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Oh it’s been around a while. I am thinking of Al from Happy Days.
He said this is happening while running his setup with a battery power supply. Not over household current.
I’m not sure that would make it into the mobile music making brochure.
Did they give you a specific reason why it couldn’t be the hub?
I would question why they think that’s so. At the very least to know for certain if there’s a solid reason to discount it.
I was using an Anker powerbank, I linked the exact one on the original post. Not a power socket issue, that’s ruled out. .
I have to point out I’ve been using the powerbank and hub for months.
I actually believe at the exact time it went black I had unplugged the hub and immediately plugged the powerbank. Thus my theory about the “food getting into the air pipe because of a valve failure” theory.
Pretty sure I haven’t!. You know with the lockdown... if it was any other year you would have had a solid point. I’ve been pretty much at home buying apps for a year, little gypsy interaction.
Yes, it’s metal. Yes, I was plugging/unplugging.
As I said, last time it happened the Apple Store staff ruled out the hub as being able to fry the iPad. I trusted them, so I changed the powerbank instead.
No solid reason, no solid diagnosis, no solid advice.
This time around they actually thought that my needs were somehow amusing. “Who needs headphones with wires? . That’s so 80’s...” kind of look.
I mentioned it before, they recommended air buds. They had no idea about Bluetooth latency.
Also suggested a getting a new M1 pro because, hey, it’s thunderbolt. No further explanation.
Can you believe there’s not a single dongle/hub on sale at Apple store or web that provides a headphone jack and simultaneous charging?.
Oh, they also said maybe the iPad Pro wasn’t suitable for making music.
This was a the sale rep, a really nice kid. They sent me to the sales guy after the repair service, to assist me in getting the peripherals that don’t exist.
I hope you will get another free replacement! AppleCare allows for three events?
You’re right, probably safest bet. But...
Totally. So let me explore the options IF I get a replacement...
I need an Apple official usb hub and a portable USB2 audio device. But I also need to plug in my controller, a brand Launchkey mini. That’s 2 usb’s, there’s only one on the Apple hub.
That means an audio device with midi. Considerably larger. Plus a mini-jack midi to 5 pin to plug the Launchkey to the audio interface. How do I power the Launchkey?. Ok, so I need a power outlet just for the Launchkey.... Or maybe a usb hub to go into the Apple hub to provide extra USB ports... will it provide power??.
In any case we’re going from a sofa-ready minimal, no hassle setup, consisting of a tiny hub and headphones to hub + audio interface + midi who knows... Hardly mobile. Might as well use my desktop if I’m “tied” like that.
They are kids who know very little. I would not have any faith in anything they say.
All they do is help people who ask to most basic questions all day long.
If the hub is working to spec, it shouldn't be able to damage any device it's drawing power from or delivering power to. It should have protection circuits that would block static as well. But, what I'm wondering is if the first static event (assuming there was one) blew the static protection or the voltage protection circuit in the hub.
I don't know how you would go about reliably testing this though.
How updated is your iPad? Could be a conflict with it’s operating system or with AUM itself......
The 2 reasons apple puts only one port on a Pro device.. money from dingles and to shorten the life expectancy of the device. Plugging headphones, chargers and peripherals into port will cause the port to fail eventually, with no other port to use yr forced to buy a new Pro pad. Get a surface pro 7. It's got 5 ports. Guitar rig works really well for touch screen. Worth a thought. I'm gingerly plugging stuff into my one port Pro because my phones usb c is start to play up
Surface Pro? LOL. No.
It could be related to a faulty hub and/or cable. Even if the manufacturer is good...there is no manufacturing line that doesn't occasionally turn out a defective unit. Perhaps, it isnt Satechi hubs as a problem but that particular one or a cable with an issue.
Oh my… not you again. I feel your pain @tahiche. I’m awaiting my new iPad Pro in a few days so I also need to solve the whole problem with a USB-C hub setup. And I also do use my setup with a power bank when going out into nature. Let’s analyze it a bit further.
We know it happens when battery powered. But are you also using your setup with the Satechi hub with wall power?
Any specific devices connected that aren’t normally used?
Did it also happen when you powered the iPad through the Sharkoon DAC?
If I ask Mr Spock he’d say that it’s logical that the deadly current was finally delivered by the hub as it is in the end of the chain, right? For sure it did not prevent it from happening and I think it should. According to the USB PD spec there must be negotiation about the power that can be delivered and obviously it delivered too much.
Connection scheme is Power bank -> Satechi hub’s USB-C PD port -> Satechi hub USB-C plug -> iPad —- Correct? If you fried your iPads always when connected with your Satechi hub… it must have something to do with it. Maybe it has a problem. Maybe it doesn’t really work well with a power bank. I know Apple stores sell Satechi hubs but maybe normally noone is using it with a power bank.
