Cubasis 3 and Why It’s My iOS DAW of Choice

god

@NoiseFloored said:
Six months ago I was having a ton of crashes and lost work, until I realized what it was: if I left an AU UI open and put CB3 in the background for more than 10 seconds (say, to check something in Safari), it crashed. Up to that point, in my experience, this was a “random” crash that made the app mostly unusable to me. Once I knew how to work around it (not necessary anymore since the last update fixed the issue) the experience was great.

I wonder if this disparity of experiences has to do with other seemingly random bugs that just don’t affect some of us because of our different workflows, more than OS versions, plugins of choice or device differences.

You really blew my mind there. I have an older device (iPhone 8+) and suffer from practically every bug imaginable : the crashing of AUv3 guests, the crashing of C3, AUv3 plugins disappearing from hosts systemwide, etc. And I’ve no idea why! But maybe it does have something to do with my workflow, some peculiar things that I do or some configuration. Maybe I could tweak something in my workflow and be able to keep my head above the water ?

drcongo

Can you not just smite the bugs @god?

god

@drcongo said:
Can you not just smite the bugs @god?

I could, but it’s just so much more satisfying to watch them frustrate app users

[Deleted User]

@qryss fwiw i was experiencing extreme dsp spikes causing crackling etc. Then i followed a suggestion for these two setting, device latency and audio engine latency. Specs are a little over my head but CB3 is running ALOT smoother now. Ipad air 3.

israelite

@drcongo said:
UX of NS2 is so far ahead of anything else on a touch interface that going back to Cubasis is always an exercise in frustration for me.

That's very well put and reflects what many users are experiencing.
Steinberg can learn a lot from NS2. Why there is basically the same navigation bar in piano roll as in the main app window? And why the important buttons for note manipulation are so tiny? It is a bit of a husstle to work with piano roll.
Why there are so many rarely used buttons (Help, Shop) constantly on the screen.
Cubasis UI asks for a serious rethinking.

Perhaps Cubasis 4 in ca. 2023 will be a game changer

IOSSOS

So what about Auria Pro?
No mention here....

Telstar5

@drcongo said:

@Telstar5 said:

@drcongo said:
Baffling isn’t it. The bitterness in my earlier post is mostly jealousy and surprise that others are able to use the app at all.

I switched to NS2 and occasionally BM3 a year ago because CB3 is guaranteed to ruin all my work at some point, usually within an hour of sitting down with it, often within mere minutes. BM3 also has a showstopper bug in its fx automation, but at least I know where that one is. The CB3 bugs pop up everywhere with no rhyme or reason. NS2 has some serious limitations, but has never crashed on me and never deleted my work. I’ve ended up just embracing its limitations as a way of forcing me to get creative in working around them. I rarely even think about the missing audio tracks or fx automation any more, and the UX of NS2 is so far ahead of anything else on a touch interface that going back to Cubasis is always an exercise in frustration for me.

I’m glad it works for others though and should probably stop sticking my oar in on these threads.

What are NS2’s limitations for you as compared to Cubasis 3? (Besides lack of audio tracks?)

The biggest one is being unable to automate FX other than the built in ones. I’d pay full price for an NS2.5 upgrade with just that added.

Thanks!

god

@Telstar5 said:

@drcongo said:

@Telstar5 said:

@drcongo said:
Baffling isn’t it. The bitterness in my earlier post is mostly jealousy and surprise that others are able to use the app at all.

I switched to NS2 and occasionally BM3 a year ago because CB3 is guaranteed to ruin all my work at some point, usually within an hour of sitting down with it, often within mere minutes. BM3 also has a showstopper bug in its fx automation, but at least I know where that one is. The CB3 bugs pop up everywhere with no rhyme or reason. NS2 has some serious limitations, but has never crashed on me and never deleted my work. I’ve ended up just embracing its limitations as a way of forcing me to get creative in working around them. I rarely even think about the missing audio tracks or fx automation any more, and the UX of NS2 is so far ahead of anything else on a touch interface that going back to Cubasis is always an exercise in frustration for me.

I’m glad it works for others though and should probably stop sticking my oar in on these threads.

What are NS2’s limitations for you as compared to Cubasis 3? (Besides lack of audio tracks?)

The biggest one is being unable to automate FX other than the built in ones. I’d pay full price for an NS2.5 upgrade with just that added.

Thanks!

Me too. AUfx automation and audio tracks. I’d pay for that.

ChancedMusic

@israelite said:

@drcongo said:
UX of NS2 is so far ahead of anything else on a touch interface that going back to Cubasis is always an exercise in frustration for me.

