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Thunderbolt hub for iPad Pro ?
I´m getting a 2021 iPad Pro and need a hub to connect a buss powered USB keyboard and bus powered USB soundcard.
I would like to be able to run both devices on the Ipads battery when needed for portable use and then while stationary plugging the hub into 220v/adapter to charge the the Ipad and supplying power to the other devices without having to change or reorganise cables.
Any recommendations ??
All the best
Morten 
Comments
Honestly, better think of a setup including a power bank. Very probably the iPad Pro 2021 is capable of delivering PD but no one knows how much Watt. I wouldn‘t rely on it. My solution is to buy the Apple Thunderbolt USB-A adapter, an active (powered) USB-A hub and a power bank that has a USB-C PD and a USB-A quick charge port. Then you can power the iPad and the USB-A hub. The hubs also consume power by themselves. I was interested in a USB-C to 4 USB-A ports hub with additional HDMI port and was shocked that it consumes 8 Watts by itself (written in the fine print).
I researched some hours for good USB-C or Thunderbolt hubs. Hubs with multiple USB-C data ports are rare or don‘t implement all specs I want. You always have to read the fine print in the specs. For instance the Sitecom CN-386 USB-C Hub looks quite good but it doesn‘t support display signals, so external monitors would stay dark. But if you don’t need that I think it could be quite a good hub. USB is quite a relaxed spec and manufacturers only implement what they need. The only hubs that implement everything are Thunderbolt 3 or 4 hubs as the spec is much more strict. But they are 180+ bucks and need a wall power supply.
It is very important to understand that USB-A or USB-C is just a connector type - not a protocol spec. It counts which protocols are implemented by a hub, device or cable. USB 2.0, USB 3.x, USB 4, Thunderbolt 3 or 4, display port, PD, QC. Some protocols require that the cable is smart and has a chip that can negotiate the modes of operation with both ends. For some protocols you need that the whole chain - device, hub, cable - is supporting the desired protocols. That a device/hub/cable can do PD does not mean much, it is important up to how much Watt each of those can do while TB3 has got 100W in the spec. It‘s a nightmare. If you want to be on the safe side buy only Apple or certified Thunderbolt gear but that‘s expensive and you don’t have much choices.
For USB it’s exactly as in the swinger‘s motto „Everything is possible but nothing is a must“
We discussed the topic also in this thread and I posted a diagram of my solutions: https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/955487#Comment_955487
The poor guy fried three iPads Pro by using shitty gear. So watch out.
Pheww - thanks for the awesome reply!
I also read the linked thread. This adapter scheme is the worst bs !
Do you know of any "safe" usb C/thunderbolt extender cable about a meter or so in length. Both the Apple adapter and the Sitecom hubs hangs 10 cm to the side of the Ipad making a mess in the process. I would prefer to have a clean solution with one slim usb C cable connection to the Ipad and then have alle the mess with the dongles, fongles and cables further away in a neat little bag
All the best
Morten
Oh can someone please enlighten me about the differences between the hubs?
I mean, I found a thunderbolt hub recommended for 200+ dollar but my very cheap 20 dollar Amazon hub was always faithful on my 2018 iPad Pro. What do i get for the additional 180+ dollars 😳
Thanks!
The bag is a great idea but unfortunately I don't know a TB extender cable. I was actually thinking of building a box that would house the mobile hub, cables and a power bank and the iPad could stand on top of it. Then the short cable of the hubs would be fine. Another idea is to find a suitable housing for DIY electronic stuff but the bag is also a good idea.
I like the extension cable idea so later I will look for such cables. The question is if a good USB 3.2 cable would be good enough or if it must be a Thunderbolt cable. A good 3.2 Gen 2 cable would at least deliver 10 Gbps and 100W PD with proper negotiation but not the TB 40 Gbps and dual 4k display capabilities.
Anyway I would wait until you have received your iPad so you can make use of the refund option if the gear doesn't work.
