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Beatcutter: Crowdsourcing the learning curve

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Comments

  • ToastedghostToastedghost

    @Obo said:

    @Toastedghost said:

    @echoopera said:

    @celtic_elk said:
    OK, here’s an example of something I’ve been trying with BeatCutter. This is my first time doing a video recording with AUM, or sharing anything I’ve made, actually, so please be gentle. I took a relatively boring loop I’d built some time ago with a few elements, piped all the channels into BeatCutter on a separate track, and added some compression and echo.

    This was made by tweaking individual bus controls, rather than the template; note that the sequencer is on Random, which reduces the predictability of the output given a static input.

    This sounds really great! Nice work!

    I agree and for your first time presenting work excellent. It is only by feeling vunerable that we grow. I look forward to you present some of your found knowledge in the future.

    Well said @Toastedghost and well done @celtic_elk. You know you’ve arrived when your track features echo and you get the nod from @echoopera!

    TG - can’t help but think that you and I throwing up a link to everything we create played no small role in this moment of growth! I can picture it now “hell, now I can do better than that! Hell, I can do better than that too!” 🤣😂🤣 (mostly kidding!)

    Hey am with you on that. I have produced another batch (probably 5 in total) but feel slightly greedy as though I am hogging the limelight slightly, but what I would hate to think is that people pick up “Beatcutter” and say “humph its just a glitch and squeak maker”, when they could not be further from the truth. Though I too nearly did not buy for the same reason, “Beatcutter”, gives the impression it slices beats at the transients, like “Egoist” or “Segments” then reconstructs them. I have both apps (and love them both) but this is far more, it remoulds sounds in inconcievable manners and opens gateways to new sonic possibilities. ( Sounds like am a hippy promo artist)

    Lets keep creating new waves!

  • ToastedghostToastedghost

    Wicked tips and tracks from @Gavinski!
    You can also use Enso to capture snippets and then reconstruct in say “JammPro”

  • ToastedghostToastedghost

    Just one sample made this track. Woot to add flavour, Slo Machine and Fiterstation added for spice.

    Is there an easier way to through up sample examples other tahn Souncloud?

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @Toastedghost said:
    Wicked tips and tracks from @Gavinski!
    You can also use Enso to capture snippets and then reconstruct in say “JammPro”

    That sounds like a great idea. Jamm Pro is one of those apps I still haven't had time to explore at all in terms of putting my own stuff into it, but I suspect if I do it might be a gamechanger app for me

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @Toastedghost said:
    Just one sample made this track. Woot to add flavour, Slo Machine and Fiterstation added for spice.

    Is there an easier way to through up sample examples other tahn Souncloud?

    Unlisted youtube video? Not sure which is less hassle

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    @Gavinski said:
    Tip 1:

    Very cool! A side effect of that tip: if you’re activating the triggers with the sequencer instead of listening to audio, the sequencer step length is also controlling the sample length (unless you override it manually), so going from a short step length to a long one quickly will lead to a bunch of short samples being played at long intervals, until the cell population turns over at the new step speed. (This might be exactly what you want, in some cases!)

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    @Gavinski said:
    Tip 2:

    Man, I always forget that you can set Gauss to create rhythmic triggers like that without changing the playback speed. Too many tools and not enough time spent sussing them out. 😝

    These are great tips, @Gavinski - keep ‘em coming!

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    @celtic_elk said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Tip 1:

    Very cool! A side effect of that tip: if you’re activating the triggers with the sequencer instead of listening to audio, the sequencer step length is also controlling the sample length (unless you override it manually), so going from a short step length to a long one quickly will lead to a bunch of short samples being played at long intervals, until the cell population turns over at the new step speed. (This might be exactly what you want, in some cases!)

    Addendum: you can smooth out that side-effect by setting Change to a higher value, so that the step length is actually passing through intermediate values (and triggering samples at those lengths) on its way from fast to slow. You could also automate the step length, of course, and make all of this happen without your intervention.

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    Some thoughts I've been having about the trigger/sequencer interaction:

    The tendency (OK, my tendency) is to think of the triggers as a binary: either you're triggering using an input sound or triggering with the sequencer. In either case, recording starts when the trigger reaches its threshold signal (the top of the audio meter next to the Sensitive slider) and stops when the signal falls below threshold. If the trigger's Sequence parameter is set at 100%, the trigger receives a threshold-level signal from the sequencer when the sequencer is on the corresponding-numbered step, and ceases to receive signal when the sequencer moves to another step. If the Length parameter is off, the length of the sequencer-triggered recording corresponds to the length of time that the trigger input is at the threshold; as described above for the sequencer, that's one step length (one beat by default, but faster or slower if you've messed with the Step parameter in the sequencer).