What kind of cable are you using to connect the power bank to the PD port of the Satechi hub? Is it a smart cable with a chip? Which port on power bank? The USB-C PD port or the USB-A IQ port?
Honestly Im thinking about buying the expensive Apple USB-C-Digital-AV-Multiport-Adapter for my new iPad Pro. I don’t trust these Chinese brand hubs now and a good cable that is certified for Thunderbolt 3.
Thanks man!. 🙏
Hi!.
No. This time I had the Launchkey but not the other times. That’s not a pattern.
No i haven’t had an issue with that, but I can’t recall if I’ve used the Sharkoon with the powerbank, though. The powerbank is pretty new, bought it since it seemed that it had to do with the powerbank.
This is a very good point, I’ve been using the Satechi hub with the Anker powerbank without a problem until today. It’s not an obvious device failure or incompatibility. Rather that in happens under very specific circumstances. Again, the silly metaphor of the food going down the air conduct because of the valve... it doesn’t happen in the middle of operation, but when plugging/unplugging. And always (the 3 times) with a powerbank involved. It seems obvious now that it’s got yo do with the Hub, like it seemed obvious it was the powerbank after the first 2 times.
No headphone jack on that one. There’s not a single unit on the Apple Store with a headphone jack. I guess you can use the Sharkoon DAC for “casual” use and a usb sound card when needing to record or play. You’d still need a usb hub to use a Launchkey or any device that needs usb since there’s only one USB port.
I had a USBC powered hub blow summer of 2019. Not sure if at all related to your story, but it was a first for me.
I was using it with a 2018 12.9” iPad Pro. The manufacture sent me a new hub and no problems to date. At that time, I was on the road and just assumed the local wall power was dodgy.
get an iPad with a headphone jack
this. its the reason i bought the Air3 over the pro at the time. don't regret it at all.
Let me show you my setup. I’m using an original Apple dongle that allows to power the iPad and has got a USB-A port. Then I connect an active (means powered) USB-A hub to it and then my Midi/audio gear to that hub. At home I power the hub and the iPad with their wall power supplies. Outdoors I use a power bank that is similar to your Anker. I connect the Apple dongle to its USB-C PD port and the USB hub to its USB-A quick charge port. Then both power deliveries are kind of separated - I think that makes it more safe. The latter delivers enough power to drive my Arturia BeatStep, my Midi keyboard, a launchpad and the DAC (with adapter) to have an audio jack. The USB quick charge standard can deliver 5V 2A which is probably not enough for an iPad Pro but it is enough for this gear I listed above.
This is the USB hub I’m using. The important feature for mobile usage is that the hub can be powered by USB (by the power bank) as you can see on the second picture. There are also other models with more ports. Actually at home I’m using an Icy Box hub with 10 ports and for mobile usage I use this 4 port model:
https://www.amazon.de/CSL-Verteiler-Ultrabook-Tablet-PC-bus-powered/dp/B01K7RR3W8?language=en_GB
The big hub at home:
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Icybox-IB-AC6110-Port-USB-3-0/dp/B00Q4RF1UC?language=en_GB
I must admit that currently I’m using this setup with an iPad 8 with a lightning dongle from Apple. BUT last year I had an iPad Pro 2020 and it worked well with the same setup of course with the USB-C Apple dongle. I returned this iPad Pro, that’s why I’m back at my old iPad 8 right now. Well, long story… Anyway I ordered the new iPad Pro 2021 and plan to use the same setup.
See how the power bank delivers power to the Apple dongle and to the USB hub. I can even add my Launchpad X and it still powers everything.
I hope they’ll replace your iPad!!!
Update: you say it happened during plugging/unplugging. That is a very valuable hint. So that suits to my theory that it happens because of a wrong power delivery negotiation. But plugging exactly what? The hub, the power bank, the gear? Following my set up would mean that the USB-C power negotiation for powering your iPad would be handled by the Apple dongle and hopefully it’s doing it right for the iPad.
This is a comprehensive setup. But not very “sofable”... my concept of portability is sofa-centric 🙃
Yes!. Did you read my (excellent) analogy to food going down the air pipe?. Power delivery is the valve. It’s too slow closing down the air channel and when you take a quick bite it goes down the air pipe instead of the esophagus. The Satechi attaches to the side of the iPad so it’s more fiddly in nature, it looses connection. So I plug and unplug it to stabling connection again. That might be the “uniqueness” that makes me the winner of ipad frying.
You seem to know your stuff. Correct me cos I’m gonna go on a totally undocumented limb here... Why doesn’t it happen with lighting ports?. Because negotiation is different and there’s no output of power.
