Impossible to sync ampify groovebox and beatmaker 3

espiegel123

@AudioGus said:

@espiegel123 said:

@AudioGus said:

@espiegel123 said:

@AudioGus said:

@espiegel123 said:

@arakatak said:

@espiegel123 said:

@arakatak said:

@espiegel123 said:

@arakatak said:

@espiegel123 said:

@Gravitas said:
I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

@arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

Doing this in AUM simply made it possible to analyze what is going on. I believe that BeatMaker’s sync is solid. Is it possible that you don’t have your audio loops set up correctly?

I just looked again at your setup. Are you not using Ableton link with both Groovebox and BeatMaker?

Yes I have used ableton link on both apps, I don't think the problem is from my loops as I record audio (bass/guitar) following bpm of the session, I don't edit what I have recorded, I loop the audio using transport in/out, and I check sync using the groovebox/BM3 metronome and mute tracks. I leave 5mn, and check after 5mn if metronome are still sync...

For your loops in BeatMaker, do you have them set to track the tempo? After several minutes, my BeatMaker loops were still precisely locked.

Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood something..but I record using session tempo, so why do I will need to set track to tempo..? And I check sync (groovebox/BM3) using metronome of both apps (groovebox/BM3) not based on tracks.. because I feel that's easier to detect..

Can your post your BeatMaker project somewhere? It doesn't seem
that others are experiencing BeatMaker drifting as you are...which is what makes me wonder how you have set up the loops to test.

One of the things I find about your initial post is that it doesn't show BeatMaker and Groovebox connected by link.

Re : the metronome. My metronome stays in sync. The reason I recorded and imported all the apps was to analyze the sync to see how it was. It was clear that the BM audio was staying synced.

I just tried this in Audiobus and BM3 loops stayed in sync with both its own midi track (quarternote kick) and its metronome. The loops are not drifting for me.

When you say that you are judging by the metronome, whose metronome? If it is Groovebox's, I believe you are hearing it drift. That is why recording the streams and comparing to an absolute reference is important.

Fwiw, in Audiobus I only have Link on. Your picture shows AB receiving midi Clock from BeatMaker. Turn off all Sync buttons in BeatMaker in case that is making a difference. You only need Ableton link. In Audiobus, turn off the midi Clock output and listening. You aren't using midi Clock.

I am using iOS 13.7 and latest BeatMaker, Groovebox and Audiobus.

Are you using the latest of each?

Is it still in sync if you let it play for about five minutes?

I'll check again and let it run. After 3 minutes in my earlier test, there had been no drift at all by BeatMaker -- so, I will be surprised if it suddenly starts drifting. By that time, Groovebox had drifted enough for it to be noticeable (though Groovebox wasn't terribly terribly out of sync).

I have not tested Link a ton with BM3 lately (although with maschine it certainly is not syncing / not sure the fault there, haven’t tested enough)

It seems like BM3 does have confirmed issues with midi sync with other more timeline based clocks. Theory: loop based ones may not exhibit it as much?

Anywho, I have been able to repro this with other clocks aside from just Samplitude (which as far as I can tell has rock solid midi clock)...

Since this post was about Ableton link, I am just using Ableton link in this test. My tests involve both a loop and a MIDI track that has quarter notes.

I just finished a test where I let it run for 5 minutes. BM stayed strictly in sync. Groovebox had drifted 140 ms late at that point. At 2 minutes 30 seconds it was in the ballpark of 60 ms late.

This was setup with Audiobus, BM3 and Groovebox and Twisted Wave. The output of BM3 and Groovebox were hard panned to opposite sides and send to Twisted Wave for recording Only Ableton Link. No clock sending or receiving by any of the apps. Since this is consistent with yesterdays test with AUM where I could precisely sync record start with link, I think it is a strong indication that in this scenario the issue is Groovebox not synching super tight.

Using Auditor to look at the recording made in Twisted Wave, it is easy to see that BeatMaker stays on tempo since Auditor lets you view the timeline based on BPM. The BeatMaker hits stay lined up with the beats on the timeline from start to finish. By the end Groovebox is about 1/16th note late.

Awesome, thanks for the breakdown. Now I feel that Maschine may really be at fault on the Link side and will try with other apps to be sure. Can you recommend another solid Link app on iOS (aside from BM3)?

To be honest, I haven't tracked it. I just knew from the past that Loopy and BeatMaker 3 have been solid. I haven't used Maschine for ages and never with other apps. Btw, it is super easy to check if you have Auditor and AUM. Just make a recording with hits on the beat hard-panned to opposite channels in AUM. Afterwards, open in Auditor and set its timeline to use the tempo you recorded at. If neither channel's hits are precisely on beat (it would be normal for a small offset of up to several ms) you can trim out the initial offset from the file.

