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Rozeta LFO max value problem

xorxor
edited April 2021 in General App Discussion

I just noticed that Rozeta’s LFO never hits its max value. It hits its min. This wouldn’t be a problem if you could configure the max to be 128 but you can only set it to 127 so there’s no way to hit the max allowed by midi with the lfo. Huh.

Guess I could just use Drambo unless there’s some awesomeness that midiLFOs has?

Comments

  • wimwim
    edited April 2021

    @xor said:
    I just noticed that Rozeta’s LFO never hits its max value. It hits its min. This wouldn’t be a problem if you could configure the max to be 128 but you can only set it to 127 so there’s no way to hit the max allowed by midi with the lfo. Huh.

    Guess I could just use Drambo unless there’s some awesomeness that midiLFOs has?

    127 is the maximum for a midi message. A midi message with a value of 128 would be invalid and would be ignored or clipped to 127 by any target. This will be the maximum for any LFO app.

    You may be thinking that since there are 128 possible midi values that 128 should be the maximum. But 0-127 (inclusive) is actually 128 possible values. Start counting from zero on your fingers if your thumb is zero, your pinky will be 4 even though you have five fingers.

  • xorxor

    @wim said:

    @xor said:
    I just noticed that Rozeta’s LFO never hits its max value. It hits its min. This wouldn’t be a problem if you could configure the max to be 128 but you can only set it to 127 so there’s no way to hit the max allowed by midi with the lfo. Huh.

    Guess I could just use Drambo unless there’s some awesomeness that midiLFOs has?

    127 is the maximum for a midi message. A midi message with a value of 128 would be invalid and would be ignored or clipped to 127 by any target. This will be the maximum for any LFO app.

    You may be thinking that since there are 128 possible midi values that 128 should be the maximum. But 0-127 (inclusive) is actually 128 possible values. Start counting from zero on your fingers if your thumb is zero, your pinky will be 4 even though you have five fingers.

    In Rozeta set the min to 0 and the max to 127. Hook it up to a midi monitor and watch the values run from 0 to 126. It’s just an off-by-1 or a < rather than <= bug on the max. It has this same problem whether the max is 127 or 100 or 50. The max set by the ui is exclusive of the largest value generated whereas the min is inclusive.

  • wimwim
    edited April 2021

    @xor said:

    @wim said:

    @xor said:
    I just noticed that Rozeta’s LFO never hits its max value. It hits its min. This wouldn’t be a problem if you could configure the max to be 128 but you can only set it to 127 so there’s no way to hit the max allowed by midi with the lfo. Huh.

    Guess I could just use Drambo unless there’s some awesomeness that midiLFOs has?

    127 is the maximum for a midi message. A midi message with a value of 128 would be invalid and would be ignored or clipped to 127 by any target. This will be the maximum for any LFO app.

    You may be thinking that since there are 128 possible midi values that 128 should be the maximum. But 0-127 (inclusive) is actually 128 possible values. Start counting from zero on your fingers if your thumb is zero, your pinky will be 4 even though you have five fingers.

    In Rozeta set the min to 0 and the max to 127. Hook it up to a midi monitor and watch the values run from 0 to 126. It’s just an off-by-1 or a < rather than <= bug on the max. It has this same problem whether the max is 127 or 100 or 50. The max set by the ui is exclusive of the largest value generated whereas the min is inclusive.

    Oh, I didn't understand what you were saying from your initial description. You're right, max value out is 126. The square wave is the only one that goes the full range. Maybe @brambos can comment on this one.

    midiLFOs is an excellent app and does go to 127.

  • drewfx1drewfx1

    I'll guess that it's to avoid a DC offset.

  • wimwim
    edited April 2021

    @drewfx1 said:
    I'll guess that it's to avoid a DC offset.

    Oh yeh, I guess that makes sense. Midpoint can't be 63.5, has to be 63.

  • xorxor

    @wim said:

    @drewfx1 said:
    I'll guess that it's to avoid a DC offset.

    Oh yeh, I guess that makes sense. Midpoint can't be 63.5, has to be 63.

    Don’t think so. Max output is always one less than the ui whether it’s even or odd.

  • wimwim

    @xor said:

    @wim said:

    @drewfx1 said:
    I'll guess that it's to avoid a DC offset.

    Oh yeh, I guess that makes sense. Midpoint can't be 63.5, has to be 63.

    Don’t think so. Max output is always one less than the ui whether it’s even or odd.

    I wasn't disagreeing with you. It should go to 127 IMO. I was only agreeing on the possible reasoning behind why it was made to work that way.

  • xorxor

    @wim said:

    @xor said:

    @wim said:

    @drewfx1 said:
    I'll guess that it's to avoid a DC offset.

    Oh yeh, I guess that makes sense. Midpoint can't be 63.5, has to be 63.

    Don’t think so. Max output is always one less than the ui whether it’s even or odd.

    I wasn't disagreeing with you. It should go to 127 IMO. I was only agreeing on the possible reasoning behind why it was made to work that way.

    Yeah, no worries. I’m no expert in the field so don’t really understand how a dc offset would be something to worry about in a modulator. If that was the case then an odd-valued range would work but the even-valued ranges would be off-by-one and that’s not the case, they’re all off-by-one. I’d also expect other lfos to exhibit the same behavior and although I never bought midiLFOs Drambo’s lfo covers the full range. I was just surprised that after all these years no one’s noticed.

  • wimwim

    @xor said:

    @wim said:

    @xor said:

    @wim said:

    @drewfx1 said:
    I'll guess that it's to avoid a DC offset.

    Oh yeh, I guess that makes sense. Midpoint can't be 63.5, has to be 63.

    Don’t think so. Max output is always one less than the ui whether it’s even or odd.

    I wasn't disagreeing with you. It should go to 127 IMO. I was only agreeing on the possible reasoning behind why it was made to work that way.

    Yeah, no worries. I’m no expert in the field so don’t really understand how a dc offset would be something to worry about in a modulator. If that was the case then an odd-valued range would work but the even-valued ranges would be off-by-one and that’s not the case, they’re all off-by-one. I’d also expect other lfos to exhibit the same behavior and although I never bought midiLFOs Drambo’s lfo covers the full range. I was just surprised that after all these years no one’s noticed.

    Yep. Unless @brambos notices our pings, we can only speculate.
    Anyway ... midiLFOs is worth having regardless.

  • brambosbrambos
    edited April 2021

    Fixed! Yeah, it had to do with the asymmetrical nature of the full MIDI CC range when you follow the convention of using 64 as the center value. Update is on the way...

    Funny how it took over 4 years for someone to notice it B)

  • PoppadocrockPoppadocrock

    @brambos said:
    Fixed! Yeah, it had to do with the asymmetrical nature of the full MIDI CC range when you follow the convention of using 64 as the center value. Update is on the way...

    Funny how it took over 4 years for someone to notice it B)

    Thank you Mr. @brambos

  • PoppadocrockPoppadocrock

    Update is out

  • xorxor

    🎉

  • brambosbrambos

    @Poppadocrock said:
    Update is out

    Yeah, the reviewers did a really fast job this time :)

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