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Wotja 21 mega-update

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Comments

  • impeteimpete

    @ervin said:

    It is certainly a challenge to make money in the apps business!

    All we've ever done is keep plugging away, so I guess after 30 years of work Wotja is now getting pretty powerful, and of course the work to make it easy to use is a never-ending challenge :smile:

    Best wishes,

    Pete

  • MasangaMasanga

    @ervin said:
    In fairness though, if they have figured out a business model in which they can take cc 30 EUR from their customers every year for one evolving app while keeping them happy, I would say that's quite a feat in the iOS music world. Good on them.

    Yes, the key is that they do their best to make each year's new version compelling enough to upgrade even though you don't have to. I can't think of another app (music or otherwise, mobile or desktop) that does that, or that adds major features at the rate that Wotja does. Maybe DEVONthink on desktop comes closest – another rabbit-hole app that delivers immediate wow out of the box but is bottomless once you start exploring. But Wotja is nimbler and moves faster still. That's why the documentation is permanently scrambling to keep up…

  • MasangaMasanga
    edited May 2021

    @impete said:
    7. Mythous - the original Koan piece - deconstructed; Mythous is what I think of as the first piece we constructed way back in the days of Koan (which predates Wotja by many years!) - how does it work?

    This is fascinating – I don't think I've ever seen this. How, indeed, does it work? Specifically, where is the sound coming from without any sounds or FX assigned to any of the voices?

  • MasangaMasanga

    (Incidentally, for anyone who's got that file playing, click on Mix FX => Presets => Big reverb haze pure (R2XL) for an indication of what the May update has brought to the party.)

  • impeteimpete

    @Masanga said:

    of as the first piece we constructed way back in the days of Koan (which predates Wotja by many years!) - how does it work?

    This is fascinating – I don't think I've ever seen this. How, indeed, does it work? In particular, where is the sound coming from without any sounds or FX assigned to any of the voices?

    The synth units actually, by default, will configure to a MIDI Wavetable.
    The Patch parameters in the Wotja system will tell them to use the appropriate patch!

    We've worked hard over the years to keep our oldest content "working as expected" - the Mix file data above came directly from importing an old Noatikl file (i.e. IME Template) - which itself came from an old Koan file. And it still works as expected!

    Pete

  • MasangaMasanga

    @impete said:
    The synth units actually, by default, will configure to a MIDI Wavetable.
    The Patch parameters in the Wotja system will tell them to use the appropriate patch!

    Woah. So if there's no sound-producing object in the synth network, it just addresses the General MIDI wavetable with the General MIDI patch number set for that generator?

    I see if I set it in the Mix it defaults to the current name for that patch ("090-Pad 2 (warm)"), and I can also set it in the wavetable object that's created by default when you open the synth view. You don't half think of everything.

  • impeteimpete

    @Masanga said:
    You don't half think of everything.

    I've had a 30+ year run-up :smile:

  • UMCorpsUMCorps

    Mythous. Bloody hell!

  • impeteimpete

    @UMCorps said:
    Mythous. Bloody hell!

    :scream:

  • MasangaMasanga

    @UMCorps said:
    Mythous. Bloody hell!

    No good will come of it. The word is half Greek and half Latin.

  • cooksferryqueencooksferryqueen

    @Masanga said:

    No good will come of it. The word is half Greek and half Latin.

    So is television, and that’s done pretty well.

  • impeteimpete

    @Masanga said:
    No good will come of it. The word is half Greek and half Latin.

    The piece is almost as old as both :smile:

  • impeteimpete

    And, actually, it was the first piece I created in Noatikl.

  • MasangaMasanga

    @impete said:
    And, actually, it was the first piece I created in Noatikl.

    Still sounds great with some fx on it. You can do so much with just a single cell, and it's a really nice introduction to how Generators work with Rules.

  • impeteimpete

    OK folks, version 21.8.0 is arriving soon. New document screen layout and various improvements -> new release ... hopefully this is easier for new users to get started with!

