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Do you jam?

Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike
in General App Discussion

How often do you jam, improvise, just play?
What is your jam app(s) of choice?
Do you use any references to jam from or over?

«1

Comments

  • michael_mmichael_m

    Yes, in multiple ways. I no longer have a group of friends who play various instruments, so I often play over a backing of some sort.

    I’ll improvise on piano or guitar solo, but will just play over anything to stretch my skills, especially anything that involves thinking on my feet to make things sound good.

  • wimwim
    edited March 2021

    Typical causal noodle is to build up four to eight bars starting with one of: drums, bass, or chords. I try to alternate what I start with. But then I add the rest and maybe a one or two other tracks such as a pad or some kind of rhythm riff. Then I add one more app, or plug in my guitar, and noodle until I start to bore myself.

    I don't often save any of it. That way I'm free to just create, without the paralysis of judging whether it's worthy of taking further or not.

    Oddly, I feel like I'm getting better all the time at laying down the backing tracks, but not so much with the jamming. :D

  • GovernorSilverGovernorSilver

    This book was influential for me:
    https://www.dacapopress.com/titles/derek-bailey/improvisation/9780306805288/

    It clarified some things that my mentors in university had tried to explain to me - there's a standard way to improvise, which is to operate within the boundaries of an idiom like jazz, bluegrass, flamenco, Indian classical, blues, etc. - then there is non-idiomatic ("free") improvisation.

    For a while I drove up to Baltimore once a week to a place where people were getting together for non-idiomatic improvisation. Anybody could choose a particular grouping of players, then give them some guidelines. For example, one person said "I want all the Theremin players in the room to play, and I want them to use only percussive sounds" . There were 3 or 4 of them that night. It was fun and interesting watching them struggle to not play any sustained tones, but they gamely did their best. One time somebody asked all the string players in the room, including me and my viola, to play, with only one rule - "you cannot play the same note as anyone else". That was surprisingly hard! Time and time again, I found my hands on my viola instinctively trying to play the same pitch as one of the violinists or the cellist and I consciously had to make myself play something different. What's interesting about non-idiomatic improv in a group setting is everyone just knows when it's time to stop. When I'm involved, it feels like a conversation starting to die down, then I start looking at everyone else, and they start looking at each other and me too. I think that's why of all the times I drove up to Baltimore for those sessions, I never saw an improvisation get stopped due to time running out or just going too long.

    I usually leave some room open to improv when using sequencers - whether the one on my Octatrack or sequenced synths. It's mostly just improvising filter settings and stuff like that.

    With the rock band, when the songwriter/bandleader plays a newly written song, I usually improvise to figure out parts that would go with the song. Usually with this band, about half of my parts end up settling into something composed that I play the same way ever time. The parts that remain improvised are the ones that the bandleader requests for ambience of some sort, whether it's the shrieks of scared little girls in the distance, the cries of seagulls, or sound effects making you think of water.

    I guess I improvise every day, even it's just a little noodling on the guitar or keys.

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @GovernorSilver said:
    This book was influential for me:
    https://www.dacapopress.com/titles/derek-bailey/improvisation/9780306805288/

    It clarified some things that my mentors in university had tried to explain to me - there's a standard way to improvise, which is to operate within the boundaries of an idiom like jazz, bluegrass, flamenco, Indian classical, blues, etc. - then there is non-idiomatic ("free") improvisation.

    For a while I drove up to Baltimore once a week to a place where people were getting together for non-idiomatic improvisation. Anybody could choose a particular grouping of players, then give them some guidelines. For example, one person said "I want all the Theremin players in the room to play, and I want them to use only percussive sounds" . There were 3 or 4 of them that night. It was fun and interesting watching them struggle to not play any sustained tones, but they gamely did their best. One time somebody asked all the string players in the room, including me and my viola, to play, with only one rule - "you cannot play the same note as anyone else". That was surprisingly hard! Time and time again, I found my hands on my viola instinctively trying to play the same pitch as one of the violinists or the cellist and I consciously had to make myself play something different. What's interesting about non-idiomatic improv in a group setting is everyone just knows when it's time to stop. When I'm involved, it feels like a conversation starting to die down, then I start looking at everyone else, and they start looking at each other and me too. I think that's why of all the times I drove up to Baltimore for those sessions, I never saw an improvisation get stopped due to time running out or just going too long.

    I usually leave some room open to improv when using sequencers - whether the one on my Octatrack or sequenced synths. It's mostly just improvising filter settings and stuff like that.

