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Do we need an easy going AUV3 audio&midi looper/recorder ?
Hi,
We have now a pletora of tools that allow us to loop and record audio or midi in AUM.
But I personally think that they are all a bit tedious to use for easy going looping/recording on the fly.
We have Atom and Photon for midi but they are both a bit tricky to set up for quick looping/recording IMO. (I hope the new Atom will be more looping friendly).
Same thing with audio. I tried a lot of them, Loopy, L7, Enso, Multitrack recorder, AUM's inner recorder .... and I always end up with the same frustrating feeling of loosing the flow ( and sometime my nerves) in the process.
I personnaly would like to see a simple AUV3 one touch looper/ recorder that speaks both, midi and audio and with minimal settings. Auto sync / quantization / undo.redo / overdub / playback modes.
Does anybody else has the same need ?
Comments
A simple audio clip recorder/player is definitely needed.
MultiTrack, L7 and those are indeed not a “straightforward” use. AND there’s no way no reset the sample. They run in sync in the background but you can’t (midi cc) tell them to “start from the beginning” as in clip based DAWS (BM3, Zenbeats, GarageBand AND Loopy). AUM file player has “enable play” (midi controllable) but it always has a sync countdown, which makes it impossible for a “performance” mode.
There’s more possibilities for midi, LK works really well.
Out of curiosity, what about Loopy (or Group the Loop) take you out of your flow? They are so simple to use and reliable (particularly if using Audiobus 3 so that you can control Loopy without switching out of your host — and if you set it up once and save a configuration - getting it set up again is a tap or two)
sEGments is almost there... I think..
Drambo is very good as a midi looper. Audio looper is being worked on but it is on a slight back burner currently because seems like I’m the only one pushing for it yet, somehow, I know there’s more folks like me who loop both audio and midi.
I’m aware that Drambo conjures an image of a techno or ambient head twiddling with knobs and sliders but it can be so much more. If you’re like me drop a request to [email protected] because the looper module is not far from being finished. I have an alpha version of the module and it is already working with very little latency. Since Drambo can work in the effect slot it is perfectly suited for this.
agreed that no looper exists on iOs with a smooth workflow
Some of us pushed pretty hard to convince Michael to include Midi looping in Loopy Pro. He promised to consider it, though probably not for the initial release. To me that would be the ultimate solution.
I'm getting along splendidly with Drambo for combined audio and midi looping. I use the Flexi Sampler as a looper and it works well for my needs. I have a template with 8 Flexi's, controlled by a BlueBoard foot controller with a small helper Mozaic script. I can't say I use it a lot, but it works.
Zenbeats ends up being my combined audio and midi looper more often than not. Though it's not as inspiring as just setting up a jam in AUM.
Yes we do! I use GTL within AUM a lot, It world really well for song structure type looping, but sometimes I'd like to combine it with another simpler AUv3 looping thing, and that thing doesn't really exist.
I’m with @espiegel123 here. I’ve spent a lot of time with the audio loopers available. Now I’ve been putting in time with LK for midi looping and I’m really excited to go back and combine it with Loopy / GTL / Enso or Quantiloop (L7 though has given me nothing beyond frustrated disappointment as a looper).
I think we’d all love it if Ableton came to iOS, but where we are right now with LK, Drambo and the promise of Atom 2 now offering midi looping makes these exciting times indeed.
I think the main problem I’m going to run into will be processing power and that would be the same for a single app that does it all. I suspect I will end up with midi and audio looping on 2 separate devices, although perhaps the new Midi Guitar AUv3 is going to challenge that solution.
Anyway, good times right now I say.
In the time since I posted the tutorials about setting up AUM/AB3/LOOPY (much of which would apply to GTL, btw), quite a few people have told me that they didn't realize they could be integrated like that -- and have found that once it is set up, it is quite seamless. Because once you have it set up, you can have a single AB3 doc which when launched has everything set up and ready to go. True that it will be even friendlier when Loopy Pro happens --but it works pretty seamlessly and reliably now. As much as I'd like to love L7 and the other AUv3 loopers, I find them a lot more fiddly than Loopy -- whose extensive MIDI control makes it possible to have custom setups that suit one's workflow.
