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of course, everything can happen, nothing is for sure.
I was just trying to debunk some myths and misunderstandings about Bitcoin, which are common in mainstream (i see it in this thread too). People think they understand it but in fact they don't, they are still building just on some old, long time obsolete, ideas. This market is evolving rapidly, you need to actively monitor it and learn new stuff if you want understand it.
Regarding NFTs - i guess when next Bitcoin bear market cycle starts, 99% of those things will drop to zero and they never recover. Dynamics of everything in crypto is comtrolled by Bitcoin cycles. But we'll see. Anyway, i don't have plan to invest any money into NFTs, too risky and speculative for me, i'm conservative so i rather buy some dips on Bitcoin to stack sats for my retirement :-)
@dendy understood - all good 👍
That’s right but even if their nominal value drops to zero they still have their value for the collectors of art. That’s the reason why I don’t buy NFTs because I don’t know about the value of these artworks for collectors but that is their real value.
@dendy
He's an assistant professor at an obscure private (and very right wing) university in the Czech republic (a university that offers studies in Ayn Rand's philosophy of all things), and the chief economist for a tiny bank. He has very little practical experience, most of his career has been spent at various far right institutes/think tanks etc. He's an economist in the very marginal Austrian school of economics which basically thinks we should return to the gold standard, and which has been declaring that the US should be suffering from hyper-inflation for the past 13 years.
None of that makes him wrong, but he's hardly an 'experienced and respected economy expert'. As far as I can tell he has zero experience in the energy sector, or energy economics. But one could also just judge the article on its merits. It rambles, fails to make coherent points, gets very confused about marginal costs (of all things), the only citation in the whole thing is a random tech site.
@krassmann
'IF' and that's the problem. How do you ensure that the original artist was the one who issued it. There are legal protocols for ensuring ownership and transfer of ownership in the physical world, but the NFT people haven't attempted to replicate any of that.
How do you legally verify that the person with the id was the same person as the artist, and not a fraudster? All blockchain does is tell you that this id (which could be owned by anyone, at least legally) is connected to this content.
Publish it where? Where is the legal proof (remember this stuff is ultimately settled in law courts if people fall out) that the person who published the key was in fact the artist? Who's verifying this stuff?
Yeah, but are those transactions legal transfers of property? Nobody really knows.
Ownership and transfer of goods, particularly immaterial goods, is a legal process. NFTs ignore that process, there is no legal precident or legislation about them. And the people pushing this stuff as far as I can tell have no legal experience, let alone relevant legal experience.
Super excited for the first example of some fraudster selling somebody elses stuff on an NFT and then claiming ownership.
So based on your logic he should write articles agains bitxoin, because he works for sector for which bitcoin is hugh level threat
But ok, i see you are very strongly hilding your ad hominem arguments . So here one more article about energy wasting fairytale. If you want, read it and think about it. If you don't well, stay inside your bubble, thanks god you won't stop progrss anyway ;-)
https://www.coindesk.com/the-last-word-on-bitcoins-energy-consumption
Yes NFTs only prove that they are official NFTs
They do not prove the creator of the NFT didn't steal the work and unfortunately because of the current hype it will probably even more fraud will be attempted by a small number of rogue NFT creators, but at least it'll be easy to trace to the rogue creator if that happens.
@dendy, My mistake. I was conflating two articles in separate tabs; the "random guy" was from Investopedia with an article with a near-identical headline. But I maintain that Trezor is a source to be considered with a grain of salt, as it obviously has a vested interest in the topic.
But I'm really perplexed by your personal attacks. It's very strange behavior for someone I consider incredibly helpful and patient when it comes to offering musicmaking advice.
@ExAsperis99
Probably i'm a bit oversensitive to those missinformations about energy wasting so i overreacted a bit. I tried to explain it probably 100x in last two months, so i'm a bit tired already. My appologize. Often i deal with people incapable to look out of their bubble which is a bit frustrating, so i started to assume everybody is like that, which is probably wrong way of thinking. So again, sorry.
Anyway please read that second article from coindesk. I hope if you have at least a little bit opened mind for different point of view, you will get some points mentioned there.This thing about "wasting" and "carbon footprint" is really gigantic missunderstanding and missinterpretation developed and spreaded by people who really never deeply digged into this area, they build everything just on some subjective assumptions and wild guesses, not real validated data. Sadly including some scientists :-(
Worse thing is once it is written in blockchain, it is there forever. There is no way to put it down even if real author requested it. It's simply technically not possible to remove any data from blockchain without dedeleting whole blockchain. Maybe i'm wrong, and there are stored just metadata for NFT, but file itself not - no idea, but in that case i'm womdering where is stored the file (let say image) itself.