    With the rock band, when the songwriter/bandleader plays a newly written song, I usually improvise to figure out parts that would go with the song. Usually with this band, about half of my parts end up settling into something composed that I play the same way ever time. The parts that remain improvised are the ones that the bandleader requests for ambience of some sort, whether it's the shrieks of scared little girls in the distance, the cries of seagulls, or sound effects making you think of water.

    I guess I improvise every day, even it's just a little noodling on the guitar or keys.

    Yep, there are definitely frameworks that dictate common ways to improvise, and we often limit ourselves to the more common ones - rock, blues, jazz are the ones that I probably spend time focused on.

    However, sometimes I will just noodle and try to avoid following the standard frameworks. Sometimes it goes nowhere, but once in a while something really good comes from that approach.

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @michael_m said:
    Yes, in multiple ways. I no longer have a group of friends who play various instruments, so I often play over a backing of some sort.

    I’ll improvise on piano or guitar solo, but will just play over anything to stretch my skills, especially anything that involves thinking on my feet to make things sound good.

    That’s awesome! Did COVID stop your group?

  • johnfromberkeleyjohnfromberkeley
    edited March 2021

    @Stuntman_mike said:
    How often do you jam, improvise, just play?
    What is your jam app(s) of choice?
    Do you use any references to jam from or over?

    I love creating melodic stuff and locking shoom to the key and making noise all over it. LOLZ.

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @wim said:
    Typical causal noodle is to build up four to eight bars starting with one of: drums, bass, or chords. I try to alternate what I start with. But then I add the rest and maybe a one or two other tracks such as a pad or some kind of rhythm riff. Then I add one more app, or plug in my guitar, and noodle until I start to bore myself.

    I don't often save any of it. That way I'm free to just create, without the paralysis of judging whether it's worthy of taking further or not.

    Oddly, I feel like I'm getting better all the time at laying down the backing tracks, but not so much with the jamming. :D

    I love this, it’s inspiring: “...and noodle until I start to bore myself.” I feel like it’s after the boredom that our brains do the neuroplasticity thingy.

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @GovernorSilver said:
    This book was influential for me:
    https://www.dacapopress.com/titles/derek-bailey/improvisation/9780306805288/

    It clarified some things that my mentors in university had tried to explain to me - there's a standard way to improvise, which is to operate within the boundaries of an idiom like jazz, bluegrass, flamenco, Indian classical, blues, etc. - then there is non-idiomatic ("free") improvisation.

    For a while I drove up to Baltimore once a week to a place where people were getting together for non-idiomatic improvisation. Anybody could choose a particular grouping of players, then give them some guidelines. For example, one person said "I want all the Theremin players in the room to play, and I want them to use only percussive sounds" . There were 3 or 4 of them that night. It was fun and interesting watching them struggle to not play any sustained tones, but they gamely did their best. One time somebody asked all the string players in the room, including me and my viola, to play, with only one rule - "you cannot play the same note as anyone else". That was surprisingly hard! Time and time again, I found my hands on my viola instinctively trying to play the same pitch as one of the violinists or the cellist and I consciously had to make myself play something different. What's interesting about non-idiomatic improv in a group setting is everyone just knows when it's time to stop. When I'm involved, it feels like a conversation starting to die down, then I start looking at everyone else, and they start looking at each other and me too. I think that's why of all the times I drove up to Baltimore for those sessions, I never saw an improvisation get stopped due to time running out or just going too long.

    I usually leave some room open to improv when using sequencers - whether the one on my Octatrack or sequenced synths. It's mostly just improvising filter settings and stuff like that.

    With the rock band, when the songwriter/bandleader plays a newly written song, I usually improvise to figure out parts that would go with the song. Usually with this band, about half of my parts end up settling into something composed that I play the same way ever time. The parts that remain improvised are the ones that the bandleader requests for ambience of some sort, whether it's the shrieks of scared little girls in the distance, the cries of seagulls, or sound effects making you think of water.

    I guess I improvise every day, even it's just a little noodling on the guitar or keys.

    Thank you for sharing! Very innovative, interesting, and inspiring. Does your viola get time in your iPad compositions and if so, what do you use to record it?

  • wimwim

    @Stuntman_mike said:

    @wim said:
    Typical causal noodle is to build up four to eight bars starting with one of: drums, bass, or chords. I try to alternate what I start with. But then I add the rest and maybe a one or two other tracks such as a pad or some kind of rhythm riff. Then I add one more app, or plug in my guitar, and noodle until I start to bore myself.

    I don't often save any of it. That way I'm free to just create, without the paralysis of judging whether it's worthy of taking further or not.

