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@tahiche : here is my loopy mute Mozaic thing
https://patchstorage.com/loopy-mute-control/
You could alter the script to be mute and unmute rather than toggle with a small amount of work and send events to it from LK.
Thanks!.
I’m unclear as how to use it. Does it mute aum channels or Loopy tracks?. In either case you’d have to midi learn the notes to do the muting, . Right?.
Also I still can’t see how to alter the script to mute/unmute. Actually Id have the same problem with AUM tracks muting, I can only do it via CC messages, not notes as notes only have a single state (vs 0-127 on-off of CC).
Out of curiosity... given the sheer amount of mappable parameters. How come there’s no “unmute” for a track?. Now I remember having run into this very question in the past.
Another minor problem in using loopy is that if I have, say, 3 song parts and 3 instruments it actually requires 9 aum tracks since you can’t group Loopy track outputs.
Thank u, appreciate it!.
The script mutes Loopy tracks. The way the script works is you set up the MIDI bindings In Loopy used by the script. Tapping the pads toggles the mute of the corresponding loopy track. You can midi learn the pads with AUM’s midi control in order to send events that toggle them. If you start things off in a known state, the pads’ state will match that of Loopy. The script was shared at someone’s request — so it is not very polished , but easily customized. A little tweaking could make it behave as if you were sending a mute or unmute even though it is really toggling.
You would have to ask @Michael why there isn’t an unmute action. Most likely, no one ever asked.
If you want your groups to have their own fader, use busses to send the grouped tracks to the same bus
@tahiche : I just realized that if you mute/unmute AUM channels, you don’t need busses necessarily. You could set all the tracks in a group to respond to the same CC for muting.
@tahiche : looking at the script and realizing that (since i wrote it without intending to share) it is pretty opaque if you don't know Loopy and Mozaic, I am going to update it with a better description and with some changes to make it easier to modify/customize.
What events do you want to be sending to mute/unmute things?
The way it would work is that you set up the bindings in Loopy as will be described in the script. Loopy doesn't allow import/export of bindings so that will be the main thing to set up.
Then to make sure Loopy is in a known state, all tracks would get muted. After that the script would be able to mute/unmute as needed by either tapping the corresponding pad or sending an event.
So, let me know what you envision the events you want to send to mute/unmute.
Hi, I know how to bind midi and set it up, that wouldn’t be a problem. But I still can’t see how it’d work in my scenario with LK, since the toggle wouldn’t work as I explained before. I can see how it works with Mozaic but it wouldn’t with LK.
You say it wouldn't work with LK but haven't explained how you would want it to work.
If you explain how you want it to work there probably is a way to add logic to do what you need , but I don't know what that is.
I don't know why Loopy has a "Mute" MIDI control endpoint and no dedicated "Unmute" endpoint but there is also a "Toggle Mute" function which can be mapped per track. That's what I use.
With a little script inserted between loopy and the midi talking to it, one can create mute and unmute commands if one doesn't want toggle (which has been fine for me).
I can't find @wim script for Gauss on Patchstorage. I'd love to get a hold of it.
Word. For the greater good, I guess it may be worth noting that 'Mute' and 'Toggle Mute' do work slightly differently. 'Mute' does exactly what it says and only that. 'Toggle Mute' does exactly what it says... unless the target track is empty. If it's empty and 'Toggle Mute' is sent, Loopy will initiate recording on that track.
I think a lot of the Loopy commands when issued to an empty track start recording -- I can see the logic behind that. For the scripts I build (which have mostly just been to make things work per my personal prefs), i assume that i will only mute/unmute tracks that I've already recorded
Hi, I did explain (at least tried to) explain what I’m trying to do
Here’s a video of a previous song in case it helps to see it in action.
Enso (8 instances) is definitely unstable. Crashes constantly loosing every file and midi mapping.
It’s a pity because I did get a hold of it, the ui is a bit confusing at first, and quite liked it. Specially the “Sectors” functionality, super useful to make little repeating snippets. In the case of these improvs specially useful cos you can get little fragments and add a lot of variation.
I’m probably killing Enso with too many instances, Loopy HD has no “unmute” and I can’t get around that.