At one point, I tested BeatHawk and found it reliable BUT I have had a few sessions where it wasn't as solid.

Groovebox's metronome is consistent with its beats. So, you can't use its metronome to judge the other app.

arakatak

@espiegel123 said:

@arakatak said:

@espiegel123 said:

@arakatak said:

@espiegel123 said:

@arakatak said:

@espiegel123 said:

@Gravitas said:
I’ve had good solid sync with both BM3 and Groovebox being hosted in AUM.
AUM and Groovebox linked using Ableton Link.
AUM sending out midi clock to BM3.

BM3 set to receive ,’Midi Clock In’.

@arakatak : I think the culprit is Groovebox and not BM3. With the current versions of BM3, AUM and Groovebox, I set up a project with quarter notes in Groovebox (hi-hat). In BM3, I had a snare on the beats and a two-bar drum loop hard-panned to opposite sides. I set all to sync with Ableton Sync with start/stop on.

I recorded the session for two minutes and imported into Auditor and set the timeline to use the tempo at which I had been running (96.0 bpm). What I found was that both of the BM3 tracks stayed locked tight but that the Groovebox track drifted ever so slightly later and later over time.

Thanks for the info, good to know..Making music on Ipad is everytime a project with technical issues...I spend too much money on apps to go back to PC..There's always "something", that kill the creativity.. Btw, good your "Root Cause Analysis", I will not buy AUM just for that...And who knows...If I buy AUM, later after an IOS update or apps update that will not work anymore..Make RCA again,..To resume spend more time to not making music again..Sorry If, I'm a little out of the topics..

Doing this in AUM simply made it possible to analyze what is going on. I believe that BeatMaker’s sync is solid. Is it possible that you don’t have your audio loops set up correctly?

I just looked again at your setup. Are you not using Ableton link with both Groovebox and BeatMaker?

Yes I have used ableton link on both apps, I don't think the problem is from my loops as I record audio (bass/guitar) following bpm of the session, I don't edit what I have recorded, I loop the audio using transport in/out, and I check sync using the groovebox/BM3 metronome and mute tracks. I leave 5mn, and check after 5mn if metronome are still sync...

For your loops in BeatMaker, do you have them set to track the tempo? After several minutes, my BeatMaker loops were still precisely locked.

Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood something..but I record using session tempo, so why do I will need to set track to tempo..? And I check sync (groovebox/BM3) using metronome of both apps (groovebox/BM3) not based on tracks.. because I feel that's easier to detect..

Can your post your BeatMaker project somewhere? It doesn't seem
that others are experiencing BeatMaker drifting as you are...which is what makes me wonder how you have set up the loops to test.

One of the things I find about your initial post is that it doesn't show BeatMaker and Groovebox connected by link.

Re : the metronome. My metronome stays in sync. The reason I recorded and imported all the apps was to analyze the sync to see how it was. It was clear that the BM audio was staying synced.

I just tried this in Audiobus and BM3 loops stayed in sync with both its own midi track (quarternote kick) and its metronome. The loops are not drifting for me.

When you say that you are judging by the metronome, whose metronome? If it is Groovebox's, I believe you are hearing it drift. That is why recording the streams and comparing to an absolute reference is important.

Fwiw, in Audiobus I only have Link on. Your picture shows AB receiving midi Clock from BeatMaker. Turn off all Sync buttons in BeatMaker in case that is making a difference. You only need Ableton link. In Audiobus, turn off the midi Clock output and listening. You aren't using midi Clock.

I am using iOS 13.7 and latest BeatMaker, Groovebox and Audiobus.

Are you using the latest of each?

Really sorry...I failed to understand what you mean concerning loops settings...

I have already made lot of test according to members inputs since the beginning of this post, so , don't take into consideration only the first post as it was sure that at this time my settings were wrong....There's a kind of chronology of the story..

Metronome : I said both groovebox AND BM3...I don't see the purpose to test sync using only one metronome..

Yes I'm using the latest of each apps (I'm not an expert but that is the first thing I check when I have an issue..)..

I only wished to know, how to set Groovebox/BM3/Audiobus correctly to get the most of chances to get sync, and thanks to all, I get the answer really fast..
Finally to know the culprit is not fundamental for me, the goal was, can I make it sync or not using apps I have...
The answer is NO (for this moment..), but I can work around the problem by saving loops made in BM3 to blocswave, and sync blocswave with groovebox..which is enough for me for the moment..

Thanks for all members who have replied and help, I really appreciate this, I get what I needed, sorry, I don't have the level to go deeper..