Thunderbolt 3 is a quite ambitious specification that guarantees 40 Gbps transfer speed, dual 4k video monitor support, 100W power delivery. That is probably not so difficult to fulfil for a cable, although good Thunderbolt 3 cables cost 50+ dollars. The passive ones only deliver the 40 Gbps at max 0.5m length, otherwise it must be an expensive active cable.
TB 3/4 and USB4 is quite a challenge for a hub as it's high speed data transfers is basically externalized PCIe. TB3 has no hub specification but supports daisy chaining. AFAIK TB3 hubs actually do daisy chaining internally. The new USB4 spec actually does provide a hub specification but that is quite a challenge to implement: USB 2 and 1.1 support requires a dedicated controller. USB 3.x, TB 3/4 and USB4 signals are on the same lanes and multiplexers on the hub must filter the data streams by PCIe packet inspection.
Okay, enough said about the technical challenges. That is all only important if you want this: several external SSDs, two 4k monitors, hundreds of AVB audio streams etc. If your use case is to power your iPad while making music and connect several power hungry USB devices, maybe connect an external monitor and one external drive then a USB 3.x hub is probably enough. The problem is that with USB 3.x hubs you need to study the fine print in the specs if the needed protocols and capabilities are supported while Thunderbolt 3/4 have a fair degree of higher capabilities guaranteed.
My ideal hub ATM would have one USB-C PD 60+ Watts for powering the iPad, 4 ports with USB-C. Capable of DP alt (display), USB 3.1 or higher (best USB 3.2 Gen 2x2). Then I could connect my USB-A 3.x hub for all the USB music gear, my USB-C monitor and the USB-C audio interface (headphone jack). The Sitecom comes close but has not DP alt.
Anyway, I still think buying the Apple Thunderbolt multimedia dongle (USB-A up to 5 Gbps, HDMI 2.0, USB PD up to 100W) in conjunction with a good powered USB-A 3.x hub is a viable option that would still allow to additionally connect one 4k monitor at 60Hz and one fast USB 3.x external drive next to your USB music devices.
@krassmann that was actually really krass, Mann
Thanks for the insight. Daisy chaining would be a game changer (in the dongle department for me). Being able to power the ipad, driving a launchpad and sooner or later an audio interface sounds actually pretty useful for me. Danke and einen schönen Feierabend!
I use this Anker one, which has one USB-C for power, one USB-C for data, and a couple of USB-A. There's also HDMI and Ethernet. Never had an issue with my iPad Pro. Will know tomorrow if it still works well with the 2021 edition.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08C9HZ5YT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Nice that it has a USB-C data port additionally to the PD port. Could be used for the headphone dongle. But I do not like the 30 Hz video out and I find it suspicious that from the 65W PD input only 53 are getting to the host - see picture #3. Does it mean the hub consumes 12W? Did you notice any significant battery drain when connected to the iPad without a power supply? Or could you charge the iPad at a normal speed through the hub?
Thanks a lot for all the info - really helpfull..
I guess a simple 3.xx usb extension cable will be enough since I just need a simple setup with an iPad Pro 2021 with two usb outputs - one for a bus powered keyboard and one for a bus powered soundcard (Motu m2 or Babyface Pro).
So is this a realistic setup. Ipad (-) extension cable (-) Apple (Usb/Hdmi dongle - with Ipad charger connected (-) Then use the Usb out from the apple dongle to a simple usb hub that splits the signal to the two usb devices. All power comes from either Ipad when not connected or Ipad charger when connected. ??
Or perhaps just Ipad directly to a USB 3.x hub with the two usb devices connected - but how will I change the Ipad and deliver power to the two devices ?
Or any other setup that is as simple as possible that will make the setup: Ipad / soundcard / keyboard work ?
All the best
Morten
I use these, but they make them in usbc
Motu828 is the sound card connected.
https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Charging-Compatible-Keyboard-Ethernet/dp/B07ZYYBTFN/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Lightning+to+dual+usb&qid=1621549036&sr=8-3
Definitely checking with @krassmann before I buy my next hub!!!
So, the new iPads have thunderbolt but use a USB c type connector so I can connect and use my old hub but not at thunderbolt speeds. Is that right?