So I’m back to Drambo.
Good: it doesn’t crash, it’s stable, powerful as hell.
Bad: takes a lot more time to setup, a sampler is not a looper and it’s quirky. No Sectors, and you really can’t replicate enso’s sectors with slices (I tried) without loosing sync if the slices are somehow off beat. You also get far more clicks and clacks when looping compared to Enso.
From my previous “fight” I find that the easiest and most reliable way to work with stems in Drambo and LK is by just using long notes in LK and “gate” mode trigger in Flexi. That is, use it as a good old sampler, no sequencing in Drambo.
@tahiche : You keep mentioning that Loopy has no 'unumute', and I have been trying to tell you that my script can be modified (and I am willing to to do it) so that if it is stuck in between Loopy and LK (or whatever else is sending MIDI) and essentially give you both mute and unmute rather than "toggle mute".
I have not understood exactly how you want it to work with LK. I am happy to do some work. I did not understand the specifics of how you want it to work. So, if you could give me a detailed description, I can see what I can do. Directing me back to your earlier post is not what I need.
To repeat: I can set up a script to give you discrete mute/unmute.
Yeah! And you can always use a second Drambo instance for sequencing.
Enso can only do about 4 instances reliably and at sane latency settings.
Hi!. I tried to explain it in words and then hoped the video would clarify but let me try again.
LK has sequences and scenes that you trigger as you wish, so you can build a song as you go, choosing what sequence or scene plays next on the go. This is important, the key (and fun) is there’s no preset song structure.
For simplicity let’s say we have 3 sequences named A,B and C. Where each scene plays one drum loop/part and mutes the rest. Because, remember, these are song parts, these drum loops don’t play together.
So if I press a sequence the following will need to happen with the Loops muting. This is what I need to program in LK sending midi messages.
Say I’m playing A and switch to B
Current A: A (unmute), B (mute), C (mute)
Now press B:
Expected B: A (mute), B (unmute), C (mute)
But what you actually get is this
What you get B: A (mute), B (unmute), C (unmute)
See how “Toggle” unmutes C when it shouldn’t?. I’m guessing you could program the Mozaic script to store current value of mute per loopy loop instance and only trigger the Toggle Mute CC if the expected state is different to the current one.
But bear in mind that this is only an example, in reality i have loops for drums, bass, and 2 guitars, so it’d have to check and act by groups. Number of loops, groups, and loops per group is not fixed and should be configurable, as is the scenes it should respond to (there might be 2 bass loops but 4 guitar1 loops).. Sounds like a quite a project to me!. @espiegel123 thanks a lot for your attention, I hope it’s clearer. But please don’t do this for me! 🙏😂 I really admire and would love to see the result of this, but I’ve already settled on Drambo for the time being. I had to redo the whole thing and I’d like to start hearing some sound for a change!. Cheers!
@rs2000 being a Drambo guru I’m glad you agree!. I don’t know if you remember, but I kept asking for help last time, when I tried to do it via Drambo scenes. Where each scene would play its own thing. But it was pretty much undoable with varying length samples, switching patterns halfway, etc. Writing the notes and lengths in Lk (or another Drambo for sequencing as you point out) just works and really makes more sense. I do hope Drambo gets a looper, I know it’s in the roadmap.
As for replicating Enso “Sectors” in Drambo I’d love yo hear your comment. The nice thing about Sectors is that a loop is 360’ , so sectors that are length 180, 90, 45... will do nice synced looping. You can do that with equal size slices via the create slices menu, say 8 slices. But you can’t move them!. The fun about sectors is you can scrub about until you find a section you like. As soon as you move slices in Drambo to find the nice short loop you’re out of sync. There’s no way to set a fixed length between slices. You could do it manually looking at the waveform, doable for say a machine drum, but if using a guitar stem it drifts out of time.
Btw I love this forum... Music+geeking, what’s not to love? 🙌
OK @tahiche, first let me understand where you want to go.
The property of an Enso section is that you can adjust its start, end and length independently.
This already excludes using slices because they do the opposite: Place fixed locators on a sample.
