GeoSwam and Audio Modeling instruments

[Deleted User]

I am curious in the GeoSwam instruments, about playing dynamics - does expression control the initial loudness of the note and then also crescendo/decrescendo of a sustained note? There is no velocity using the iPad glass (unless using Velocity Keyboard), so just curious how to get the most realistic playing from these nice sounding instruments.

Also, vs. Audio Modeling versions, how do the GeoSwam versions compare?

Thanks for any help before I take the plunge

rud

@mcm if you’re playing the glass then enabling the ‘finger expression’ button allows to you alter your loudness by sliding up the square that the note is in. If you have ‘pad expression’ enabled then you use the x/y controller moving up and down. This is great as left to right will alter things like the bow position or formant adding more expression. I’m lucky cos I dug out my foot controller so I can alter these with my feet while playing 2 handed on the screen.
For me the Geo Swam instruments are fantastic and are well worth it.
I’m yet to get any Audio Modeling brass but I will use them with Geoshred for sure.

rud

Also, if you have flutter/growl/overblow enabled then they kick in as you get near the top of the note area (or top of the x/y pad if you’re in pad expression). Not to be overused but effective when used sparingly.

Gavinski

@McM said:
I am curious in the GeoSwam instruments, about playing dynamics - does expression control the initial loudness of the note and then also crescendo/decrescendo of a sustained note? There is no velocity using the iPad glass (unless using Velocity Keyboard), so just curious how to get the most realistic playing from these nice sounding instruments.

Also, vs. Audio Modeling versions, how do the GeoSwam versions compare?

Thanks for any help before I take the plunge

This will be useful! Geoshred is deep, I am coming to appreciate it more and more as I use it, and it is definitely the best choice for virtual mpe keyboard to control other mpe synths etc on iOS, in my opinion. Certainly for monophonic apps like Swam where you use the expression pad with left hand and do note triggering, vibrato, tremolo, pitch bend with the right hand. As Ian said, if using two hands, probably an expression pedal would be ideal.

Gavinski

Also, GeoSwam and the Audio modeling Swam releases are the same code - I believe so anyway - in terms of sound, and that is also the same as desktop. But the access to tweaking parameters is a bit different on all of them. Midi Learn is beautifully done on the Swam apps. Geoshred has the advantage of the playing surface. Overall, the Swam apps take less time to get familiar with than Geoshred if you want to dive in. Geoshred is as simple as hell if you just want to play presets, but if you start diving under the hood it is extremely deep and takes time to learn.

GovernorSilver

With Finger Expr turned on, the initial volume of the note is determined by the placement of your finger on the note pad in the "keyboard". I've gotten decent, from repeated practice, at fading in notes by placing my finger as low as I can place it without triggering the note in the next row below, then moving the finger up.

I've generally preferred to control volume and pitch with the same finger/hand, only using the other hand to turn Flutter, Growl, etc. off and on.

Paulo164

@McM said:
I am curious in the GeoSwam instruments, about playing dynamics - does expression control the initial loudness of the note and then also crescendo/decrescendo of a sustained note? There is no velocity using the iPad glass (unless using Velocity Keyboard), so just curious how to get the most realistic playing from these nice sounding instruments.

Also, vs. Audio Modeling versions, how do the GeoSwam versions compare?
Thanks for any help before I take the plunge

Hi,
The best is to override the velocity so that you can control both velocity and expression with the XY Pad, independently of the playing finger position.

[Deleted User]

Some orchestral sound libraries have cross fade between velocity layers controlled by mod wheel, ignoring key velocity. Seems like Audio Modeling apps can be setup this way?

Also GeoSwam difference to Audio Modeling seems to be the GeoShred soft-keyboard only? Also maybe price of geoshred instruments are a little lower?

Paulo164

@McM said:
Some orchestral sound libraries have cross fade between velocity layers controlled by mod wheel, ignoring key velocity. Seems like Audio Modeling apps can be setup this way?

Also GeoSwam difference to Audio Modeling seems to be the GeoShred soft-keyboard only? Also maybe price of geoshred instruments are a little lower?

I think what you refer to with "cross fade between velocity layers controlled by mod wheel" is what Audio Modelling calls "Expression" (ie. dynamic after the note hit).
Geoshred has only a subset of the standalone SWAM apps parameters but the most important parameters are here and you have an overall very good control over the sound. Finally, I would say that if you intend to play SWAM instruments with the Geoshred surface, then the GeoSwam IAPs are excellent because very easy to map to the control surface. And cheaper...

espiegel123

@McM said:
Some orchestral sound libraries have cross fade between velocity layers controlled by mod wheel, ignoring key velocity. Seems like Audio Modeling apps can be setup this way?

Also GeoSwam difference to Audio Modeling seems to be the GeoShred soft-keyboard only? Also maybe price of geoshred instruments are a little lower?

The Expression control is a much more complex thing than the cross-fading of samples. These things model the physical system. Words don’t capture it well. Watch Gavinski’s tutorial and other demos and you hear how much more expressive these are than sample-based brass instruments. And if the sound doesn’t seem dramatically different, you can safely pass on them.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@Gavinski said:

This will be useful! Geoshred is deep, I am coming to appreciate it more and more as I use it, and it is definitely the best choice for virtual mpe keyboard to control other mpe synths etc on iOS, in my opinion. Certainly for monophonic apps like Swam where you use the expression pad with left hand and do note triggering, vibrato, tremolo, pitch bend with the right hand. As Ian said, if using two hands, probably an expression pedal would be ideal.

Velocity kb is also very good, but far more limited in features than GeoShred. If VK will do the job, I prefer it to Geoshred. But often it lacks a feature I need that GeoShred has.