Drambo - Midi looper
Enso - Audio looper
I have an RC202 and much prefer the AUM/Drambo/Enso combination.
Does ENSO have a “play from the beginning” command?.
I agree with @wim here. Except that it’s not easy to loop audio using Flexi Sampler under some circumstances. Also I can notice an audio “drop” when it triggers, at least with long samples,
I guess an audio looper is not the same as a sampler. And No, there’s no good audio loopers in AUV3 format that I know of.
Just emailed!.
I’d like to know how many of us incorporate audio in our workflow. Given the apps released, there’s not so much in the audio recording/looping department. I’d say this “world” is predominately electronic, meaning not that many actually record their own audio, be it vocals, guitars, external gear... There’s a lot of apps and auv3 that deal with midi sequencing, looping, piano rolls, etc, and very few dedicated to audio.
This is true for DAWs aswell. Even the most basic audio editing is very limited or nonexistent.
Might do a thread to try and find out.
Bro coast, that funny I am exactly opposite and use rc 202 but for some reason haven't gotten along with enso. I agreed with a simple looper in AUM that uses low cpu and just loops in time proper. I love the loopers we got tho they are more mad hatter.
I am also looking for a long time for a nice "looping grid" app. Yes, it's getting old here but something like Ableton Live grid to easily record audio loops.
Actually, what LK did for MIDI, just for audio. If LK had an option to record audio too, it would be the perfect solution.
I currently look into Drambo, I was playing around a bit with its flexi sampler, looks like it could do the job, but of course the UI would never be as nice as if it was an app made exactly for this purpose. Also, I didn't really try to use it for recording loops yet, maybe there will be more catches in real life usage.
@supadom Just FYI: I am also curious about your implementation of audio looper in Drambo.
Something that’s worked for me recently, if this is helpful: I found out that using L7 in an effect slot on an instrument track within Sequencism is really fast for capturing one (audio) loop after another if you’re using the same instrument.
Sequencism makes it fast because of how the screen is laid out, for example here is an instance of L7 on a track with a piano instrument:
Up top right under the big play button are the icons for the piano and L7 and you just click on each to switch quickly to their respective app.
Just press record on L7, switch to the instrument and play your loop, then switch back to L7 and do it again (just changing the sound or setting on the instrument however you like when you’re recording the next loop), and again and again...All the while L7 keeps playing and looping.
So for example, one time I had L7 in there like that but with Magellan2, where I was successively recording one Magellan track after track in L7, just changing to a different Magellan sound each time I switched back to Magellan to play the next loop.
I’ve got Zenbeats and Garageband, much bigger DAWs of course than the relatively barebones Sequencism and I don’t think this fast and convenient workflow would be as easy on those former two.
Of course, I was only using Sequencism as a last ditch effort to get L7 to work at all on my iPad mini 2, and even there it’s wonky getting it to work a lot of time (I couldn’t even get it to work this time with Magellan just to use it for my image above to match my use case example), but I digress. (Also to be fair I don’t know how much it is sequencism, Magellan, or L7 to blame, but again I’m on old tech so maybe no problem on newer iPads.
When it all does work though, it’s fun. But I think it could be any other effect slot looper that you prefer in there too instead of L7, and you could still take advantage of the quick switching.
Sorry, even easier: you can choose your instrument sound before you press record on L7 so you don’t need to record your next L7 track until you already have your sound picked out and even auditioned what you’ll play. (And you can just play your notes even on the L7 screen so no need to switch back to the instrument again before playing)
I think many techno/ambient heads consider ‘outside’ audio sources other than samples as a no go. This is probably because most can’t sing or play and instrument to a level where they could blend it with the mathematically perfect world of drum machines and arpeggiators. Or maybe because it is more hassle to to technically. Still, there’s many of us who do but I think we’re in minority.
There’s also that thing of being a crossover artist: not quite producer, not quite DJ and not just a singer songwriter.
Still, I think music these days is going in so many different directions and digital technology developing at such a speed I see no reason why it couldn’t be done with relative ease.
Still, I’m talking about live performance predominantly and can see already a vast amount of tools when it comes to static track by track recording.