LoL, I’ll try my best.
Right, if you don‘t need to connect a monitor with USB or a high speed drive then there is not much to worry about. Just check that the gear is USB 3.x compliant. Check that all cables and the hub does USB PD min 30W better 60W or 100W. Keep in mind that iPad seems to need almost 20W to charge and that hubs consume some W themselves especially if the have a HDMI port. I connected my power bank that delivers 18W PD through an old USB-C hub and then the iPad says “Not charging”, without the hub it charges. If data transfer speeds is of some importance look out for gear that has USB 3.x Gen 2 in the specs.
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/usb-3-2-explained-making-sense-of-current-and-confusing-usb-standard/
If you are a power user and want to be on the safe side regarding display connectivity and high speed data transfer, then buy Thunderbolt 3 certified hubs and cables. . IMHO the prices of the Thunderbolt 3/4 or USB4 hubs won’t come down much as these hubs are technically complex. The choices will be greater but any price below 100$ should make you suspicious. The only risk is that you buy expensive stuff but connecting future USB4 gear might fall back to USB 3.2 speeds as USB4 spec does not require to implement TB3 and then USB 3.2 is best common ground.
Unfortunately you always have study the specs. On Amazon some hubs have got Thunderbolt in their title but in the specs they talk only about USB 3.x. I guess they want to express that you can connect to a Thunderbolt device like a MacBook.
My decision:
I ordered the Sitecom CN-386 to connect USB-C PD power, the Apple headphone dongle and my active USB 3.2 hub (via a USB-C to USB-A cable with USB 3.2 specs). That will not allow USB-C displays but a monitor is not very useful right now anyway. A connected external drive can connect with up tp 10 Gbps which is fast enough for me and gives enough headroom as this bandwidth is shared with the audio streams of the audio interface.
Regarding the idea with the USB-C extension cord I’ll try my luck with this cable. Specs look fine for me.
“Belkertech”
Behringer cables?
Thanks @krassmann filing that info away...
I received the Sitecom CN-386 today and it works nicely. I could power the M1 iPad through this hub with my 18W power bank and the iPad can charge. So the hub itself does not consume much power as I hoped for.
Thanks a lot @krassmann
Fingers crossed for the extension cable - please drop a line if it does not work as expected..
I will post back also if Im lucky to get the iPad to power a keyboard and soundcard and for how long the batt works.. Otherwise I'm gonna use your proposal with the powerbar to power a hub with the the two usb devices. I do not understand why you need battery power for the Ipad itself, since it already carries a battery that should last at long enough for a session on the go ???
Just ordered a new 21’ pro and I am wondering if my previous hub ( Kingston Nucleum) will work with the new iPad?
The Nucleum is usb-c too…but never understood what is the difference between usb-c 3…then you have usb-c 3.1 and so on…will this hub give the proper speed transfer that thunderbolt delivers? Or maybe I should go with yours @krassmann ?
Thanks!
I guess it will work. 60W PD is enough. USB 3.1 Gen 1 (5 Gbps) is enough unless you plan to connect a high performance drive. At Amazon another owner denies that it has 4k@60Hz. Anyway I would expect that they would point that out if it would. 30Hz is quite flickering - I wouldn't like it. Well, if you need the HDMI and the card reader then go for it but I try to keep the hub as simple as possible. All these ports will consume power.
it's very confusing. Moreover they renamed the specs to confuse even further. Bottom line:
No with these hubs you won't get Thunderbolt speeds. I must also say that it is not easy to find USB 3 cables or adapters that support more than 5 Gbps. At least I found a 10 Gbps C to A adapter for my fast thumb drive: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01EZTISQO
Nucleum has got 5 Gbps, 60W PD. The Sitecom has got 10 Gbps, 100W PD and consumes not much power - that's what I can say. For audio gear and a standard USB thumb drive both should be fine. But the hubs are not good enough for connecting a USB-C monitor and/or a high performance USB SSD drive.
