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What apps for saving WAV files with embedded loop point data?
This is driving me nuts since it seems it should be quite simple: what app (ideally ipad, but mac is also fine) should I use for defining loop points in an audio file and (importantly!) saving the loop points into the WAV metadata for use by other apps.
My specific use-case is I'm creating game audio sound effects to be used in the Godot game engine. The engine supports loading loop point information from the WAV file so it knows how to play sound effects with repeating sections (e.g. engine noise). But I can't for the life of me find an app that will allow me to define a region and write that information to file!
P.S. apps that have failed me so far:
Audacity (can trim a loop but not save loop point data to WAV)
WaveLab 10 LE (compared to what I see in tutorials, seems to be missing loop tools in the LE version)
Ableton Live Lite (can export a region but no WAV loop data exporting)
Comments
No takers? OK I seriously feel like I'm touching on forbidden knowledge here. Most of the forum discussion are years (if not decades) old and packed with dead links and obsolete software. Surely all these sample packs must be made with something??
Auditor by Living Memory Software has got this covered.
Beatmaker3 and NanoStudio2 can also do this. Auria Pro as well, probably.
You mention only desktop software. I assume you're asking about iOS software since you're here?
@wim can BM3 export the loop points though? I know how to set loop markers in the sample editor in BM3 but I didn't get the impression it was possible to export the loop metadata for another program to read.
I saved a sample with loop points in BM3 and the loop points were able to be read by Auditor and NS2. BM3 and Audiotor can also save with slice marks. I haven't tried that in NS2.
iPad, Auditor does.
Mac, Windows, Endless Wave does.
Wavosaur (Windows only), Sound Forge, Wavelab, does, but not in the less expensive versions.
Check KVR for other free software that will do what you're searching for.
Certain software do not correctly read loop-points, hopefully Godot does.
BM3 doesn't read loop-points correctly.
Seems like it does for me. Maybe I'm not looking at it in sufficient detail?
Sometimes the loop-points in imported WAVs are between 1 and ~10 samples off.
Do you know if this is a known/acknowledged bug? I might go to the trouble to report it if not. (probably I'll be too lazy to do so though).
These are still the most powerful for a wide variety of samplers.
https://www.chickensys.com/
https://samplerobot.com/
Due to much larger memory in modern samplers, many sample houses neglect creating loop-points.
I did long ago, spoke with Mathieu, he was looking into it, when the other guy took over, it was forgotten.
I usually loop my samples using either Renoise or LogicPro, both save loop metadata in the *.wav file. As far as I know Auditor and BM3 also embed loop meta-data when saving samples.
I’ve never bumped into issues in BM3 when loop data was incorrectly imported!?
But those apps that do not use loop data but instead loop with obscure % values are a pita especially when the % values do not snap to zero-crossings.
For Mac (also Windows and Linux) I really like Ocenaudio. It's free to use, updated constantly, has a friendly UI etc. It's one of the few programs that I can really zip around with muscle memory. Have used it loads. Never really gelled with Audacity, Twisted Wave was ok but it feels outdated on desktop and it's expensive, and I absolutely hated Wavelab.
iOS options are always improving (Auditor's very impressive) but keyboard shortcuts and a good mouse are much, much quicker than a touch screen for this kind of thing, at least for me.
Curiously, Ocenaudio also (occasionally) saves loops that are 1 sample different than what you intended. Not very often, but it does happen now and then. I'm completely OCD about my sample library and while you might think that this kind of behaviour would be a dealbreaker, it's not for me. I love the software. Sometimes a simple reloop and resave will fix it, but if not I'll add 1 or 2 silent samples at the start, or timestretch by 1 or 2 samples if it's a continuous loop, which subtly nudges the timing to something that it can work with.
I've never understood why this happens, so it’s interesting to hear about that percentage rationale @Samu. I wondered if it was rounding errors with timestamps vs. sample numbers but I've just rolled with it.
Also worth noting that SunVox can bake in loop points, if anybody's in a pinch.
Yepp, and it loads loop points from *.wav files too
I always forget SunVox is an AUv3 and how easy it is to use it as a sampler...
...sampling also works really well when loaded in AUM's FX slot. (Just add an Input module and connect it to the sampler and boom).
BeatMaker3 supports saving and loading Apple Loop format samples (AIF) which contain pre-configured slice and loop markers.
