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Sequencers in 2021

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Comments

  • @MisplacedDevelopment said:

    @syrupcore said:

    @MisplacedDevelopment said:
    The most popular sequencer that I do not have yet is Quantum. That is next on my shopping list and perhaps is the reason I started this thread. Reading the manual, it seems to do pretty much everything and I do not mind the interface (I also have Thesys and don’t mind that interface so the bar is fairly low!).

    The thing to grok about Quantum vs most other step sequencers is that in Q, the step is the most powerful/important unit, not the sequence. If you go for it, start to learn it with very short sequences (say 3-6 steps).

    Could not help myself and got it last night. Had a very quick play before sleep and I had instant problems with getting MIDI to sound from its own MIDI port. Weirdly I could see the note on/offs coming out but they weren't sounding, I think they were just instant on/off messages. Finally pointed it at AUM and that fixed the problem phew.

    First impressions is that it is very powerful. I do like the aspect of it that you call out here, that the step is the most important unit. This is per-step, per-lane as well which is important to me as it means I can adjust velocity for only that lane/step combo and means I can sequence drum velocities separately from synth lanes which was one of my main problems with SPA. I think I even saw that it has per-note modifiers for chords within a step.

    There are some interesting step articulations which are more musically useful than Thesys' performance options. Happily surprised to see mordants, trills and appoggiatura in there. Makes me think this was written to sequence lots of styles of music.

    Ratcheting was also available, though I could not see the nice SPA acceleration/velocity curve ratcheting as an option. Given that you can change the length of each step, I suspect it might be possible to approximate this more advanced type of ratcheting by manually changing the step lengths and velocities.

    Lots to dig in to this evening, including the MIDI-in recording option which for me was one of Thesys' USPs.

    Sounds like a good start! Couple more Quantum bits to explore:

    1. Value only sequences provide a way to use one sequence (aka rack) to send values to another sequence. It will not send MIDI out; instead, you can use to adjust the pitch values of another sequencer (aka transpose). It can be set to a much slower tempo and include all the other fun stuff like probability, skip, ratchets, etc.
    2. Digging into the power of sequence "parts" (the [ABCD] buttons): https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/21646/quantum-parts-as-fugue-machine-mini-tut
    3. While searching for that parts tutorial above, I came across this old post. Lovely example of the power of very short sequences on a sequencer which provides for real time manipulation. The video is hardware-based but it can all be done in Quantum. https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/22710/keeping-it-simple-with-step-sequencers
  • @syrupcore said:

    @MisplacedDevelopment said:

    @syrupcore said:

    @MisplacedDevelopment said:
    The most popular sequencer that I do not have yet is Quantum. That is next on my shopping list and perhaps is the reason I started this thread. Reading the manual, it seems to do pretty much everything and I do not mind the interface (I also have Thesys and don’t mind that interface so the bar is fairly low!).

    The thing to grok about Quantum vs most other step sequencers is that in Q, the step is the most powerful/important unit, not the sequence. If you go for it, start to learn it with very short sequences (say 3-6 steps).

    Could not help myself and got it last night. Had a very quick play before sleep and I had instant problems with getting MIDI to sound from its own MIDI port. Weirdly I could see the note on/offs coming out but they weren't sounding, I think they were just instant on/off messages. Finally pointed it at AUM and that fixed the problem phew.

    First impressions is that it is very powerful. I do like the aspect of it that you call out here, that the step is the most important unit. This is per-step, per-lane as well which is important to me as it means I can adjust velocity for only that lane/step combo and means I can sequence drum velocities separately from synth lanes which was one of my main problems with SPA. I think I even saw that it has per-note modifiers for chords within a step.

    There are some interesting step articulations which are more musically useful than Thesys' performance options. Happily surprised to see mordants, trills and appoggiatura in there. Makes me think this was written to sequence lots of styles of music.

    Ratcheting was also available, though I could not see the nice SPA acceleration/velocity curve ratcheting as an option. Given that you can change the length of each step, I suspect it might be possible to approximate this more advanced type of ratcheting by manually changing the step lengths and velocities.

    Lots to dig in to this evening, including the MIDI-in recording option which for me was one of Thesys' USPs.