I see two options to replicate Enso sections with fixed length that can be moved freely:
1. Use one Drambo instance per loop and use two scenes to control Flexi's Offset, Loop start and Loop end knobs.
2. Use MIDI remote mapping to Flexi's Offset, Loop start and Loop end knobs. By either using incremental/relative MIDI controllers or absolute controls plus Drambo's "Range" feature in the MIDI mapping menu, fine tuning is possible. This would allow for using multiple loops inside one Drambo instance.
Is this what you're looking for?
I understand how LK works and why toggle is not a good solution. As I said, forget toggle and imagine that you have straightforward mute and unmute available. What do you want to send from LK?
One way to go is that when your LK clips have note events or cc’s at the start that set the mute state for each loop.
Another way to go is to have an easily configurable script that knows about the various sets of loops and has note or cc triggers to select the set. Selecting the set would result in only that sets loops being audible. To my mind, this would be the way to go.
Do you want to send notes to turn loops on/off? Do you want MIDI CCs? Do you want to send a mute event and unmute event when needed or do you envision a loop only being audible while some corresponding note is held?
Do you want to be able to define sets of loops and send a command that results in just the loops in the set to be active?
@tahiche Did it work out for you now?
Sorry for the delay. Was busy making my life miserable with a 50GB Samples From Mars special deal that I can’t fit anywhere 🙃
I don’t get how you can make sure the loop is the right length. I think I’m missing something. You can’t quantize loop start and end... can you?
In the video (thanks for that¡) it sounds fine, but are you setting the loop points according to the transients on the waveform?. As I said that would work with a beat that’s right on time, but would drift out of sync with a recorded guitar performance when in loop mode.
In Enso you know the section is 45 long and wherever start and end is it’s exactly 45 which is 1/8 the total (360) so it’s on time. I can’t see how you can do a “exactly 1/8 of the loop length” section loop with variable start point. I’m sure it’s possible and maybe I’m not seeing it in your explanation.
Thanks!.
This is the way I do it in LK. Notes are easier to deal with than CC.
I really appreciate your help, but as I said im doing it with Drambo now, I don’t want to waste your time. Unless you’re curious and want to try it out yourself , I’d love to see how you do it.
Cheers! 🙏
You can. With the Flexi settings shown in the video, the loop is always launched in sync with the beat.
Same for recording: Using pattern sync, the REC button will act as an "arm" knob for starting and stopping recording so your recorded loop will already be cut to your chosen beat grid.
You don't even need to see or hear the waveform to do this. The trick is to set start and end points to proper values dynamically. The crossfaded scene is just for demonstrating the working principle, in "real life" you would rather use MIDI CC to set start and end point knobs to beat and sub beat divisions.
MIDI helps us here: CC values cover a range of 128 steps which are perfect for subdividing your recorded loop so you can do that with your controller of choice.
Here's how I would do it (a bit of work to set up but you only need to do that once and save it as a looper template):
@rs2000 wow 😳
So you’re mapping these, send the midi out and back in?. I suppose that’s to make up for the fact that these knobs are not modulatable form within Drambo, right?. If you could modulate the, with modules like you can with the offset it wouldn’t be necessary, I guess. This is some serious ninja stuff!.
How do you set the loop back port?. I have midiTools... so you send it out to Network Session and then through the loop back back to another channel and into Drambo?. I’ll search around.
Thanks!
I’m testing in standalone, I’ll figure out the midi out/in later. One thing at a time...
Midi mapping offset and loop start works perfectly, here I’m doing it with a slider. What I can’t figure is the loop end. My stem is not in sync with the values provided in flexi. It’s longer than any of those... so I can’t see how to make a fixed length. It doesn’t really bother me as much, it’s not a deal breaker. I can retrigger from an LK sequence as many times as I need it to. This is nice!
Exactly.
I'm using the free standalone FreEWI app. As long as you have it running in the background, it will provide a MIDI mirror port. Everything you send to it from a MIDI out module is available from the same MIDI port as an input.
If you play the full loop from start to end and set Flexi "Sync" value to 4/8/16 beats, will the loop play in sync then?
If not, your loop is probably either too long or not cut precisely...
😊👍🏼