@skrat I’m still using loopy IAA for audio loops as it’s been my companion for years but it is still IAA and suffers from some related issues such as at times erratic loading etc. I’ve used it successfully live alongside Novation Circuit and it’s been reasonably stable. Here’s one of my latest jams
@supadom I just realized I’ve watched a ton of your videos!. When was wondering about switching to iPad I felt like I could really relate to your stuff. You’re good!. The fact you’re still using Loopy says something (really good about Loopy and not too good about how forgotten audio is).
This is a huge topic indeed. I do have some recent experience. I wanted to try and work outside a DAW, I like the “modular” bits and pieces kind of workflow, as in AUM. So I set on a little journey to do a “song” without a DAW. Not an endless impro but a song with parts and audio, mainly guitars. I posted the result in this thread HERE
Here’s the result:
I’d like to make a distinction here... audio clip launchers, loopers, whatever you want call them are those in BM3, Garage Band, Ableton or Zenbeats. They’re not just loopers like L7. Main difference is they can “reset” and play from the start when you play them. That seems silly but it makes a huge difference. With L7 (I believe enso is the same as are other loopers) it plays In sync, but they don’t reset. So say you got a 4 bar verse but the chorus is 12 bars... you don’t know where the chorus will be when you switch to it. A looper works in a traditional “looper” scenario but not to build a song structure with changes. Also L7 crashes like crazy, very unreliable. Before someone mentions it... AUM file player is almost there, but it’s got no “immediate” sync, minimum is one bar, so it comes in late...
This is exactly my thinking. LK is a proper clip launcher. I do think adding audio would be a big project. It’d need to be multi-output, right?. Or have a little companion app to just play/record a clip. But that’s definitely the idea.
In the song above I used Drambo to play the guitar stems. It was a lot of work to find a combination that would fit my needs, and it was far from perfect. I think that’s why Drambo devs are saying an audio clip looper is in the roadmap. A sampler is not a clip launcher... In Drambo I had to prepare each sampler according to how long the audio file was. And, most importantly, there’s an audible volume drop when the sample retriggers, it’s not seamless like a looper. You can hear it in the song although I tried to cover it up with some splashes.
So yeah, an audio LK is the closest. They’d have to think about how to implement it. It obviously can’t be in the same instance as the “usual” place for LK is in a midi slot, and, like I said, you’d definitely need multiple audio outs.
Sorry for the extremely long post! 🤓 I do love this forum.
You’re right. What I can do though, after recording the loops in L7, is export those loops (fairly easily) and load them individually into their own clip launching track on Zenbeats, Garageband, etc. and then do the clip launching that way.
I know that is more extra steps though so not the solution this thread’s about. And yeah, L7 is freaking unreliable and glitches for me for sure.
Btw, you could set up MIDI triggers for Loopy and launch those for LK. It wouldn't require exporting and it is super reliable.
Sweet. Thx for the tip!
Are u using AB to connect them, isn't it ?
No not using AB. You can send audio from AUM to GTL, and send it back out to AUM again very successfully.
Really ????? as a AUM Output ? Do u have any tutorial for that ?
@raimundoarriagada ... I think I can describe it, let me know if this works. I always use it a bus so I'll describe that.
Load GTL in the top slot of an audio channel as an IAA ap. This will be your return of the looped GTL audio into AUM.
Send all the channels you want to loop to a bus, and make another channel with that bus as the input. The output of that bus channel can be routed to GTL by selecting an IAA input. Or maybe the word is output, I can't recall whether the terminology refers to where you are or where you're going. Anyway, the GTL Icon will show up in the output slot. I might have to clarify this step as I can't recall exactly.
I'll double check when I'm back at my iPad.
Edit: To the Audio from AUM to GTL, select in the output slot "IAA / Audiobus Output". If you've already instantiated GTL in another channel, it will show up as the first option.
Bro, thank you SO MUCH ! I will try this NOW. That looks like a niiiice option for me
I want to use AUM as much as i can for volume/fxs/etc ..... and just to get everything to GTL and then record directly to AUM as master.
And i want to avoid AB !
You need to configure GTL Input as some AUM Port ?
You shouldn’t need to. Sometimes it loses the connection and you can reconnect it to AUM from the input options of GTL. But when I’m setting up I can load GTL and make all the connections in AUM