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Zenbeats + Drambo + Digitakt. Anyone??
Hi,
Title is self-explanatory, if anyone has managed to get these working...
My first issue is that the Digitakt has one channel per instrument, so kick is on midi channel 1, snare on 2... that means if you set up a drum or instrument track in ZB it’s only going to trigger a pitched kick, or snare... It makes sense cos the Digitakt can also be played chromatically...
So here comes Drambo, it’s got channel out per track, just like the Digitakt. But I can’t trigger the Digitakt from an instrument track in ZB. I got midi output set to Digitakt, if I put some notes on the instrument track it to test it will trigger (but on one channel like I said before), but Drambo won’t do anything.
I’d appreciate some help or insight.
PD: it works just fine in AUM hosting Drambo.
Cheers
Comments
To get MIDI out from Drambo, it has to be loaded as an AU Midi FX. To do that, you need at least one plugin on the track so you can long-press it to add the midi FX. Once it’s added you can remove the dummy plugin.
You may be able to overcome the channels issue by using mfxConvert. I’m not sure that’ll work, but that’s the first thing I would try.
Thanks @wim. I did try the midi fx approach, and I see it’s not an issue with the Digitakt but with sending midi out from a ZB track, be it MidiFX or an instrument. I tested with FunkBox, same result. ZB sends what’s on the clip (I can hear FunkBox) but won’t send anything loaded in the track, Drambo in this instance but I also tried with Rozeta. If I load an instrument after the midi fx, I can hear the Drambo notes, it’s just that it won’t send outside midi. Here are some screenshots, I really don’t see the logic. I hope I explained it ok, it’s sort of confusing. Thank u!!
Ok, so I was trying the same in Beatmaker3 to see if it would work there, same thing. I searched the issue on BM3 and they mentioned using MidiRoute.
I tried it with Midi Route from MidiTools and it works. Both Drambo and Midi Route need to be used as midi fx.
But guess what?. This is the only plugin of the suite that doesn’t work in Zenbeats. It’s quarantined...
So it seems like the same would be true for Zenbeats, you need a plugin to be able to send midi to the outside world if the notes are not “printed” on a track.
So I need a plugin that will do this and work in ZB. Seen “RouteMidi” https://apps.apple.com/es/app/routemidi/id1347099452 but I don’t know if it’ll work...
Yeh, @tahiche - it doesn't look like you can send midi out from midi FX in Zenbeats.
If you turn "Pre MIDI FX" OFF, you can record the midi output from Drambo into a clip, then you can send it out, but of course, that's not super useful.
Can Zenbeats route to virtual MIDI ports?
If so then FreEWI might help. It's a virtual MIDI port that's like a MIDI hub running in the background.
https://apps.apple.com/en/app/freewi/id485711674?l=en
Exactly @wim, that sort of defeats the purpose and is a vibe killer!. I think that an AUV3 like Midi Route would do the trick, just like in BM3. I’m wondering if Mozaic can do it. I’ve been searching but I guess midi device handling is outside the scope of Mozaic, it’s a good excuse to get it.
I contacted Audioveek (Midi Tools) and told them about the plugin not working in ZB. It’s always something... It also makes you admire AUM. It always works, it’s just reliable. But it’s not a daw, and if you try to make a daw you start running into problems cos the plugins that aim to make a daw are not as reliable...
Either these apps are not totally mature or somehow I always end up asking for the thing they can’t do out of the box. And I’m constantly thinking “doesn’t everyone else need this too?”. Oh, well. I’ll download some stupid router thing and fail again tomorrow :] . Will let you know how it goes. cheers!.
Yes, these musicians mostly use Windows and MacOS. The apps over there can do all that... and still they're complaining about whatnot 😅
It can route route to virtual midi ports ... but unfortunately not midi from AU Midi plugins. The midi never exits Zenbeats, so it can't go anywhere. You can use it inside Zenbeats, but there doesn't seem to be any built-in way to get it out.
There is one plugin that can do this: RouteMIDI (not to be confused with MIDI Route, which doesn't work with Zenbeats). Load RouteMIDI after loading Drambo MIDI Fx, then point it to the external source, and it works, @tahiche. 👍🏼
Sorry, no, Mozaic is no help for this usage case.