    Oddly, I feel like I'm getting better all the time at laying down the backing tracks, but not so much with the jamming. :D

    I love this, it’s inspiring: “...and noodle until I start to bore myself.” I feel like it’s after the boredom that our brains do the neuroplasticity thingy.

    ooh. thanks for that. I learned a new word, and a good one too! Imma try to press through the boredom layer tonight and see if that gets me anywhere.

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @michael_m said:

    @GovernorSilver said:
    This book was influential for me:
    https://www.dacapopress.com/titles/derek-bailey/improvisation/9780306805288/

    It clarified some things that my mentors in university had tried to explain to me - there's a standard way to improvise, which is to operate within the boundaries of an idiom like jazz, bluegrass, flamenco, Indian classical, blues, etc. - then there is non-idiomatic ("free") improvisation.

    For a while I drove up to Baltimore once a week to a place where people were getting together for non-idiomatic improvisation. Anybody could choose a particular grouping of players, then give them some guidelines. For example, one person said "I want all the Theremin players in the room to play, and I want them to use only percussive sounds" . There were 3 or 4 of them that night. It was fun and interesting watching them struggle to not play any sustained tones, but they gamely did their best. One time somebody asked all the string players in the room, including me and my viola, to play, with only one rule - "you cannot play the same note as anyone else". That was surprisingly hard! Time and time again, I found my hands on my viola instinctively trying to play the same pitch as one of the violinists or the cellist and I consciously had to make myself play something different. What's interesting about non-idiomatic improv in a group setting is everyone just knows when it's time to stop. When I'm involved, it feels like a conversation starting to die down, then I start looking at everyone else, and they start looking at each other and me too. I think that's why of all the times I drove up to Baltimore for those sessions, I never saw an improvisation get stopped due to time running out or just going too long.

    I usually leave some room open to improv when using sequencers - whether the one on my Octatrack or sequenced synths. It's mostly just improvising filter settings and stuff like that.

    With the rock band, when the songwriter/bandleader plays a newly written song, I usually improvise to figure out parts that would go with the song. Usually with this band, about half of my parts end up settling into something composed that I play the same way ever time. The parts that remain improvised are the ones that the bandleader requests for ambience of some sort, whether it's the shrieks of scared little girls in the distance, the cries of seagulls, or sound effects making you think of water.

    I guess I improvise every day, even it's just a little noodling on the guitar or keys.

    Yep, there are definitely frameworks that dictate common ways to improvise, and we often limit ourselves to the more common ones - rock, blues, jazz are the ones that I probably spend time focused on.

    However, sometimes I will just noodle and try to avoid following the standard frameworks. Sometimes it goes nowhere, but once in a while something really good comes from that approach.

    I feel what you are saying... one thing I used to do is tune in to Music Choice (those high number channels on cable tv) and try to play with the music. Definitely a lot of noodling 😂 It is so awesome when I feel like I added something meaningful to a song or blended in especially considering I’m not a trained musician. Do you noodle with sound design as well?

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @Stuntman_mike said:

    @michael_m said:
    Yes, in multiple ways. I no longer have a group of friends who play various instruments, so I often play over a backing of some sort.

    I’ll improvise on piano or guitar solo, but will just play over anything to stretch my skills, especially anything that involves thinking on my feet to make things sound good.

    That’s awesome! Did COVID stop your group?

    No, moving to another part of the country did. Haven’t been able to find musicians here who have much interest in doing anything other than learning classic rock and country songs note for note and playing them the same way each time.

  • lsd87lsd87

    Just finished about 45 minutes of...AUM, Soft Drummer, Rozeta Bassline - Just E Octaves, Digital D1 and my Acoustic 00-15m. My back started to complain or I’d still be there!

    Nice thread!

  • GovernorSilverGovernorSilver
    edited March 2021

    @michael_m said:
    No, moving to another part of the country did. Haven’t been able to find musicians here who have much interest in doing anything other than learning classic rock and country songs note for note and playing them the same way each time.

    I also miss the communal experience of free improvisation in a group setting. I really learned a lot that I wouldn't have learned otherwise.

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @GovernorSilver said:

    @michael_m said:
    No, moving to another part of the country did. Haven’t been able to find musicians here who have much interest in doing anything other than learning classic rock and country songs note for note and playing them the same way each time.

    I also miss the communal experience of free improvisation in a group setting. I really learned a lot that I wouldn't have learned otherwise.

    Me too. We would often swap instruments too, and that led to some interesting outcomes.

  • GovernorSilverGovernorSilver

    @Stuntman_mike said:
    Thank you for sharing! Very innovative, interesting, and inspiring. Does your viola get time in your iPad compositions and if so, what do you use to record it?

    Thank you for reading. This is the only track I have at the moment that has both viola and iOS going on - in this case the Yellofier app.