    Here's the intricate part: in the same way that you can scale the audio input to the trigger using the Sensitive slider, you can scale the sequencer's contribution using the Sequence slider. If Sequence is set at 100%, the sequencer signal reaches the threshold for triggering, and the setting of the Sensitive slider is irrelevant. At Sequence levels under 100%, though, you can get some interesting interactions with the audio triggering. If, for example, you have an audio signal that occasionally reaches the threshold level, but which you'd like to trigger more often, you can "boost" the trigger signal with the Sequence slider, which will add its percentage value to the current audio level when it fires. Similarly, if you are triggering using a strong transient like a kick drum, but would like the sample to last longer (but don't want to manually set the Length parameter), you can use the Sequence parameter to keep the signal at threshold for a longer time; basically, it moves the peak up by X%, and so the signal has to decrease in volume enough to overcome this boost before it drops below threshold.

    In theory, you could achieve both of these effects by dialing in the Sensitive parameter more carefully.* The reason that you might want to use a Sensitive/Sequence combination is that the effect only happens when the sequencer is on the corresponding step, rather than on every trigger activation. This can introduce an interesting chance element to your sampling pool, especially if the triggering audio is not strongly periodic or if the sequencer is set to Random (or both).

    And yes, I probably spend too much time thinking about this stuff.

    *Side note: the relationship between threshold time and recording length is a good thing to keep in mind generally when you're setting trigger thresholds. You can introduce some variation into your sample pool by finding the Sensitive level that reaches threshold, and then setting a couple of other triggers to the same audio source but with a slightly (or dramatically!) higher Sensitive value; the triggers will all fire at the same time, but they'll have different recording lengths.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @celtic_elk said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Tip 1:

    Very cool! A side effect of that tip: if you’re activating the triggers with the sequencer instead of listening to audio, the sequencer step length is also controlling the sample length (unless you override it manually), so going from a short step length to a long one quickly will lead to a bunch of short samples being played at long intervals, until the cell population turns over at the new step speed. (This might be exactly what you want, in some cases!)

    Very good observation. Man. I never fail to be impressed by your level of insight into this app!

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @celtic_elk said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Tip 2:

    Man, I always forget that you can set Gauss to create rhythmic triggers like that without changing the playback speed. Too many tools and not enough time spent sussing them out. 😝

    These are great tips, @Gavinski - keep ‘em coming!

    Gotta love the gauss

    @celtic_elk said:

    @celtic_elk said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Tip 1:

    Very cool! A side effect of that tip: if you’re activating the triggers with the sequencer instead of listening to audio, the sequencer step length is also controlling the sample length (unless you override it manually), so going from a short step length to a long one quickly will lead to a bunch of short samples being played at long intervals, until the cell population turns over at the new step speed. (This might be exactly what you want, in some cases!)

    Addendum: you can smooth out that side-effect by setting Change to a higher value, so that the step length is actually passing through intermediate values (and triggering samples at those lengths) on its way from fast to slow. You could also automate the step length, of course, and make all of this happen without your intervention.

    Jeez yeah, again, mind blowing all the possibilities this thing has

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @celtic_elk said:
    Some thoughts I've been having about the trigger/sequencer interaction:

    The tendency (OK, my tendency) is to think of the triggers as a binary: either you're triggering using an input sound or triggering with the sequencer. In either case, recording starts when the trigger reaches its threshold signal (the top of the audio meter next to the Sensitive slider) and stops when the signal falls below threshold. If the trigger's Sequence parameter is set at 100%, the trigger receives a threshold-level signal from the sequencer when the sequencer is on the corresponding-numbered step, and ceases to receive signal when the sequencer moves to another step. If the Length parameter is off, the length of the sequencer-triggered recording corresponds to the length of time that the trigger input is at the threshold; as described above for the sequencer, that's one step length (one beat by default, but faster or slower if you've messed with the Step parameter in the sequencer).

    Here's the intricate part: in the same way that you can scale the audio input to the trigger using the Sensitive slider, you can scale the sequencer's contribution using the Sequence slider. If Sequence is set at 100%, the sequencer signal reaches the threshold for triggering, and the setting of the Sensitive slider is irrelevant. At Sequence levels under 100%, though, you can get some interesting interactions with the audio triggering. If, for example, you have an audio signal that occasionally reaches the threshold level, but which you'd like to trigger more often, you can "boost" the trigger signal with the Sequence slider, which will add its percentage value to the current audio level when it fires. Similarly, if you are triggering using a strong transient like a kick drum, but would like the sample to last longer (but don't want to manually set the Length parameter), you can use the Sequence parameter to keep the signal at threshold for a longer time; basically, it moves the peak up by X%, and so the signal has to decrease in volume enough to overcome this boost before it drops below threshold.