    Sounds like a good start! Couple more Quantum bits to explore:

    1. Value only sequences provide a way to use one sequence (aka rack) to send values to another sequence. It will not send MIDI out; instead, you can use to adjust the pitch values of another sequencer (aka transpose). It can be set to a much slower tempo and include all the other fun stuff like probability, skip, ratchets, etc.
    2. Digging into the power of sequence "parts" (the [ABCD] buttons): https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/21646/quantum-parts-as-fugue-machine-mini-tut
    3. While searching for that parts tutorial above, I came across this old post. Lovely example of the power of very short sequences on a sequencer which provides for real time manipulation. The video is hardware-based but it can all be done in Quantum. https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/22710/keeping-it-simple-with-step-sequencers

    Lovely stuff, thanks for those links! I'll test it later but I was wondering whether the value only sequences can be driven using live input, ala SPA? It sounds like I can sequence relative pitch values to create an arp pattern but would I be able to drive this using MIDI-in rather than defining fixed lane of trigger notes, and without having to record the notes that I'm sending in?

  • @MisplacedDevelopment : there is. 'Midi input' toggled on, Devices/Midi 'Input' 'Active' On, 'Ignore Transpose' Off, & on the rack, 'Tr'(anspose) doubletap: Transpose Inputs, 'Song' or any of the seq S1-6. You can define the MIDI channel on the value rack for sending, and even direct it at multiple seq's (the seq rack's channel not having necessarily to be the same).

  • @ccs2 Thanks, that has set me off in the right direction. I managed to get the values lane set up over lunch but I could not get it to react to keyboard input. I know Quantum can see the AUM keyboard as I am able to record into other lanes and can hear it when setting MIDI thru on.

    I think I’m missing a step after setting up the values lane. I was expecting to enable MIDI in, hit play, and then press a key on the keyboard and hear the incoming note transposed by the step. Do I need an additional lane whose Tr is controlled by the S1 values lane and then record into that lane?

    Here is my setup:



  • edited April 2021

    @MisplacedDevelopment : there's one way to make it happen - with audiobus

    however, a step value rack won't send notes out, a normal seqence rack is needed. That can be transposed by a value rack or from outside (f.e. Aum keyboard -> 'audiobus 3 virtual'), and a global midi rack will be transposed by 'Song' = midi input and additionally by a value rack sequence (which of course can be transposed by Song too) ;)
    Running Quantum inside AB3 is really the most convenient way, state saving, start/stop etc.

  • edited April 2021

    @ccs2 said:
    @MisplacedDevelopment : there's one way to make it happen - with audiobus

    however, a step value rack won't send notes out, a normal seqence rack is needed. That can be transposed by a value rack or from outside (f.e. Aum keyboard -> 'audiobus 3 virtual'), and a global midi rack will be transposed by 'Song' = midi input and additionally by a value rack sequence (which of course can be transposed by Song too) ;)
    Running Quantum inside AB3 is really the most convenient way, state saving, start/stop etc

    @ccs2 Thanks, that AB configuration worked! I think I had everything wired up correctly before but for whatever reason Quantum was not honouring the ignore transpose option for a non-AudioBus input. The global transpose simply did not change even though it registered input when routing MIDI in either from AUM or my NanoKey:

    With your AB setup then I immediately saw this value react to incoming MIDI and so changing the second lane to Transpose based on Song + S1 meant that I was able to control the root note as I wanted to.

    Thanks for your help. Now I’m going to try and get it to arp a chord...

  • Am I right in assuming Quantum is not AUv3?

  • @drcongo said:
    Am I right in assuming Quantum is not AUv3?

    Yes

  • edited April 2021

    More chance to play last night, the per-step options available make this a very powerful drum sequencer. It has the usual ratchets but also MIDI FX such as the MIDI Echo found in the AU app of the same name.

    You can even create chord steps for a single drum step and then ‘strum’ the drum chord with as many notes as you like. The strum can be performed over a fixed number of milliseconds or some tempo division. Even better, each hit in the strum can have its own velocity so you can create ramped rolls:

    Edit: thinking about it some more, you may be able to use chords to create a mini-step sequencer within a step by setting velocities to zero. More experimentation later :)

  • I decided to try my luck with hardware. I bought an Arturia Beatstep Pro, will be delivered tomorrow. I want some knobs and buttons.

  • @krassmann said:
    I decided to try my luck with hardware. I bought an Arturia Beatstep Pro, will be delivered tomorrow. I want some knobs and buttons.

    This one has been tempting me for some time. It's only a tad expensive in my currency :lol:
    Maybe i'll save some cash and get it later this year

  • @krassmann said:
    I decided to try my luck with hardware. I bought an Arturia Beatstep Pro, will be delivered tomorrow. I want some knobs and buttons.

    Are you gonna you use the Beatstep just for drums?.

  • I quite like Rubycon. It's a lot of fun.

  • @MisplacedDevelopment said:
    I have been getting in to step sequencing recently after being drawn in by GR-16 and enjoying myself, despite not being someone who is particularly in to electronic music. This journey has led me to investigating the various sequencers available.