    I've done more with Octatrack. This was inspired by Okkyung Lee. I improvised on both viola and Octatrack.

    One of the reasons I bought the Octatrack was I thought my Cocolase was broken and I couldn't find anyone other than Pete Blasser to fix it, and Pete himself was super busy being a new parent and moving to another city. When I finally saw Pete again, he figured out I was plugging into the wrong input. Doh! It has 2 inputs and 2 outputs, but doesn't really work like a normal stereo effect - whatever goes into the left side only goes out the left side, not the right. Same is true for the other side. This improv was with viola plugged into one input, and a Tocante Karper - another Pete Blasser invention, in this case a Karplus-Strong synth with solar panel - plugged into the other.

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @michael_m said:

    @Stuntman_mike said:

    @michael_m said:
    Yes, in multiple ways. I no longer have a group of friends who play various instruments, so I often play over a backing of some sort.

    I’ll improvise on piano or guitar solo, but will just play over anything to stretch my skills, especially anything that involves thinking on my feet to make things sound good.

    That’s awesome! Did COVID stop your group?

    No, moving to another part of the country did. Haven’t been able to find musicians here who have much interest in doing anything other than learning classic rock and country songs note for note and playing them the same way each time.

    Oh wow, that’s no fun. I pray you find your tribe soon! Perhaps jamming with your old group via Zoom? Not the same I know, but sounds like you had a good thing going before. Are you in Tennessee?

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @lsd87 said:
    Just finished about 45 minutes of...AUM, Soft Drummer, Rozeta Bassline - Just E Octaves, Digital D1 and my Acoustic 00-15m. My back started to complain or I’d still be there!

    Nice thread!

    Very nice! Rest well sir!

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @GovernorSilver said:

    @Stuntman_mike said:
    Thank you for sharing! Very innovative, interesting, and inspiring. Does your viola get time in your iPad compositions and if so, what do you use to record it?

    Thank you for reading. This is the only track I have at the moment that has both viola and iOS going on - in this case the Yellofier app.

    I've done more with Octatrack. This was inspired by Okkyung Lee. I improvised on both viola and Octatrack.

    One of the reasons I bought the Octatrack was I thought my Cocolase was broken and I couldn't find anyone other than Pete Blasser to fix it, and Pete himself was super busy being a new parent and moving to another city. When I finally saw Pete again, he figured out I was plugging into the wrong input. Doh! It has 2 inputs and 2 outputs, but doesn't really work like a normal stereo effect - whatever goes into the left side only goes out the left side, not the right. Same is true for the other side. This improv was with viola plugged into one input, and a Tocante Karper - another Pete Blasser invention, in this case a Karplus-Strong synth with solar panel - plugged into the other.

    So cool! You have opened my world to these beautiful devices:


    How did you find them?

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @GovernorSilver said:

    @michael_m said:
    No, moving to another part of the country did. Haven’t been able to find musicians here who have much interest in doing anything other than learning classic rock and country songs note for note and playing them the same way each time.

    I also miss the communal experience of free improvisation in a group setting. I really learned a lot that I wouldn't have learned otherwise.

    Maybe we can create an online jam session group from this thread...

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @michael_m said:

    @GovernorSilver said:

    @michael_m said:
    No, moving to another part of the country did. Haven’t been able to find musicians here who have much interest in doing anything other than learning classic rock and country songs note for note and playing them the same way each time.

    I also miss the communal experience of free improvisation in a group setting. I really learned a lot that I wouldn't have learned otherwise.

    Me too. We would often swap instruments too, and that led to some interesting outcomes.

    Swapping instruments, brilliant! The “No Comfort Zone”... learning on the fly. Was this like drummer: “Here, play this saxophone?”

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    @johnfromberkeley, I read “shroom”... silly me.

    I improvise about ten minutes a day. Just long enough to get down a track. I worry less and less that it sounds like shit. I have gained confidence I can turn around most anything in the choice of instruments, a little midi editing and the mix.

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike
    edited March 2021

    @LinearLineman said:
    @johnfromberkeley, I read “shroom”... silly me.

    I improvise about ten minutes a day. Just long enough to get down a track. I worry less and less that it sounds like shit. I have gained confidence I can turn around most anything in the choice of instruments, a little midi editing and the mix.

    Spoken like a true master... Is there a “go to” method you use: noodling, playing over a drum track, or some other method?

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    @Stuntman_mike, I rely on fifty years of improvisation experience on tunes and free improv which was formulated and exacerbated by about 15 years of study with the great, late, improviser, Connie Crothers. I can’t say it’s noodling, exactly, but it’s probably on the spectrum. The problem with playing so little is that my chops ain’t what they used to be. So, when I need something extra I have to invoke the dark gods of Bird and pray for divine help.