The audio is still uncompressed, like a WAV file, but this format was designed specifically to support this additional metadata and is fully supported by BM3.
Here’s an example file for you to try. Open this in BM3 then enable slice mode (top right) to see my 14 preconfigured slices.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b12a4wmxvcsba91/tearz-break-presliced.aif?raw=1
All my slicing is done in BM3 these days, so I haven’t yet tried importing apple loop samples sliced in other apps, so I can’t confirm or deny the earlier reports about the slice markers being slightly off by 1-10 samples.
I’ll run some tests importing slice samples form other apps when I get a chance.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll see if Godot reads the loop points from the BM3 export - and also thanks @tk32 for point out that it was even possible to export! Never occurred to me to check
By any chance does anyone with Auditor happen to know if an Auditor-created .wav with embedded loop points will be recognized and loop by Kontakt on desktop?
I don’t run a desktop, but if no one with Kontakt offers I could send you a wav file looped in Auditor, or loop a file you provide.
As far as I know Auditor adds a 'smpl' chuck to the *.wav file with loop the meta-data...
...this is what to my knowledge almost every single app that deals with *.wav and loop points uses.
Thank you, it seems like it does but i found out izo RX9, which I recently bought only adds markers that Kontakt wont see. I’m sure Auditor does but wanted to be sure. Count find anything in my searches.
Hey that would be great! It could be noise or anything on a short wav file. Thank you!
'Markers' are different story, they are 'cue' chunks in the *.wav file.
For example TwistedWave can add Markers while recording which can be really handy for longer recordings.
The Mac version of TwistedWave can do 'Slice By Markers' which is something the iOS version can't yet do...
Then we have the 'acid' format which very few iPad apps support natively (iMPC Pro 2 being one of them).
It's a 'closed' format and requires a license to use so I doubt we'll see too much support for it on the iPad.
Needless to say I have thrown in a request for a few apps to have support for 'cue' chunks (ie. auto slice) when importing a *.wav file with markers but I've not seen too many pre-cooked files with embedded 'cue' chunks...
Cheers!
What apps can read these markers?
Most DAWs that can import *.wav to a time line (Logic as one example puts the markers on the tempo track as notes).
Final Cut also reads the markers, have not checked Lumafusion yet..l
Twisted wave has support for markers as it’s apparently quite popular amog people working in broadcast (I’ve seen Radio journalists here in Sweden using TwistedWave on their iPhones to do interviews).
Don’t have Auria Pro but I suspect it reads them!?
Cubasis ignores them and, it also ignores loop meta-data when importing samples into mini-sampler.
The markers are heavily used by reporters, for exmple my Zoom H1 can add markers on the fly while recording.
Cheers!
This file has a loop created in Auditor:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bzdjr7x2742hbnj/LIMUID00-loop.wav?dl=0
Loop works perfectly in Renoise, SunVox, Logic Pro, BM3, NS2, AudioLayer, Upcoming Drambo Update, Caustic and even the sampler in GarageBand reads the loop points
(Hopefully Cubasis will gain that functionality some day...)
Since Auditor uses the standard 'smpl' chuck for the loop meta-data my bet is that most apps that support *.wav metadata properly will read it just fine...
Cheers!
Thank you for taking the time to do that! Kontakt read it just fine and automatically looped it at the loop points.
Interesting because AudioLayer didn’t read the loop when I tried it…
For me Audiolayer has read every single looped *.wav file I’ve thrown at it
@VirSyn would you be willing to test the looped wav file linked above? When loaded in AudioLayer I see no loop points yet reported to be there when used by @Samu in various other apps. Thanks in advance!
In AudioLayer you need to manually select Loop Mode and then it will use (oops it doesn't?!) the embedded meta-data, ie. loop does not automatically get enabled (Which it should if you ask for my opinion...).
If you want to try more *.wav files with loop points I've updated my SY85 samples for 2022 (just further optimization and trimming to reduce size as there was some 'slack' left at the end of the files).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sd2vv0yzg6xg5t0/SY85_2022.zip?dl=0
Sorry, I was too quick on AudioLayer!
@VirSyn please make sure that AudioLayer really uses the 'smpl' chuck when reading the loop meta-data from *.wav files...
Cheers!
/Samuel