    I have bought most of the sequencers that people have mentioned as being worth checking out and they all offer a few things that set them apart but many are pre-Drambo and so may have been replaced by the functionality in there. I have Drambo and can see it is a beast but have not set time aside to understand it yet so I am hoping to find out from someone experienced with the options on offer whether I should just invest time in learning Drambo rather than buying more sequencers that do certain things particularly well.

    The most popular sequencer that I do not have yet is Quantum. That is next on my shopping list and perhaps is the reason I started this thread. Reading the manual, it seems to do pretty much everything and I do not mind the interface (I also have Thesys and don’t mind that interface so the bar is fairly low!).

    Is there anything that Drambo particularly struggles with versus what is available? I’m sure it can do a lot of the basic sequencing tasks in its sleep but could I reproduce the cool ratcheting options in SPA, for example?

    1st CHOICE: GENOME.....till my fingers are cold and dead.

    I got this first before any other apps were out that sequenced and still love it.

    MODSTEP as well to play samples.

  • @RUST( i )K said:

    @MisplacedDevelopment said:
    I have been getting in to step sequencing recently after being drawn in by GR-16 and enjoying myself, despite not being someone who is particularly in to electronic music. This journey has led me to investigating the various sequencers available.

    I have bought most of the sequencers that people have mentioned as being worth checking out and they all offer a few things that set them apart but many are pre-Drambo and so may have been replaced by the functionality in there. I have Drambo and can see it is a beast but have not set time aside to understand it yet so I am hoping to find out from someone experienced with the options on offer whether I should just invest time in learning Drambo rather than buying more sequencers that do certain things particularly well.

    The most popular sequencer that I do not have yet is Quantum. That is next on my shopping list and perhaps is the reason I started this thread. Reading the manual, it seems to do pretty much everything and I do not mind the interface (I also have Thesys and don’t mind that interface so the bar is fairly low!).

    Is there anything that Drambo particularly struggles with versus what is available? I’m sure it can do a lot of the basic sequencing tasks in its sleep but could I reproduce the cool ratcheting options in SPA, for example?

    1st CHOICE: GENOME.....till my fingers are cold and dead.

    I got this first before any other apps were out that sequenced and still love it.

    MODSTEP as well to play samples.

    I like the passion :smile: Yes, Genome is another I have heard good things about. I’ll need to check it out some more to see whether it offers anything over what I have so far but thanks for the recommendation.

  • edited April 2021

    @tahiche said:

    @krassmann said:
    I decided to try my luck with hardware. I bought an Arturia Beatstep Pro, will be delivered tomorrow. I want some knobs and buttons.

    Are you gonna you use the Beatstep just for drums?.

    Well, the Beatstep Pro has three tracks, two monophonic for melodies and one polyphonic for drums. I don’t know right now how exactly I will use it but for now my vision is to have the song basics still on iPad sequencers, LK and Atom 2. Then adding sequences from the Beatstep in a more interactive fashion as I have easy access to the sequencer steps directly by buttons and knobs. Some spontaneous live sequence creation and alteration while switching LK or Atom 2 clips with the Launchpad. I will see how this will work out. As the Beatstep can do no chords they need to come from the iPad.

  • @senhorlampada said:

    @krassmann said:
    I decided to try my luck with hardware. I bought an Arturia Beatstep Pro, will be delivered tomorrow. I want some knobs and buttons.

    This one has been tempting me for some time. It's only a tad expensive in my currency :lol:
    Maybe i'll save some cash and get it later this year

    I think it’s a great device at a really good price point. I want to go more in the direction of live sequencing instead of mostly programmed or recorded clips. In the best case combining both worlds.

  • One I started using hardware sequencers (OP-Z and Digitakt) I found it hard to go back. Especially the OP-Z, where everything is so immediate.

    Drambo’ s sequencer is the only thing that comes close, but I don’t like having to build the “machine” up just to get started. With OP-Z, a quick jam can turn into a complex track almost by accident. With software, I’m always looking through menus. It’s like playing the guitar via Excel-generated midi, instead of playing it directly.

  • @krassmann said:

    @tahiche said:

    @krassmann said:
    I decided to try my luck with hardware. I bought an Arturia Beatstep Pro, will be delivered tomorrow. I want some knobs and buttons.

    Are you gonna you use the Beatstep just for drums?.

    Well, the Beatstep Pro has three tracks, two monophonic for melodies and one polyphonic for drums. I don’t know right now how exactly I will use it but for now my vision is to have the song basics still on iPad sequencers, LK and Atom 2. Then adding sequences from the Beatstep in a more interactive fashion as I have easy access to the sequencer steps directly by buttons and knobs. Some spontaneous live sequence creation and alteration while switching LK or Atom 2 clips with the Launchpad. I will see how this will work out. As the Beatstep can do no chords they need to come from the iPad.