But RouteMIDI will do it for you.
Just send midi to AUM where Drambo is loaded and there send it to Digitakt...
@wim I purchased MidiRoute, I can’t make it work. It’s not outputting anything...
No midi from the track’s plugins is outputted to the outside world.
Same thing in AUM works.
Have you tested this yourself?. Am I missing something?. To top it off MidiRoute doesn’t appear as a plugin in BM3 so can’t test it there, but, as I said, it works under AUM so apparently it’s doing its thing.
GOOD
NOGOOD
The thing is you can’t send midi from a midi plugin to the outside, be it AUM, another app like FunkBox or AUM.
I could probably host Drambo in AUM, which triggers the Digitakt, and sync AUM and Zenbeats with Ableton. But it’d be a real pain and overly complicated workflow.
I was suggesting the same
(host Drambo in AUM)
I suggest sending an email to ZenBeats devs ,maybe it's just a bug that a midi fx plugin can't reach a midi port
I will. Do you know the best way to contact them?
I know @MatthewAtZenbeats is around this forum... With some luck hell read this?
I tested this before I suggested it, and it works. We just need to find what you're doing differently than I am.
This is what I have done. It works.
Hi @wim, I don’t think I’m doing anything different. I recorded a screen capture, if you could take a look and find Wally... at the end of the video I show a regular drum track with some notes that’s set to output to FunkBox, to show that it’s not FunkBox but midi leaving ZB when generated by a plugin....
Really appreciate it!
I made a video.
https://dropbox.com/s/axtcrfrvhsu52ql/V%C3%ADdeo%2010-10-20%2021%2017%2057.mp4?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/axtcrfrvhsu52ql/Vídeo 10-10-20 21 17 57.mp4?dl=0
Holy crap, it’s working now!!. Wtf.
Didn’t do anything.... just started Zb again, but I did that before...
it’s so weird. No idea. Don’t know if I’m happy, not knowing wtf just happened!. 😳
Edit: I’m not sure I opened FunkBox before ZB. That might me the culprit. It seems like even though the external app port is visible in RouteMidi and it works with track notes, in some instances it’s not properly “bound”. Seems like going to ZB settings and reselecting the “midi output” device refreshes something and it works.
Now that it’s outputting midi to external ports, the Digitakt should work. The remaining issue, and not minor, is that RouteMidi only outputs to one channel. Since Digitakt has an instrument per channel, you’d need one of these for kick, another for snare... each one with its own Drambo and RouteMidi instance... hardly manageable.
Yeh, that could get ugly. I can't think of any way to deal with that other than to send the midi to AUM or Audiobus, then use mfxConvert to split it into channels, then out to the hardware. Hardly seems worth it. I think by that point you're much better off just hosting Drambo in AUM or Audiobus.
So to recap, sending midi to the outside from plugins in Zenbeats is doable via RouteMidi (thanks @wim !).
It’s in fine in most cases, if you’re only going to send midi on one channel. Apps that are not AUV3 like Animoog can benefit from this.
We have a problem in the case of needing multiple channels like the Digitakt, where each instrument is on its own channel.
Drambo’s “midi output “ can define channel per track, which is great, works fine standalone or in AUM. But not on Zenbeats...
“Midi Route” from Midi Tools has an “All” option which will Route any channel to the midi device. That would work, except “Midi Route” doesn’t work in Zenbeats.
“RouteMidi”, which works in Zenbeats, forces you to specify a channel (no “all” option ). Which sucks in the case of Digitaktbas you’d be bound to one track in Zenbeats (with their own midi plugins) per Digitakt instrument... horrible mess.
So ii looks like Zenbeats-Drambo-Digitakt is not feasible inside Zenbeats... which is close to what @Korakios pointed out.
The most manageable setup I believe is:
Drambo standalone outputting midi to Digitakt.
Zenbeats and Drambo synced via Ableton.
So hitting play on ZB will play Drambo which triggers the Digitakt... sort of a mess but not terribly bad. There’s probably more issues... for starters Drambo seems to wait for one extra measure when pressing play on ZB. I haven’t tested with real sequences so I don’t know how bad it is.
If Midi Route worked in Zenbeats, with the “All” channels option, everything would come together nicely (wrote them an email, hasn’t been updated in a while). Either that or an “Alll channels” option in RouteMidi (don’t know how to contact them).