That's very well put and reflects what many users are experiencing.
Steinberg can learn a lot from NS2. Why there is basically the same navigation bar in piano roll as in the main app window? And why the important buttons for note manipulation are so tiny? It is a bit of a husstle to work with piano roll.
Why there are so many rarely used buttons (Help, Shop) constantly on the screen.
Cubasis UI asks for a serious rethinking.

Perhaps Cubasis 4 in ca. 2023 will be a game changer

And see I entirely disagree. NS2’s UI feels cluttered and inconsistent. At least on iPhone, they’re small and sensitive. You also have to dig press to get to things like quantise.

If your buttons are tiny in CB3, you might not have it on the right scaling option for your device.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

israelite

@DukeWonder said:

@israelite said:

@drcongo said:
UX of NS2 is so far ahead of anything else on a touch interface that going back to Cubasis is always an exercise in frustration for me.

That's very well put and reflects what many users are experiencing.
Steinberg can learn a lot from NS2. Why there is basically the same navigation bar in piano roll as in the main app window? And why the important buttons for note manipulation are so tiny? It is a bit of a husstle to work with piano roll.
Why there are so many rarely used buttons (Help, Shop) constantly on the screen.
Cubasis UI asks for a serious rethinking.

Perhaps Cubasis 4 in ca. 2023 will be a game changer

And see I entirely disagree. NS2’s UI feels cluttered and inconsistent. At least on iPhone, they’re small and sensitive. You also have to dig press to get to things like quantise.

If your buttons are tiny in CB3, you might not have it on the right scaling option for your device.

Great that we have a choice, so everyone can choose the app that feels creatively the best. And hopefully as the interfaces evolve, it would be easier and more natural to work with them. Cheers

drcongo

@DukeWonder I spend a lot of time in the piano roll in my DAWs, the single most frustrating UI thing in me in CB3 is piano roll editing. An example of where I feel NS2 gets things so right is having touch on the entire piano roll / swimlanes views dedicated to selection and zoom - want to zoom in, select a range of notes and move them: two finger pinch, one finger select, move (or change duration) with the dedicated sliders - it's impossible to do anything by accident.

CB3 adds into this flow both an incredibly annoying pause while you wait for the selection bouncing box thing and some absurdly small x/y lock buttons that you have to hold with your other hand while dragging - which I imagine is fine on a phone, but when you're holding a large iPad, hitting and holding that tiny button with the hand that's holding the iPad while moving the notes with the other will give you RSI in no time. Oh, and the fact that you can't x-drag a single beat without using the tiny x lock button because it lengthens instead of moves.

There's plenty in CB3 that I like, but hardly anything that I think isn't done better in NS2. Having said that, it's an incredibly high bar - I actually think NS2 has the best touch interface of any app I've ever used. It's a masterclass in UI design for touch input.

ChancedMusic

@drcongo said:
@DukeWonder I spend a lot of time in the piano roll in my DAWs, the single most frustrating UI thing in me in CB3 is piano roll editing. An example of where I feel NS2 gets things so right is having touch on the entire piano roll / swimlanes views dedicated to selection and zoom - want to zoom in, select a range of notes and move them: two finger pinch, one finger select, move (or change duration) with the dedicated sliders - it's impossible to do anything by accident.

CB3 adds into this flow both an incredibly annoying pause while you wait for the selection bouncing box thing and some absurdly small x/y lock buttons that you have to hold with your other hand while dragging - which I imagine is fine on a phone, but when you're holding a large iPad, hitting and holding that tiny button with the hand that's holding the iPad while moving the notes with the other will give you RSI in no time. Oh, and the fact that you can't x-drag a single beat without using the tiny x lock button because it lengthens instead of moves.

There's plenty in CB3 that I like, but hardly anything that I think isn't done better in NS2. Having said that, it's an incredibly high bar - I actually think NS2 has the best touch interface of any app I've ever used. It's a masterclass in UI design for touch input.

Okay so I can see how that would be annoying if you’re holding the iPad in your hands while making music.

My question is why are you holding an iPad in your hands while making music? I don’t think anyone makes a mobile DAW thinking that you’re standing holding your iPad in the air while jamming out some tunes.

Call me crazy, but if I have my iPad out, I’m sitting and have it on my lap. If I’m standing, I’m using my phone.

I’m also still convinced that you have the scaling on the wrong setting on your device. All of the CB3 buttons are bigger than the NS2 piano roll controls.

AudioGus

@DukeWonder said:

@drcongo said:
@DukeWonder I spend a lot of time in the piano roll in my DAWs, the single most frustrating UI thing in me in CB3 is piano roll editing. An example of where I feel NS2 gets things so right is having touch on the entire piano roll / swimlanes views dedicated to selection and zoom - want to zoom in, select a range of notes and move them: two finger pinch, one finger select, move (or change duration) with the dedicated sliders - it's impossible to do anything by accident.