    In theory, you could achieve both of these effects by dialing in the Sensitive parameter more carefully.* The reason that you might want to use a Sensitive/Sequence combination is that the effect only happens when the sequencer is on the corresponding step, rather than on every trigger activation. This can introduce an interesting chance element to your sampling pool, especially if the triggering audio is not strongly periodic or if the sequencer is set to Random (or both).

    And yes, I probably spend too much time thinking about this stuff.

    *Side note: the relationship between threshold time and recording length is a good thing to keep in mind generally when you're setting trigger thresholds. You can introduce some variation into your sample pool by finding the Sensitive level that reaches threshold, and then setting a couple of other triggers to the same audio source but with a slightly (or dramatically!) higher Sensitive value; the triggers will all fire at the same time, but they'll have different recording lengths.

    This one I will have to save til tomorrow to read. It’s 1am here and I have been spending the last few hours working on ideas for my next vid, no way I’m gonna take all this in right now, but looks well worth a few rereadings, brilliant stuff man

  • GavinskiGavinski

    And yes, you definitely spend too much time thinking about this stuff @celtic_elk
    What on earth did you keep yourself busy with before BeatCutter came along 😂?

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    @Gavinski said:
    And yes, you definitely spend too much time thinking about this stuff @celtic_elk
    What on earth did you keep yourself busy with before BeatCutter came along 😂?

    I read other people's PhD dissertations for fun. That probably tells you everything you need to know about me. :D

    Get some sleep, man. My ramblings will be just as incoherent in the morning. ;)

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    Here’s one with a hip-hop feel: a simple bass-and-drums loop given an abstract DJ as an accompanist. The drum inputs into BeatCutter were filtered to remove the kick, and then the output was sidechained to the drums to keep the bassier elements out of the way of the kick in the mix; you can hear the difference at the end, when I stop the loop (and therefore the sidechaining) while BeatCutter is still emptying its remaining cells. The static nature of the inputs leads to a recurring rhythmic motif in the BeatCutter output; switching the sequencer from Forward to Random deconstructs this motif in the last section.

  • audiblevideoaudiblevideo

    BeatCutter for background atmospherics

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @celtic_elk said:
    Here’s one with a hip-hop feel: a simple bass-and-drums loop given an abstract DJ as an accompanist. The drum inputs into BeatCutter were filtered to remove the kick, and then the output was sidechained to the drums to keep the bassier elements out of the way of the kick in the mix; you can hear the difference at the end, when I stop the loop (and therefore the sidechaining) while BeatCutter is still emptying its remaining cells. The static nature of the inputs leads to a recurring rhythmic motif in the BeatCutter output; switching the sequencer from Forward to Random deconstructs this motif in the last section.

    That sounded great while the loop and sidechaning were going. Definitely a concept I have to explore here, it's nice to be able to get something a bit more rhythmical and conventional out of the madness

  • TheSoundKidTheSoundKid
    edited April 2021

    I have other apps (Synth/sound/fieldScapers) and it’s all simply brilliant and stunningly creative ones. But this one has Very deep learning curve and much complicated UI/UX. Mostly it creates noises. Spending too much of time for learning this app doesn’t seem to be useful as the sole purpose of this app is finding new creative rhythms. But alternatives are there for such purposes like Granular / reverse playback apps. Sector is one of the app currently using for random slicing. I hope the genius developers should do something on fine tuning and fixing the cluttering UI/UX. However, I will try it with solo (instrument) tracks.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @TheSoundKid said:
    I have other apps (Synth/sound/fieldScapers) and it’s all simply brilliant and stunningly creative ones. But this one has Very deep learning curve and much complicated UI/UX. Mostly it creates noises. Spending too much of time for learning this app doesn’t seem to be useful as the sole purpose of this app is finding new creative rhythms. But alternatives are there for such purposes like Granular / reverse playback apps. I hope the genius developers should do something on fine tuning and fixing the cluttering UI/UX. However, I will try it with solo (instrument) tracks.

    I'm starting to feel that the purpose of this app is more to give you a mental workout. You can definitely do more rhythmic stuff in it but a lot of that depends on your understanding of the trigger and sequencer sections as Celtic Elk has been highlighting.