  • johnfromberkeleyjohnfromberkeley

    @impete said:

    @johnfromberkeley said:
    I've never been able to get past the varied Amway pricing models for this app over the years.

    Hi John - it has taken a lot of experimentation for us to figure-out what works! :smile:

    Pete

    I appreciate that. Thank you for being active and attentive here in the forums.

  • impeteimpete
    edited May 2021

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @motmeister said:

    I've created a new micro-tutorial on the subject of Listener generators. I hope you might find it of use!

    1. Listening Voices - Micro-tutorial

    8a. Getting started

    • open Settings -> MIDI Input, and make sure you've enabled a MIDI channel that you know will receive MIDI note on/off events from either a physical keyboard, a MIDI Generator app, or some other source.
    • create a new empty mix, and open it
    • make sure it is playing!
    • top left cell - browse for the template called "IME Generator Types" -> Listener
    • you now have a single cell, populated with a single Listener Generator - which is a
      generator that can "listen" for incoming MIDI events. By default, this is attached to MIDI Channel 1
      Note: Listener generators do not generate Notes directly - you need to Follow them, or use the Chording parameter.

    8b. Using Chording

    • take the output from 8a
    • select the Chording Group in the right-hand parameters panel, and set the Depth to 4
    • now, every time your Listening generator detects a note on event, it automatically generators a chord round it!
    • change the sound by tapping the Synth button attached to the right of your Generator, and press "Preset" button to select a sound you like; then press OK
    • now change the block chord you're hearing, to an arpeggio: select the Chording Group in the right-hand parameters panel, and set the Delay slider to 5
    • now, every time your listener detects a note on event, it'll play a strummed chord automatically!
    • you can now see/hear what happens when you play with the parameters in the Chording group.

    8c. Attach a Follower

    • take the output from 8b
    • tap the Listener, select "Add Generator of Type..." and select Follower
    • drag from the Follower generator you've just added, to the Listener generator

    • now, when your Listener detects incoming MIDI note on/off events (on MIDI channel 1!),
      the Follower generator will respond, by playing notes in direct response.

    • the notes selected for the Follower are chosen to harmonize with the Followed note

    • you can now see/hear what happens when you play with the parameters in the Follower group.
  • lukesleepwalkerlukesleepwalker

    @impete said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @motmeister said:

    I've created a new micro-tutorial on the subject of Listener generators. I hope you might find it of use!

    1. Listening Voices - Micro-tutorial

    8a. Getting started

    • open Settings -> MIDI Input, and make sure you've enabled a MIDI channel that you know will receive MIDI note on/off events from either a physical keyboard, a MIDI Generator app, or some other source.
    • create a new empty mix, and open it
    • make sure it is playing!
    • top left cell - browse for the template called "IME Generator Types" -> Listener
    • you now have a single cell, populated with a single Listener Generator - which is a
      generator that can "listen" for incoming MIDI events. By default, this is attached to MIDI Channel 1
      Note: Listener generators do not generate Notes directly - you need to Follow them, or use the Chording parameter.

    8b. Using Chording

    • take the output from 8a
    • select the Chording Group in the right-hand parameters panel, and set the Depth to 4
    • now, every time your Listening generator detects a note on event, it automatically generators a chord round it!
    • change the sound by tapping the Synth button attached to the right of your Generator, and press "Preset" button to select a sound you like; then press OK
    • now change the block chord you're hearing, to an arpeggio: select the Chording Group in the right-hand parameters panel, and set the Delay slider to 5
    • now, every time your listener detects a note on event, it'll play a strummed chord automatically!
    • you can now see/hear what happens when you play with the parameters in the Chording group.

    8c. Attach a Follower

    • take the output from 8b
    • tap the Listener, select "Add Generator of Type..." and select Follower
    • drag from the Follower generator you've just added, to the Listener generator

    • now, when your Listener detects incoming MIDI note on/off events (on MIDI channel 1!),
      the Follower generator will respond, by playing notes in direct response.