This brings big risk that some law suit will really force shut down whole chain just because somebody uploads there some copyrighted material without owner permissions.. One of reasons why i don't like NFTs - cryptocurrency industry can get bad name in eyes of many people because of this - another potential weapon in hands of cryptocurrency oppoments, just this time it is real.
@dendy yeah I can see the potential problems there, but I think it might put off the average fraudster, the fact you are permanently linked to the fraud.
But as a creator I am interested in where this develops and I think overall it's good news for us.
Incidentally, I was quite intrigued by this technology a few years ago:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashgraph
But since then it hasn’t really achieved the traction I thought it would. It has a lot of interesting aspects as a distributed ledger tech, whereas the whole world seems obsessed with how well a blockchain main-net works for buying and selling.
I still think hashgraph would be ideal for a kind of NFT scheme, perhaps one where money isn’t part of the equation, rather, focused merely on authenticity.
Oo that sounds interesing, didn't know about this one... will study it more, thanks
NFT’s are simply another way of conducting business. It doesn’t matter if anyone “believes” in them, the fact is they are already being used to conduct business by artists and musicians. That’s fantastic for artists of all kinds.
Just for fun i "released" one my picture for friendly price 1 ETH
https://mintable.app/art/item/Psychedelic-nightmare-Thing-from-bad-trip/nl2VIteBo_685z0
Sure, why not? NFT’s are a new marketplace, which means the buyers and sellers determine the value of things by auction or negotiation, instead of an arbitrary value assigned to the works.
@Carnbot said:
The thing about fraudsters is the better ones are really good at hiding who they really are. And the thing about NFT is that it doesn't even consider fraud as a possibility. Which suggests not a lot of familiarity with the art world honestly.
Well possibly until one of the following happens:
I think if anyone is willing to pony up thousands or millions for an NFT work of art, they’ve done their homework and are sufficiently informed.
Let the market decide what is or is not valuable.
That’s not a concern yet. And by the way, fraud and misrepresentation occur all the time in the corporeal world.
LOL
(No disrespect, but how the stupidly wealthy spend their money is probably more emotional than you realize.)
oh great
yeah i should start doing that as well....
The main thing the hyperinflation illustrates is how too few have too much money they know what to do with. The inequality index.
@cian
These are all good and valid points but I don’t understand why you use them to say that NFTs are nonsense. It’s probably just too early. We are at beginning of a new era of immaterial digital goods and our legal systems still need to develop to deal with that. We are kind of in the era of the wild west.
There had been a time when also the legal system in the physical world was not really well developed and artists had been without any legal means to protect their creations. It probably took decades if not centuries to develop that. New technologies suddenly forced the legal systems to adapt, for instance the invention of printing. Now it is the same.
These legal issues must be and will be solved. I‘m quite confident that blockchains will be regulated and then will also be legally trustworthy. For instance in Germany newer ID cards have a digital identity and are biometrically secured. That would allow to relate cryptographic keys to a person.
Modern blockchains with smart contracts have got a huge potential and will enable complete new business models. I‘m totally sure that no country on earth can afford to ignore this. But for now it’s wild west and I also wouldn’t recommend to spend some thousands for an NFT. But it is worth to understand this development and use what is already useful right now.
I'm about 250% more educated about Blockchain, Bitcoin, Ethereum and NFTs than I was before this thread started.
That makes me about 25% as educated as I'd like to be. Thanks to the people posting links to back up what they're saying (whether I agree with the linked articles or not). Kinda hope it keeps going, even though it's barely touched on the OP's actual question.
And hey ... I made $55 since yesterday on an investment in a bitcoin mining related company I learned about while looking into some of the linked articles. Nice!
That's the first time this forum has done anything but cost me money.
Yeah what I meant to say was that currently the NFTs on offer are nonsense. Somebody may work through the legal issues at some point, but none of the players seem very interested in doing that. Currently if you're buying an NFT it's very unlikely that you're buying ownership, unless there's a contract that goes along with it.
I mean there are ways to sell immaterial products today if you want to using the existing legal system. And to the degree there are issues, they're legal issues rather than technological ones.
uhm, hope not one of these where you send some money and the're like they rent you mining power on their hw, and you earn rewards whichnyou can re-invest to get more mining power and bigger profits.
They are ALL scam. They will keep your attention by really sending you first few small withdrawals, so you think it's legit, then you send more money there and you'll never get money back. All scams. No single one legit.
There'd be a lot fewer law suits if that was the case.
Nope, just stocks in a publicly traded company that produces mining related tech. Should be pretty solid, but is like all others, will go up and down. Only a small investment anyway.