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2 questions re: iVCS3 and Casio CZ
1) How does the Apesoft iVCS3 on IOS compare to the desktop software XILS 3 or 4 or for that matter Arturia CZ V?
2) Is there an IOS app that recreates the Casio CZ with phase distortion and all, or another app that takes that general phase distortion concept a step furthur?
Comments
Phase 84 is the closest thing to CZ in AU form. Not exactly same architecture, but in concept, it's close. Also Polyphonic.
Shockwave is another PD synth, but it's monophonic and more modular in nature. More like u-he Bazille.
There's also a Drambo patch by @bcrichards that has CZ PD style wave morphing.
Nothing beats the original though. Both Arturia CZ V and VirtualCZ are excellent VSTs.
I love phase distortion and I wish there were more synths that used it.
wow, thanks! quick reply!
No problem, I was still editing. 😄 Added a bit more above.
ha, great! thanks again!
this is so helpful. I should ask you then, I was drawn to the phase distortion cause of the deep growly gravely sound from the Arturia CZ V demo, but not sure what I was hearing was phase distortion. What does it actually do to the sound? Is it accurate to say that it creates a kind of industrial grinding buzz kind of sound?
Not CZ style but Obsidian in NS2 has a basic PD oscillator type. You can stack up to three of them. I probably wouldn’t buy NS2 for this reason alone but in case you already own it (or were already interested in it for other reasons)...
Here’s a couple of screenshots. One is the available waveforms. other are the bits that can be modulated via LFO/ENV or track automation.
Thanks! I have NS2, will check out!
There’s also Mela (which replaced Nikolozi’s earlier NPD), though I don’t know how CZ-like it is
I can’t speak for the desktop versions but iVCS 3 is as close to the hardware as you’ll get*
As for the CZ there is an official Casio app called...
... wait for it ...
... CZ
It doesn’t suck.
*sacrifices goat to Satan Uli
Oops, was editing. More bits above now.
Ha, thanks!! much appreciated. Can't wait to check out Obsidian. (I never used NS2 after I bought it...) I really appreciate the image. It'd probably have taken me some time to figure it out!
Thanks!!! No need for sacrifice on my behalf!
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/cz-app-for-ipad/id954171519
I'm not a sound design expert, but I believe it has to do with how two waveforms are mixed.
PD is just like traditional FM, you have carrier and modulator oscillators. In traditional subtractive synthesis, multiple oscillators are stacked/mixed, but in PD/FM, one oscillator (carrier) is modulated by the other. Resulting in more gnarly sounds since the results can be harmonic and inharmonic.
The best thing about PD vs traditional FM is more traditional waveforms, like sawtooth and pulse waves. The results can be harsher but also pleasant. Plus there's also usually low pass filter to remove the harsher frequencies. Also, the overall architecture is a lot simpler. No envelopes per oscillator, just the ones for the filter and amp.
Definitely recommend Phase 84, since it's fairly easy to program.
Shockwave is my favorite synth for lead sounds. Really cuts through any mix.
Sadly IAA only so £20 is more than I’m willing to pay.
The first synth I bought was a CZ1000, would like an expanded clone - back in the day I got some way with generalising morphing between the CZ waveforms, I have ideas for going further but don’t have the urge to code outside work these days...
Mela is also a pretty good andidate nowadays, very flexible and fun to tweak.
https://nikolozi.com/mela
+1
I was never really into the CZ series but VirtualCZ is an outstanding synth. This on iOS 😍
I grabbed it when it went on sale. I’m sure it will go on sale again soon!
I just put Mela on my watch list, I’m also quite fond of Phase84.
@auxmux i think Casio’s Phase Distortion actually involves one digital waveform being ‘read’ by another waveform. So it’s not a running waveform that’s modulated by another, but rather a wave shape that’s scanned by another. Changing the “scanner” is what brings in the ‘phase distortion’ in this case.
The Wavetable Oscillators and Graphic Shapers are crying for attention already 😄
@auxmux yikes I didn’t mean to come off so ‘um-actually...’ just adding on some additional info. Sorry!
@rs2000 i recall @giku_beepstreet mentioned you could make the wavetables have 0 speed at their lowest speed and then use phase to CZ style distortion. And yeah, being able to modulate for instance one point on a graphic shaper to increase the ramp value would get you here instantly!
All this gives me flashback from the Amiga and my early 8bit synth that used 16-bit counters and 256 sample long 8-bit wave-tables, take the raw output byte from one of the tables multiply it with the output from another 8-bit wavetable and use high byte to set the read position for the first wave or it increase the read position for phasing (practically rotate the 256 byte 8-bit sample/wave-table on X-axis by x-steps).
In short the 8bit synth calculated a 256 sample long wave cycle every 50Hz that Amiga's Paula played at various sample-rates.
(For PWM I used a waveform that was 512 samples long but only used a 256 sample long segment where one of the other wave-tables could be used to change the offset, to not kill the CPU and keep the calculation running in one frame I could use up to 8 waveforms/sources and hard code the modulation source/destinations).
Gritty & Lo-Fi I know, still have the rough sources on my Amiga 600HD if I can get it to work and remember how the 68K assembler works...
Most of this stuff can be made with Drambo already but I do miss my 8-bit value-tables/step-lists for both modulation and sound generation. Oh well I can always use SunVox too.
Drambo is almost too 'clean' for the grit and I have to put decimators on the control signals so they don't update too fast
(Sound2CTL in SunVox solves this nicely as it allows be to set the sample-rate for the control signal).
Slight OT but I love to nerd out at times, sorry...
I've made some really cool animated sounds by wiggling around points on the graphic shaper. Do you know if modulatable nodes are in consideration for the future?
No worries @bcrichards
Wikipedia explains it better than I can: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_distortion_synthesis
Sorry non-Drambo users :O @auxmux you can achieve similar results to graphic shaper by creating a N-1 switch and just setting values with knobs running into the n-1 inputs. These are modulateable...
Or fading between two different graphic shapers.
@auxmux Actually the CZ patch that’s posted in patchstorage uses the fading between a liner graphic shaper (raw saw normalized from value 0-1) two one with a tiny ramp that’s used in classic CZ PD.
https://patchstorage.com/simple-casio-cz-phase-distortion-oscillator/
Question for @rs2000, or other Drambonists, in re: Instant Music. I’ve been picking this project apart, attempting to route the audio and midi to various destinations—and learning quite a lot. Audio routing is working fine (replaced the Sampler with Flexi, pretty cool), but MIDI/CV, not so much. This certainly reflects my lack of understanding of the relationship between MIDI AND CV, but that will become clearer with time I’m sure. In the meantime...any suggestions for using the models to trigger a midi instrument instead of the oscillators? Freakin’ love this project though. Reminds me of Kronos Quartet/Steve Reich when they transcribed speech to string instruments (Different Trains, check it out if you haven’t already). Thanks.