Or I could get over it and not use the Digitakt, but I’m completely biased and I think the same sample sounds better coming from the Digitakt, which is probably bullshit. Right?.
Anyway, thanks for your help. I feel like we’ve dissected this well enough. Cheers!
Worth notifying the devs :
https://www.roland.com/backstage/zenbeats-support
everybody knows i'm big ipad music apps enthusiast... i'm messimg a lot with digitakt a digitone last few weeks - surprisingly i realized that always, when i try incorporate ipad into game, things starts to get complicated and instead of being in creative flow, i'm forced to think all the time what and how stuff should be connected to keep it all working..
in moment, when i put ipad away and concentrate just on DT/DN - it's like entering creative universe... everything around me stops exists and those things just works.... and creativity flows like river.
sorry for offtopic, just had to say it.
Oh yes, making all the audio and MIDI goblins work together can kill a lot of creativity if you don't have a reliable setup prepared in advance. And indeed I always had the most fun when staying inside one app, be it Gadget, Nanostudio, Drambo or miRack.
One setup that worked quite well for me though is running Groove Rider next to my Digitakt with GR either slaved to MIDI clock or GR being sequenced by its 8 MIDI tracks that, by coincidence, are 4-voice polyphonic too.
Rock solid combo. GR's loop slicer alone is worth it, and then there's that fun wavetable synth...
yeah, GR may work, it's almost like hw :-)) will try it..
@rs2000 That’s precisely what I’m trying, to find a setup that works. Seems almost impossible!. There’s always something... As I said, AUM is rock solid and just works. But it’s not a DAW and to make a “song” you end up having to incorporate so many workarounds that it stops being reliable and solid.
Drambo is very “Elektronish” and being AUV3 it seems like a good candidate, it can also seemengly incorporate its own sounds and fix and external gear (Digitakt) in the same instance, it can do midi channels...
@dendy thw Digitakt sounds better, doesn’t it?. Tell me it’s worth it!. I swear I’m not a snob, I can’t tell the difference between 96khz or 44khz. And the Digitakt is digital, it’s not like it has some analog circuitry and a valve tube thingy....but there’s something there, some secret sauce.
@Korakios im gonna notify the devs. The thing is BM3, for example, can’t send midi from plugins to the outside either without a third part app (MidiRoute). It’d be ideal for these daws to be able to do this and it doesn’t make sense that they can’t. If you have a track sending midi to a device, it should regardless of the midi notes being printed or generated by a plugin.
Thank you all!.
for me it's not that much about sound (even through i have to admit there is something happening especially in bass spectrum, but maybe it's just placebo, don't know) ... For me it's very much about workflow - it's the sequencer and overall UX what attract me at this moment 100% to elektron boxes away from ipad - there is something with this sequencer and how all knobs and UI is designed which works form me like magic. One would say Drambo has similiar sequencer - and yes, some essence is there, but combined with a level of complexity which isn't good for me in groovebox ... in general it's the beautiful balance of simplicity and complexity in DT/DN which totally clicked with my brain :-)
sound is more or less same like any other sampler, so it's strongly depending on what samples you load there (of course, there are some details, for example audio-rate LFO, for example i really like strange stereo+ringmond effect when you modulate PAN wih fast LFO on Digitakt
Digitone is different topic, there is not just amazing sequencer and UI, but also the synth engine is totally superrior to any FM synth available on iOS
Ok, so I tried this:
Why?. It doesn’t make sense!. Aghghgghg. it’s only syncing, why would that interfere with the midi output?. As soon as I disable Ableton sync it outputs midi to the Digitakt again.
As it is, I can’t sequence the Digitakt from the iPad.
Until a proper DAW> @tahiche said:
Conspiracy
Most probably a bug in Drambo
@tahiche So I get that you're running Drambo standalone instead of inside Zenbeats?
And where did you disable LINK to make sending to MIDI work?
Yes, I’m using Drambo standalone. Select Digitakt in midi out. Not using LINK, I don’t see why i need it. It works when using Drambo standalone but doesn’t work when syncing via Ableton. Doesn’t make sense to me.
I obviously need to sync Drambo and Zenbeats so I can play the Digitakt in sync.