    • the notes selected for the Follower are chosen to harmonize with the Followed note

    • you can now see/hear what happens when you play with the parameters in the Follower group.

    This is great, thank you. Unfortunately, it still doesn't work for me--I tried it twice and got nothing...

  • impeteimpete

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    Almost certainly a MIDI routing issue!

    Couple of questions:
    1) what platform are you using (iOS, macOS, ...)
    2) what version are you using (Standalone, AUv3)

    What you answer next, will inform my next response :smile:

    Best wishes, Pete

  • craftycuratecraftycurate

    @impete said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    @motmeister said:

    I've created a new micro-tutorial on the subject of Listener generators. I hope you might find it of use!

    ...

    Thanks for all this! It's the note generation aspect of Wotja which has proved the hardest mountain to climb, and the most necessary, if I'm to ever to attan mastery!

  • lukesleepwalkerlukesleepwalker

    @impete said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:

    Almost certainly a MIDI routing issue!

    Couple of questions:
    1) what platform are you using (iOS, macOS, ...)
    2) what version are you using (Standalone, AUv3)

    What you answer next, will inform my next response :smile:

    Best wishes, Pete

    I'm on iOS and I tried it both standalone and as AUv3. For the latter I couldn't figure out how to do the MIDI routing at all so I didn't spend much time on it. For the standalone, I selected Wotja Omni for MIDI input but I didn't see an option to select the MIDI sender so I had no idea if MIDI was arriving in Wotja.

  • impeteimpete

    @lukesleepwalker said:
    I'm on iOS and I tried it both standalone and as AUv3. For the latter I couldn't figure out how to do the MIDI routing at all so I didn't spend much time on it. For the standalone, I selected Wotja Omni for MIDI input but I didn't see an option to select the MIDI sender so I had no idea if MIDI was arriving in Wotja.

    OK, thanks for explaining. Sounds like you were setting-up Wotja with a MIDI Feedback loop.

    Wotja Omni is the combined MIDI output from Wotja, for all MIDI channels.

    So: assuming you'd got your Wotja Mix configured with (say) a Listener on MIDI channel 1, and a Follower (of that Listener) on MIDI channel 2 - you won't hear any output until the Listener can respond to MIDI Note On/Off events coming-in on MIDI channel 1. But that can't ever happen, as your input ... is the output from Wotja (i.e. Wotja Omni) ... and Wotja isn't generating any output until it gets a MIDI input!

    Really, you want to use (say) a MIDI Keyboard app for iOS, and congfigure that to write to a port (and channel...) that Wotja listens to. It should all then "just work".

    Hoping this helps, anyhow!

    Best wishes,

    Pete

  • impeteimpete

    @craftycurate said:
    Thanks for all this! It's the note generation aspect of Wotja which has proved the hardest mountain to climb, and the most necessary, if I'm to ever to attan mastery!

    Yeah, I hear you :smile:

    I realised from our discussions here that we need some really simple, "just a few steps" written tutorials to complement the click-based tutorials that feature more graphics (which are much harder to create and maintain, but which have their own advantages).

    If you were to follow the above "Listener" tutorial, for example, you'd learn about Chording - and that is something that many Wotja users might not have even realised existed.

    So, the more micro-tutorials we can create, which take you through trying-out different features in just a few steps, I think might be really useful. And they're certainly quite easy to create.

    Of course, it might be difficult to users to know exactly what to ask about - like, you couldn't ask for a tutorial showing how to use Chording, if you didn't even know it existed!

    Which leads me to think, that it is the "experts" (like me, I guess!) to think "aha - that is really cool, and would be useful to explain, people might not know about that".

    There are so many features in Wotja (after 30+ years of development!), I think I'm probably guilty of taking those features for granted.

    So: if there are any Wotja experts out there :smile: who can think of cool bits that are worth exploring in some simple tutorials, or even their favourite bits that they'd love others to know more about, then do please let me know, and I'll do my best to try to cover them.