[Deleted User]

@espiegel123 said:

@McM said:
Some orchestral sound libraries have cross fade between velocity layers controlled by mod wheel, ignoring key velocity. Seems like Audio Modeling apps can be setup this way?

Also GeoSwam difference to Audio Modeling seems to be the GeoShred soft-keyboard only? Also maybe price of geoshred instruments are a little lower?

The Expression control is a much more complex thing than the cross-fading of samples. These things model the physical system. Words don’t capture it well. Watch Gavinski’s tutorial and other demos and you hear how much more expressive these are than sample-based brass instruments. And if the sound doesn’t seem dramatically different, you can safely pass on them.

Understood it’s more more complex than just a cross fade, and definitely sold on the sound. Was just trying to get a sense of the expression controls via mod wheel and if the sounds could be played by regular keyboard + mod wheel. I don’t have expression pedals so my options are regular keyboard key+mod wheel or iPad virtual keyboard such as velocity KB or geoshred.

[Deleted User]

Still not sure if I should purchase in GS or not. Seems the only advantage is geoshred playing surface, and $15 vs. $30 for audio modeling apps. Also selection is different for now I assume?
Leaning toward AM apps

espiegel123

@McM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@McM said:
Some orchestral sound libraries have cross fade between velocity layers controlled by mod wheel, ignoring key velocity. Seems like Audio Modeling apps can be setup this way?

Also GeoSwam difference to Audio Modeling seems to be the GeoShred soft-keyboard only? Also maybe price of geoshred instruments are a little lower?

The Expression control is a much more complex thing than the cross-fading of samples. These things model the physical system. Words don’t capture it well. Watch Gavinski’s tutorial and other demos and you hear how much more expressive these are than sample-based brass instruments. And if the sound doesn’t seem dramatically different, you can safely pass on them.

Understood it’s more more complex than just a cross fade, and definitely sold on the sound. Was just trying to get a sense of the expression controls via mod wheel and if the sounds could be played by regular keyboard + mod wheel. I don’t have expression pedals so my options are regular keyboard key+mod wheel or iPad virtual keyboard such as velocity KB or geoshred.

You can map any midi cc to expression.

Gavinski

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@Gavinski said:

This will be useful! Geoshred is deep, I am coming to appreciate it more and more as I use it, and it is definitely the best choice for virtual mpe keyboard to control other mpe synths etc on iOS, in my opinion. Certainly for monophonic apps like Swam where you use the expression pad with left hand and do note triggering, vibrato, tremolo, pitch bend with the right hand. As Ian said, if using two hands, probably an expression pedal would be ideal.

Velocity kb is also very good, but far more limited in features than GeoShred. If VK will do the job, I prefer it to Geoshred. But often it lacks a feature I need that GeoShred has.

I just find I am leaning more towards using the expression pad on geoshred rather than assigning expression to the the keys themselves. At least for monophonic things like these swam instruments. That gives geoshred the edge for me personally, at the moment.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@Gavinski said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@Gavinski said:

This will be useful! Geoshred is deep, I am coming to appreciate it more and more as I use it, and it is definitely the best choice for virtual mpe keyboard to control other mpe synths etc on iOS, in my opinion. Certainly for monophonic apps like Swam where you use the expression pad with left hand and do note triggering, vibrato, tremolo, pitch bend with the right hand. As Ian said, if using two hands, probably an expression pedal would be ideal.

Velocity kb is also very good, but far more limited in features than GeoShred. If VK will do the job, I prefer it to Geoshred. But often it lacks a feature I need that GeoShred has.

I just find I am leaning more towards using the expression pad on geoshred rather than assigning expression to the the keys themselves. At least for monophonic things like these swam instruments. That gives geoshred the edge for me personally, at the moment.

I like the pad too. Sometimes I set up Rozeta XY to use with VKbd just to have an au process. But having it in two different apps starts to sap the advantage of au then. No perfect solution....

Gavinski

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@Gavinski said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@Gavinski said:

This will be useful! Geoshred is deep, I am coming to appreciate it more and more as I use it, and it is definitely the best choice for virtual mpe keyboard to control other mpe synths etc on iOS, in my opinion. Certainly for monophonic apps like Swam where you use the expression pad with left hand and do note triggering, vibrato, tremolo, pitch bend with the right hand. As Ian said, if using two hands, probably an expression pedal would be ideal.

Velocity kb is also very good, but far more limited in features than GeoShred. If VK will do the job, I prefer it to Geoshred. But often it lacks a feature I need that GeoShred has.

I just find I am leaning more towards using the expression pad on geoshred rather than assigning expression to the the keys themselves. At least for monophonic things like these swam instruments. That gives geoshred the edge for me personally, at the moment.

I like the pad too. Sometimes I set up Rozeta XY to use with VKbd just to have an au process. But having it in two different apps starts to sap the advantage of au then. No perfect solution....

Yeah, that’s a good workaround too

Paulo164

@Gavinski said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@Gavinski said:

This will be useful! Geoshred is deep, I am coming to appreciate it more and more as I use it, and it is definitely the best choice for virtual mpe keyboard to control other mpe synths etc on iOS, in my opinion. Certainly for monophonic apps like Swam where you use the expression pad with left hand and do note triggering, vibrato, tremolo, pitch bend with the right hand. As Ian said, if using two hands, probably an expression pedal would be ideal.

Velocity kb is also very good, but far more limited in features than GeoShred. If VK will do the job, I prefer it to Geoshred. But often it lacks a feature I need that GeoShred has.

I just find I am leaning more towards using the expression pad on geoshred rather than assigning expression to the the keys themselves. At least for monophonic things like these swam instruments. That gives geoshred the edge for me personally, at the moment.

Same for me. Totally agree.