@xmortenx I want to be able to power both the iPad and the hub separately because I experienced trouble when connecting a lot of power hungry USB audio gear (in my case BeatStep, Launchpad, MicroFreak, audio interface at once) and the iPad is not fully charged. Then the power delivered through the hub was not enough any more. Moreover I want to be sure that my iPad has enough battery even for hours of outdoor music making - high CPU load and high display brightness.
BTW my 18W USB-C PD powerbank was too weak to power everything when the iPad was not fully charged. I bought a 30W model and now it works also in this case: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0834PDS2H
@krassmann yeah , I won’t need the hdmi port…but I like the idea of a sd card. How do you like your sitecom so far? All good? Proper charging?
Poor guy here 🙋🏻♂️
Wasn’t shitty gear. 50$ Satechi hub, same brand they sell at AppleStore!.
But yes. I fried 3 iPads. And yes, you should get an original Apple hub because all this is pretty dodgy and unclear. With the Apple one at least you know who to blame.
Sorry @tahiche for the language. I mean your hub was not a shitty thing but I think its design is flawed. It can do too much mechanical stress to the iPad‘s port and therefore might be responsible for your mishaps. It looks cool but the usage is risky. It’s true that the Apple dongle is the safe bet and I also wanted to buy it but I decided to take the plunge and I bought the Sitecom CN-386 hub because of its many USB-C ports and good USB features.
So today the last part of my mobile setup was delivered and I tested it.
So far everything works fine and everything gets enough juice. At home the Anker hub is replaced by a wall powered hub and the headphone dongle by my audio interface.
I would say when looking for a usb hub check the specs
for the amount of current it can deliver.
Even if the hub says that it's usb 3 it may not be able to deliver enough current
to supply peripherals such as an external audio interface,
keyboard and another peripheral.
If the specs say for instance that it can delivery a 2.4 amp output
that may not be per port, that could be in total.
I have a usb interface from a company called "Advent", and it's able to
supply enough current for a KA 6 mkii, Launchpad X, Launch Control XL
and Korg Nanokontrol mki.
The iPad gets it's own power supply via the usb to lightning adapter.
I've had this powered usb hub for over two years and it works solid.
On the other hand I recently purchased a cheap no name usb 3 powered hub
and that one can barely supply enough power for an external audio interface
let alone other peripherals even when connected to an external power supply
simply because it wasn't designed for heavy usage.
However I can use this one if I need a stripped down rig to be run from a powerbank.
My Zoom U-44 and keyboard don't use that much current thankfully.
So in summary check the specs for current delivery.
@krassmann
All your tests and the sharing is just awesome - thank you again
Its so weird that apple does not produce some proper solutions for connecting stuff to the singular port on their devices. Their adapters are lacking ports and to my eyes the short 10 cm cable for their dongles makes for crazy mess that runs completely contrary to the sleek image they are presenting with the Ipad..
It's a bit different in the USB-C world. They talk about 60 or 100 watt supplies, because they use higher voltages, not the 5 volts of conventional USB. So having enough power is just a matter of a bigger brick.
For the most part it’s dependant upon the amount of current the devices need as well as the voltage.
If a 100watt power supply can only deliver 2.4 amps in total and all of the
devices combined need 12 amps then the power supply will choke.
Though I’m using usb 2 and 3 for the purpose of my description
the same principle applies to any source of power.
Watts indicate how much energy is used measured in joules per sec.
“ Amps are how many electrons flow past a certain point per second. ... Power (watts) is volts times amps. A few electrons under a lot of potential can supply a lot of power, or a lot of electrons at a low potential can supply the same power. ”
Good explanation. I think it's a bit easier to work in terms of watts, since the USB-C hubs/docks receive power at one voltage (10 to 30 V) and supply power to their USB ports at 5 V (via a DC-DC converter). And my point was that these hubs usually have plenty of power available, so power to their USB ports is less of an issue.
FWIW just tested the CalDigit TS3+ with my 2021 iPad Pro 11" and can confirm that it works fine with the iPad over thunderbolt. I can access the hard drives and SD card connected to the hub just fine. It also charges the iPad over TB as well in case anyone is curious.
That looks like a solid hub...also its price :0
Good to know.