    For sure though, the lack of a manual that is a) pitched at a level that is accessible and b) has pictures that make things clearer without needing to cross reference the app every time you read a sentence are barriers to entry. I also hope Igor improves on these in future. He needs someone who really understands his apps to help him write a clear manual. I'd suggest the Elk for the job. Igor is far better at getting his ideas than explaining them.

    I think as we all experiment and learn from each other, things will get easier over time.

  • TheSoundKidTheSoundKid

    @Gavinski said:

    @TheSoundKid said:
    I have other apps (Synth/sound/fieldScapers) and it’s all simply brilliant and stunningly creative ones. But this one has Very deep learning curve and much complicated UI/UX. Mostly it creates noises. Spending too much of time for learning this app doesn’t seem to be useful as the sole purpose of this app is finding new creative rhythms. But alternatives are there for such purposes like Granular / reverse playback apps. I hope the genius developers should do something on fine tuning and fixing the cluttering UI/UX. However, I will try it with solo (instrument) tracks.

    I'm starting to feel that the purpose of this app is more to give you a mental workout. You can definitely do more rhythmic stuff in it but a lot of that depends on your understanding of the trigger and sequencer sections as Celtic Elk has been highlighting.

    For sure though, the lack of a manual that is a) pitched at a level that is accessible and b) has pictures that make things clearer without needing to cross reference the app every time you read a sentence are barriers to entry. I also hope Igor improves on these in future. He needs someone who really understands his apps to help him write a clear manual. I'd suggest the Elk for the job. Igor is far better at getting his ideas than explaining them.

    I think as we all experiment and learn from each other, things will get easier over time.

    Absolutely right. I think at first he should hire talented UI/UX designers for all his apps. A creative and feature rich app should Also be designed as “Learnable”

  • GavinskiGavinski

    Ok, so here is a huge step forwards for me in actually being able to control this thing. It is masterable. So I invite anyone who is interested in cracking the Beatcutter code to tell me what the method is.

  • zilld2017zilld2017

    Anyone using this with Drambo standalone and interested in sharing the experience? Lack of audio FX multi out support a limitation? Thanks.

  • GavinskiGavinski


    Really enjoying single input instances of this. Please note that this and all other similar posts are in no way supposed to be tracks, lol. Just indicators of the kinds of sounds and approaches possible

  • celtic_elkceltic_elk

    @Gavinski said:


    Really enjoying single input instances of this. Please note that this and all other similar posts are in no way supposed to be tracks, lol. Just indicators of the kinds of sounds and approaches possible

    Yeah, the evil whales are awesome. :smile:

    I'll have an answer to your "tame BeatCutter!" challenge this afternoon (my time); I thought other people might like the opportunity to consider the question before I started spouting off.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    Yeah - I knew you would know and I thought, correctly as it turns out, that you might be gracious enough to give others a chance - not sure anyone is taking the bait though 😜

  • ToastedghostToastedghost

    @Gavinski said:


    Really enjoying single input instances of this. Please note that this and all other similar posts are in no way supposed to be tracks, lol. Just indicators of the kinds of sounds and approaches possible

    Was that just one instance? Amazing. Love some of the elongated bass drones you can get from this beast, anyone tried sampling into Audiolayer? Could be interesting.

  • ToastedghostToastedghost

    @celtic_elk said:

    @Gavinski said:


    Really enjoying single input instances of this. Please note that this and all other similar posts are in no way supposed to be tracks, lol. Just indicators of the kinds of sounds and approaches possible

    Yeah, the evil whales are awesome. :smile:

    I'll have an answer to your "tame BeatCutter!" challenge this afternoon (my time); I thought other people might like the opportunity to consider the question before I started spouting off.

    I cannot wait to hear how you unravel this machine.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    Yeah one instance, but fed into all 8 inputs of course, this is my current fave way of working with Beatcutter

    @Toastedghost said:

    @Gavinski said:


    Really enjoying single input instances of this. Please note that this and all other similar posts are in no way supposed to be tracks, lol. Just indicators of the kinds of sounds and approaches possible

    Was that just one instance? Amazing. Love some of the elongated bass drones you can get from this beast, anyone tried sampling into Audiolayer? Could be interesting.

  • GavinskiGavinski


    Same audio source as the evil whales, different processing, Eventide undulator rhythmizing things

  • ToastedghostToastedghost

    Just thinking it would be great if we could copy and paste into triggers and other buses once we have them set to our liking.

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