CB3 adds into this flow both an incredibly annoying pause while you wait for the selection bouncing box thing and some absurdly small x/y lock buttons that you have to hold with your other hand while dragging - which I imagine is fine on a phone, but when you're holding a large iPad, hitting and holding that tiny button with the hand that's holding the iPad while moving the notes with the other will give you RSI in no time. Oh, and the fact that you can't x-drag a single beat without using the tiny x lock button because it lengthens instead of moves.

There's plenty in CB3 that I like, but hardly anything that I think isn't done better in NS2. Having said that, it's an incredibly high bar - I actually think NS2 has the best touch interface of any app I've ever used. It's a masterclass in UI design for touch input.

Okay so I can see how that would be annoying if you’re holding the iPad in your hands while making music.

My question is why are you holding an iPad in your hands while making music? I don’t think anyone makes a mobile DAW thinking that you’re standing holding your iPad in the air while jamming out some tunes.

Call me crazy, but if I have my iPad out, I’m sitting and have it on my lap. If I’m standing, I’m using my phone.

While commuting I would use my iPad while walking down the street. 40min walking/standing and 30 min on the train (with a table) twice a day for many years. The phone is way too small for walking and jamming as I had to hold it too close to my face and lose periphery (danger, danger!). The 9.7 iPad in a slightly thick case had the perfect grip. I could hold it at waist level and all good. Hmmm, getting nostalgic now! NS2 was the best host for this with BM3 in second and Cubasis third. (Gadget was good too but no AUs so no Gadget).

Oh and this is also why no headphone jack was a horrifying thought as the center placed dongle would have made walking and jamming impossible. They should put that stupid port where the headphone jack was.

ChancedMusic

@AudioGus said:

@DukeWonder said:

@drcongo said:
@DukeWonder I spend a lot of time in the piano roll in my DAWs, the single most frustrating UI thing in me in CB3 is piano roll editing. An example of where I feel NS2 gets things so right is having touch on the entire piano roll / swimlanes views dedicated to selection and zoom - want to zoom in, select a range of notes and move them: two finger pinch, one finger select, move (or change duration) with the dedicated sliders - it's impossible to do anything by accident.

CB3 adds into this flow both an incredibly annoying pause while you wait for the selection bouncing box thing and some absurdly small x/y lock buttons that you have to hold with your other hand while dragging - which I imagine is fine on a phone, but when you're holding a large iPad, hitting and holding that tiny button with the hand that's holding the iPad while moving the notes with the other will give you RSI in no time. Oh, and the fact that you can't x-drag a single beat without using the tiny x lock button because it lengthens instead of moves.

There's plenty in CB3 that I like, but hardly anything that I think isn't done better in NS2. Having said that, it's an incredibly high bar - I actually think NS2 has the best touch interface of any app I've ever used. It's a masterclass in UI design for touch input.

Okay so I can see how that would be annoying if you’re holding the iPad in your hands while making music.

My question is why are you holding an iPad in your hands while making music? I don’t think anyone makes a mobile DAW thinking that you’re standing holding your iPad in the air while jamming out some tunes.

Call me crazy, but if I have my iPad out, I’m sitting and have it on my lap. If I’m standing, I’m using my phone.

While commuting I would use my iPad while walking down the street. 40min walking/standing and 30 min on the train (with a table) twice a day for many years. The phone is way too small for walking and jamming as I had to hold it too close to my face and lose periphery (danger, danger!). The 9.7 iPad in a slightly thick case had the perfect grip. I could hold it at waist level and all good. Hmmm, getting nostalgic now! NS2 was the best host for this with BM3 in second and Cubasis third. (Gadget was good too but no AUs so no Gadget).

Oh and this is also why no headphone jack was a horrifying thought as the center placed dongle would have made walking and jamming impossible. They should put that stupid port where the headphone jack was.

I gotta say that’s pretty impressive. I cannot imagine walking down the street and jamming at the same time. I can see how NS2 would be better if you need to do it all with one hand.

I don’t think about the headphone jack issue because I’m so used to it by now. I just put the cord between my middle and ring finger with the cable going behind my hand. I got used to this before I started music back when I’d play things like PUBG on my phone.

drcongo

That is impressive, I definitely couldn’t walk and jam at the same time. I’m currently sat sideways on the sofa with my knees up and the iPad resting on them, I do still need to hold it with my left hand while I do that (in fact, the only thing that annoys me about iPads is that I’ve never found a position in which I can use it two handed in comfort, I’m always having to support it with one hand and operate with the other. This is the size of that button I mentioned on my screen...

Quite hard to hold that down with the hand that’s supporting the weight of the iPad.