  • GovernorSilverGovernorSilver

    @Stuntman_mike said:
    So cool! You have opened my world to these beautiful devices:


    How did you find them?

    I found them through the DC noise/experimental music scene. The first person I talked to about Pete Blasser/Ciat Lonbarde was also the first person I befriended in this scene after I moved here. One night I saw him play a show with a couple of cool looking wooden electronic machines. He told me Pete Blasser built them and you can also buy his instruments as kits if you're handy at soldering. Soon after, I saw Ciat Lonbarde devices in the hands of other artists local to DC and Baltimore. Pete lived in Baltimore at the time.

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @Stuntman_mike said:

    @michael_m said:

    @Stuntman_mike said:

    @michael_m said:
    Yes, in multiple ways. I no longer have a group of friends who play various instruments, so I often play over a backing of some sort.

    I’ll improvise on piano or guitar solo, but will just play over anything to stretch my skills, especially anything that involves thinking on my feet to make things sound good.

    That’s awesome! Did COVID stop your group?

    No, moving to another part of the country did. Haven’t been able to find musicians here who have much interest in doing anything other than learning classic rock and country songs note for note and playing them the same way each time.

    Oh wow, that’s no fun. I pray you find your tribe soon! Perhaps jamming with your old group via Zoom? Not the same I know, but sounds like you had a good thing going before. Are you in Tennessee?

    They’re spread around the world now, so scheduling is hard (Sweden, UK, Peru and Australia).

    I’m in SC, but TN isn’t too far from me.

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @LinearLineman said:
    @Stuntman_mike, I rely on fifty years of improvisation experience on tunes and free improv which was formulated and exacerbated by about 15 years of study with the great, late, improviser, Connie Crothers. I can’t say it’s noodling, exactly, but it’s probably on the spectrum. The problem with playing so little is that my chops ain’t what they used to be. So, when I need something extra I have to invoke the dark gods of Bird and pray for divine help.

    Thank you for sharing. I went to check out Ms. Crothers’ music, I can hear her influence in your music. I’m sorry for you loss. I love your music sir!

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @GovernorSilver said:

    @Stuntman_mike said:
    So cool! You have opened my world to these beautiful devices:


    How did you find them?

    I found them through the DC noise/experimental music scene. The first person I talked to about Pete Blasser/Ciat Lonbarde was also the first person I befriended in this scene after I moved here. One night I saw him play a show with a couple of cool looking wooden electronic machines. He told me Pete Blasser built them and you can also buy his instruments as kits if you're handy at soldering. Soon after, I saw Ciat Lonbarde devices in the hands of other artists local to DC and Baltimore. Pete lived in Baltimore at the time.

    Very cool! Thank you for opening my mind to a new style of music and cool gear!

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman
    edited March 2021

    @Stuntman_mike. I can’t say enough good things about Connie as a person and her devotion to music and improvisation. She was the most affirming person and teacher I have ever met. She was just getting the recognition she deserved, in her seventies... teaching at Juilliard.... gigs, lines of students, when she stepped off the planet... her way of putting it. She appreciated life for “the mix that it is”.

    She began New Artists Records with Max Roach back in the seventies. Only improvised music allowed. All her albums are there with demo cuts. Mine, too. Including two iOS albums. And thanks for the love!

    https://www.newartistsrecords.com/

  • Stuntman_mikeStuntman_mike

    @LinearLineman said:
    @Stuntman_mike. I can’t say enough good things about Connie as a person and her devotion to music and improvisation. She was the most affirming person and teacher I have ever met. She was just getting the recognition she deserved, in her seventies... teaching at Juilliard.... gigs, lines of students, when she stepped off the planet... her way of putting it. She appreciated life for “the mix that it is”.

    She began New Artists Records with Max Roach back in the seventies. Only improvised music allowed. All her albums are there with demo cuts. Mine, too. Including two iOS albums. And thanks for the love!

    https://www.newartistsrecords.com/

    Awesome! Thank you, I’m going to fall down the rabbit hole and learn more...

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman
    edited March 2021

    @Stuntman_mike,
    Lennie Tristano is the seminal influence for guys like Lee Konitz, Lennie Popkin, Kazzrie Jaxsen, Connie and many others. You need to understand his influence on free improvisation to get the drift.

    I wrote three essays for the forum three years ago based on Connie’s teaching. This is the exercise she taught me that opened the door...

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/27012/how-to-improve-your-keyboard-improvising-100-in-three-weeks

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