    Looks like a great device. I was looking into the Keystep Pro, that’s why asked about “just for drums”. I wish they had put a few pads on the Keystep. I guess you can add a midi keyboard and plug it into the Betastep for notes (or a pad thing into Keystep). Anyway, I wish they had both, if I have to choose I’d probably prefer to to beats on a keyboard than notes on pads.
    I’d like an “all in one” hardware device. Seems like Launchpad (pro for the sequencer) is everyone’s favorite, but I’m not sure about the layout, no keys, no knobs... I really dig the concept behind Atom SQ I wish the sequencer would run standalone.

  • @MisplacedDevelopment said:

    @RUST( i )K said:

    @MisplacedDevelopment said:
    I have been getting in to step sequencing recently after being drawn in by GR-16 and enjoying myself, despite not being someone who is particularly in to electronic music. This journey has led me to investigating the various sequencers available.

    I have bought most of the sequencers that people have mentioned as being worth checking out and they all offer a few things that set them apart but many are pre-Drambo and so may have been replaced by the functionality in there. I have Drambo and can see it is a beast but have not set time aside to understand it yet so I am hoping to find out from someone experienced with the options on offer whether I should just invest time in learning Drambo rather than buying more sequencers that do certain things particularly well.

    The most popular sequencer that I do not have yet is Quantum. That is next on my shopping list and perhaps is the reason I started this thread. Reading the manual, it seems to do pretty much everything and I do not mind the interface (I also have Thesys and don’t mind that interface so the bar is fairly low!).

    Is there anything that Drambo particularly struggles with versus what is available? I’m sure it can do a lot of the basic sequencing tasks in its sleep but could I reproduce the cool ratcheting options in SPA, for example?

    1st CHOICE: GENOME.....till my fingers are cold and dead.

    I got this first before any other apps were out that sequenced and still love it.

    MODSTEP as well to play samples.

    I like the passion :smile: Yes, Genome is another I have heard good things about. I’ll need to check it out some more to see whether it offers anything over what I have so far but thanks for the recommendation.

    Quantum is now my go-to for sequencing drums and possibly bass but I was not having much fun entering chords and melody, partly due to the lack of live note entry. Chaining multiple sections in Quantum is not as straightforward as it should be and doing it across multiple racks for a whole song was not going to happen without some pen and paper work.

    Enter stage left, Genome! This was a great recommendation, @RUST( i )K. It provides a productive environment for the melody and chord part of my workflow as well as handling the arrangement side. I also like that the app makes it easy to import or record MIDI from other sources so I can just point SPA/Quantum/whatever at the app to capture the output, or just record into Atom and export directly to Genome. At the moment I have Genome pointing to NS2 to use Obsidian and it records perfectly. This is just as well as the Genome MIDI export did not handle my drum track for some reason - there was a progressive drift in the timing as if it had chosen the wrong tempo for that track.

    Are there any bugs or problems that I should be aware of before I get too invested?

  • @MisplacedDevelopment said:
    Are there any bugs or problems that I should be aware of before I get too invested?

    One I found this evening is that the Legato MIDI launch option seems to sync on a bar quantum rather than starting the clip immediately. I was trying to create a contiguous sequence of 4 x half bars using MIDI launching (controlled from a Genome track with the output routed back in). Unfortunately the toggle clip mode will not work as without legato mode then the smallest quantum is 1/16 so I would have at least that as a gap between half bars after toggling on/off/on. “Set play” mode (where the length of the note drives the clip) also does not work as I would expect as two consecutive half bar notes need at least 1/16 gap between them to retrigger the clip.

    Workaround is to create longer composite clips rather than try and reuse shorter ones. In the long run this may be less hassle than trying to trigger clips myself anyway.

  • @krassmann said:

    @tahiche said:

    @krassmann said:
    I decided to try my luck with hardware. I bought an Arturia Beatstep Pro, will be delivered tomorrow. I want some knobs and buttons.

    Are you gonna you use the Beatstep just for drums?.

    Well, the Beatstep Pro has three tracks, two monophonic for melodies and one polyphonic for drums. I don’t know right now how exactly I will use it but for now my vision is to have the song basics still on iPad sequencers, LK and Atom 2. Then adding sequences from the Beatstep in a more interactive fashion as I have easy access to the sequencer steps directly by buttons and knobs. Some spontaneous live sequence creation and alteration while switching LK or Atom 2 clips with the Launchpad. I will see how this will work out. As the Beatstep can do no chords they need to come from the iPad.

    How do you store your data from Beatstep pro?

  • Forgot about this one.. DigiKeys..

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