I might actually have to start using my phone to see what the ergonomics are like there.

iammane

Giving this a shot again since I just picked up a BT keyboard and mouse. So far pretty impressed with how well it works in general. The keyboard shortcuts for Cubasis are MAD NICE.

AudioGus

@drcongo said:
That is impressive, I definitely couldn’t walk and jam at the same time. I’m currently sat sideways on the sofa with my knees up and the iPad resting on them, I do still need to hold it with my left hand while I do that (in fact, the only thing that annoys me about iPads is that I’ve never found a position in which I can use it two handed in comfort, I’m always having to support it with one hand and operate with the other. This is the size of that button I mentioned on my screen...

Quite hard to hold that down with the hand that’s supporting the weight of the iPad.

I might actually have to start using my phone to see what the ergonomics are like there.

this is my couch rig... working on integrating Maschine now.

GLacey

@AudioGus said:

this is my couch rig... working on integrating Maschine now.

That's really cool! I like it!

IOSSOS

@AudioGus said:

@drcongo said:
That is impressive, I definitely couldn’t walk and jam at the same time. I’m currently sat sideways on the sofa with my knees up and the iPad resting on them, I do still need to hold it with my left hand while I do that (in fact, the only thing that annoys me about iPads is that I’ve never found a position in which I can use it two handed in comfort, I’m always having to support it with one hand and operate with the other. This is the size of that button I mentioned on my screen...

Quite hard to hold that down with the hand that’s supporting the weight of the iPad.

I might actually have to start using my phone to see what the ergonomics are like there.

this is my couch rig... working on integrating Maschine now.

Really cool set up for comfort.....

periurban

@Telstar5 said:

@BroCoast said:

@Telstar5 said:
Great post . Only thing that bugs me about Cubasis 3 is that once I begin recording in 4/4 I have to STAY in 4/4. You can’t mix time signatures as in throwing in a bar of 5/4 here and there.

Easy enough to just drop some 5/4 into a 4/4 project though? I never even use the time sig options in DAWs.

@BroCoast : You can’t do that unless you record everything to audio first amd then edit . There’s no way to do it in MIDI

Actually, there is, and I do it all the time. You just have to ignore the first note emphasis on the metronome or create your own 5/4 metronome MIDI template.

periurban

@ehehehe said:
Unless you have the new air or a pro or a a14 phone, just disable multicore and things will be much more stable. Wasn’t able to even run Drum Computer smoothly before i did on a 2020 ipad.

Now its mostly that Samplr isn’t recording any audio that’s my main problem, along with state saves and buggy auv3s. Wish it snapped to zero points when splitting and had proper destructive editing from the timeline. With the proper plugins i find C3 to be pretty damn stable and most of all very intuitive. Also, defaulting midi plugin selection to the main list would be helpful.

I have the 2018 iPad Pro, which I do believe has multicore processing, and until I switched it off in CB3 the audio was cracking all the time.

periurban

@hibjshop said:
@qryss fwiw i was experiencing extreme dsp spikes causing crackling etc. Then i followed a suggestion for these two setting, device latency and audio engine latency. Specs are a little over my head but CB3 is running ALOT smoother now. Ipad air 3.

How is your iPad mic running at such a low latency? Mine shows 24.7ms. 2018 iPad Pro.

drcongo

That's amazing @AudioGus

Telstar5

@periurban said:

@Telstar5 said:

@BroCoast said:

@Telstar5 said:
Great post . Only thing that bugs me about Cubasis 3 is that once I begin recording in 4/4 I have to STAY in 4/4. You can’t mix time signatures as in throwing in a bar of 5/4 here and there.

Easy enough to just drop some 5/4 into a 4/4 project though? I never even use the time sig options in DAWs.

@BroCoast : You can’t do that unless you record everything to audio first amd then edit . There’s no way to do it in MIDI

Actually, there is, and I do it all the time. You just have to ignore the first note emphasis on the metronome or create your own 5/4 metronome MIDI template.

I’m talking about mixing time signatures,I.e sticking a single bar of 5/4 in the midst of a 4/4 song like you can do so easily in NS2

Pummelfee

I have a specific question about Cubasis 3. As i read, MIDI learn can be done. But also for AUV3 PlugIns, like in AUM? I would like to control some PlugIns like i do/did in AUM. As its on Sale, i wonder if i should upgrade from my old CB2 ...

Antos3345

I think you forgot a key competitor - Logic Pro.

MadGav

@Antos3345 said:
I think you forgot a key competitor - Logic Pro.

I think you forgot to check the dates on this thread!

NoiseHorse

Even all these years later I still respect @Audiogus couch!

Antos3345

@MadGav said:

@Antos3345 said:
I think you forgot a key competitor - Logic Pro.

I think you forgot to check the dates on this thread!

ah ok.. didn't see that