigs and not the rigs themselves that used stomps in the product description. For example the BHS Ace rig has a preset bank where a few presets use the parametric eq rack from the FX collection, the Fender Trem 63 rig has a preset bank where one preset uses the AmpTrem pedal, and so on. Lots of rig preset banks using pedals in the chain from the overall collection. But these FX aren’t available in any of the rock/metal/funk bundles. So are you implying that buying the rig opens up these pedals in the preset banks even if you don’t own the pedals?
Is it not here:
https://www.joyoaudio.co.uk/guitar-effect-types-JOYO/amplifier-simulation/
Not yet, but great link thanks. I have the American sound pedal, which is very good indeed! That little combo gets rave reviews and it’s £199 when it comes, variation in the valves/ tubes compared to the norm
Details. https://www.joyoaudio.co.uk/JOYO-jta-05-sweet-baby-5-watt-vintage-guitar-tube-amplifier-with-12ax7
I should really! The old Selmer I had was great, volume/tone and that was it. Best combo I’ve used on stage yet. 30 watt, 2x12. Year, early 60’s. What I’m looking for I suppose is impossible in the digital realm?
So after some experimentation I have found this:
GE labs has a more realistic tone (not significant but definitely noticeable) than bias but it doesn’t sound quite as “big” or expansive
Overloud is awesome and seems to have the best clean sound as well as very thick lead sounds, but it’s UI is a little clunky (I’d rather turn the knobs on the stomp boxes themselves then open a separate menu for instance)
I definitely feel the tube sound more here though after getting the American rig and rock package
Bias fx2 is certainly the most digital sounding, but like I said it is also very big and expansive sounding and has perhaps the best ‘wet’ sound. It also has the most easy to use interface and, maybe, better effects(?)—plus the dynamics seem to be more responsive when distortion is applied
Also the community presets feature is still great incentive to keep using this
Conclusion:
I’m going to utilize all 3! (Although less so GE)
I think there’s tones in each that can stand on their own merit
Bias is great for shredding, and perhaps very unique and experimental sounds from their massive effects catalog, and overloud will be great to use for clean riffs as well as tighter rhythms when trying to get a more accurate feel
It’s not a terrible problem to have for sure...and I’m very grateful that sims like these exist, because they give someone like me who can’t afford a vast amount of expensive equipment (which can be a turn off to young players starting out) the opportunity to experience the (almost) full potential of a guitar
Basically you shouldn’t have to be rich to get into and play good sounding music, and they, like all of iOS music app developers, have finally lowered to barrier to entry far enough where anyone can get in on the fun
I don't know what do you mean when talking about 'digital sound'. I have a real Mesa/Boogie amp and I have compared it with modeled amp within Bias FX. I have to say they sounds very close to each other. Bias is not overcompressed, overdriven amps and pedals sound in a right way and if you know how to use a real gear you will tune a great guitar sound with Bias FX.
Here's an interesting review about Bias mobile from MusicRadar. This is a website for professional musician and sound engineer so they don't have any reason to lie (just because they could loose they audience).
https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/positive-grid-bias-fx-2-mobile