Bullshit theory summary:
This type of hub, without a flexible connection cable, puts a lot of physical stress on your port.
Also when pluging in the os needs to connect the audio and video devices built into the hub. So pluging in and immediatly removing the hub might cause the problem.
The apple usb3 to lightning dongle caused a similar problem for my air2. Apple replaced the ipad and not much later the dongle received an update.
Hmm… don’t you have a power outlet near your sofa?
Anyway, if your setup is just the iPad, the Launchkey and the Sharkoon DAC (with a USB-A adapter), a hub and the power bank it would not use much space but would surely have more dangling cables than your setup. You could build a box with the hub, dongle and cables inside.
Yes, this analogy has some truth I believe. For sure the Satechi does not prevent the deadly current from hitting your iPad. It’s possible that it is a malfunction of your very own hub but it’s also possible that it is a design flaw of the model. Do you really want to fry another iPad to find out?
I mean simply these connection problems would make me losing my trust in this device. Moreover I think this hub might be too much mechanical stress for the USB port. In the past I ruined a phone by having it plugged into USB-C in my car very often and the phone’s USB port became mechanically damaged. After a while the USB connection became unreliable and finally I was unable to the charge the phone.
My belief is that the Apple dongle is more trustworthy, regardless of lightning or USB-C. Amen.
Hard to say. If the power bank is explicitly iPad compatible I don’t think it is the problem. Also because of it is in the beginning of the power delivery. I would also try to use an expensive Thunderbolt 3 certified cable. There are certified ones that are significantly cheaper than the Apple cables. C’mon Apple, 50 bucks for a cable? Which USB-C cable are you using for connecting the power bank to the hub? It could also be a reason.
That’s the problem with the whole USB chaos. The specs are not very strict and manufactures can implement just what they need. For instance, I was so happy to find a hub with 4 USB-C ports but reading the small print I found out that it doesn’t support the Display Port protocol so a connected monitor would remain dark. The new USB 4.0 spec is based on Thunderbolt 3 and they are almost the same but implementing Thunderbolt 3 is not mandatory for manufactures to be USB 4 certified. So if you have a Thunderbolt 3 device and connect it to a USB 4 hub or with a USB 4 cable it might fall back to slower USB 3 protocol. Of cause all these devices have the same USB-C connector, so they seem to be compatible but actually they aren’t. USB A, B or C is just a connector type but what actually does work with a cable, hub or device is the question of the implemented protocols.
It’s total madness.
And if you really get what you expect is a question of if the whole chain of USB devices, hubs, cables is doing things right and support the desired protocols. I strongly advice to write down the USB specs of all your cables, hubs and devices when you buy them.
BTW, I’m not an expert on this. Honestly your trouble caused me to read and learn about it.
Figured I'd put my 2 bits in....I think that the plugging/unplugging thing might be close to what's happening here. If the state of the chip isn't switching fast enough and then you add power to one end it might be overloading something. I think that this is more likely the case than the USB hub doing weird things or the battery doing weird things - especially if you've already replaced the external battery supply. Difficult to test without potentially blowing up a huge number of devices in the process which seems to be a track you've already been going down.
Funny thing about this I personally know a person who is highly energised who managed to blow up two mixing boards by essentially just walking past them (not by using them)...
Couple of other points:
Apple did do some kind of software update last year for some of the MacBook Pros with USB C ports because of things blowing up with some 3rd party USB hubs.
My Arturia Minilab II seems to need more power than you would expect for a simple USB device. It's possible there's some extra power stress with the Launchkey involved...pure speculation.
At times when I plug my iPad into my MacBook Pro the laptop will say it's cut the connection because of excess power draw, but when I look into it everything is still connected and powering normally. Maybe it's an indicator of something in their power management on the USB-C protocol?
Just throwing up some ideas.
It's not you.
It's the NSA bricking a lot of devices lately while reading them out. Accidentally? I don't know.
@tahiche I second your hiccup metapher... the Anker powerbank is capable to quick load notebooks, which will deliver 12V (instead of 5V) to the connected unit... if I understood correctly.
If you interupted power delivery negotiations by acting too fast, it may have picked the wrong item from the list.
Not your fault, as I never read about hints like: „wait a few seconds“ or similiar in context with chargers or powerbanks.
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It's not going to help you much, amigo, but I have to point out I like that flat UI design of your current custom ipad mini there
I'm not a fan of those wedge dongles at all, and wonder if this design has anything to do with it, surely the extra weight of the dongle doesn't do the port any good. I much prefer a cable coming out of the iPad port into a multi port device. Easier to handle like that as well.