    Best wishes,

    Pete

  • impeteimpete

    @johnfromberkeley said:
    I appreciate that. Thank you for being active and attentive here in the forums.

    Happy to help, John! We're working hard to try to make it easier to "get to grips" with Wotja - and all feedback helps in that!

    I certainly hope you find the tutorials are useful - if there are any areas you think you'd like more info on, do please let us know.

    Best wishes, Pete

  • lukesleepwalkerlukesleepwalker
    edited May 2021

    @impete said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:
    I'm on iOS and I tried it both standalone and as AUv3. For the latter I couldn't figure out how to do the MIDI routing at all so I didn't spend much time on it. For the standalone, I selected Wotja Omni for MIDI input but I didn't see an option to select the MIDI sender so I had no idea if MIDI was arriving in Wotja.

    OK, thanks for explaining. Sounds like you were setting-up Wotja with a MIDI Feedback loop.

    Wotja Omni is the combined MIDI output from Wotja, for all MIDI channels.

    So: assuming you'd got your Wotja Mix configured with (say) a Listener on MIDI channel 1, and a Follower (of that Listener) on MIDI channel 2 - you won't hear any output until the Listener can respond to MIDI Note On/Off events coming-in on MIDI channel 1. But that can't ever happen, as your input ... is the output from Wotja (i.e. Wotja Omni) ... and Wotja isn't generating any output until it gets a MIDI input!

    Really, you want to use (say) a MIDI Keyboard app for iOS, and congfigure that to write to a port (and channel...) that Wotja listens to. It should all then "just work".

    Hoping this helps, anyhow!

    Best wishes,

    Pete

    Ah, OK, thanks for the tip. So, I verified my controller is sending MIDI on Channel 1 by setting up a MIDI monitor. I then enabled Channel 1 in Wotja and set up the listener as described above. Nothing. I then set up the MIDI monitor to see the MIDI that Wotja is generating--I can see the transport messages, the CCs, etc but no notes.

    Edit: I loaded a preset template and hit play and the notes are showing up in my MIDI monitor so it's all routed correctly. Just not getting the listener/follower to work at all.

  • lukesleepwalkerlukesleepwalker

    I think I got the listener/follower working with a preset I pulled out of the template list. What is a good template to use that will make it obvious when the sequence is following the listener?

  • craftycuratecraftycurate

    @impete said:
    If you were to follow the above "Listener" tutorial, for example, you'd learn about Chording - and that is something that many Wotja users might not have even realised existed.

    Thanks I'll take a look!

  • impeteimpete
    edited May 2021

    @lukesleepwalker said:
    I think I got the listener/follower working with a preset I pulled out of the template list. What is a good template to use that will make it obvious when the sequence is following the listener?

    I tend to just stick to a simple Piano sound, as that is quite "clean".

    Copy the following line of text to your clipboard:

    <fxm><unit t="tg" p="1400=001-Acoustic Grand Piano;1061=0;1046=488;1052=1500;1056=100"/></fxm>

    Next, tap the Synth button to show "MIDI 1 Synth", and select the Action button (top right), select "Import from Clipboard".

    That'll set your sound to a simple Piano!

    Amongst other things, that shows how easy it is to share Synth (and FX...) network designs :smile:

    Best wishes,

    Pete

  • impeteimpete

    @craftycurate said:

    @impete said:
    If you were to follow the above "Listener" tutorial, for example, you'd learn about Chording - and that is something that many Wotja users might not have even realised existed.

    Thanks I'll take a look!

    A couple of things I like about the Chording parameters

    • instant impact - very easy to use
    • by adjusting timings, you can have block chords, strumming effects, or something in between

    Pete

  • UMCorpsUMCorps

    And in combination with a Follow generator you can make some very nice piano compositions, with the chorded generator taking the right hand part and the follower playing as the left hand.

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