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Also, the iPad makes a good control surface. Logic Remote was already mentioned, but there's also Lemur, TouchsOSC and other apps. You can build yourself a Zimmer-style touch control panel
Ive never had much luck with mainstage. If you want that aum feel, use AU lab. Its free and and more stable than mainstage.
I used to use AU Lab all the time for testing AU's in and recording with but it's not maintained any more is it?
I've never had any stability problems with MainStage. I'm not much into the skeuomorphic design aspects of it, but it does work really well for me. It also works with Logic Remote for use with an iPad.
https://www.apple.com/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/
Not much to maintain tbh
As far as I can see, that one's from 2012 and won't work with AUv3 or M1. It lists the AU's but errors when it tries to load them.
3rd Party Audio Units for Lumafusion 3, will be a great thing (at least for me)
Havent used it in a while, but i know its old software. Ill give it another go when i get home.
Cant vouch for the m1 thing tho. Waiting for rev2. Apple phases out 1st versions of things pretty quick.
I have an Intel Mac so can’t use Drambo on Mac.
But to be honest, don’t tell anybody but I’ve never actually created anything good in drambo yet.
@krassmann, I forgot to mention another reason you won't fully leave ipad behind: instrument prices, mate. Having spent time with beautiful stuff that you bought for a fiver/tenner, I promise you you won't find it easy to either leave those behind or start buying new stuff at 100 EUR a pop.
The contrast is even more immediate when the same new thing comes out for both platforms, and it costs several times the money for the Mac version.
(BTW, I warmly recommend at least the free version of Vital synth.)
But have you at least spent enough time scrolling horizontally in it? 🤓
I use Studiomux regularly between iPad and MacBook Air 2014 (Mojave) / iMac 2017 (High Sierra). It's key for my setup, into Ableton mostly at the moment and then, when I have the chance, onto Endlesss Studio for online jams.
It doesn't work hosting AUv3s in iOS 14, but works fine and reliably to route audio in and out of AUM. I'm generally using 3 channels, but more is possible, with all desktop midi devices available independently in AUM (unlike IDAM).
I've also been beta testing Studiomux 5 on Catalina, it's getting there slowly, but I wouldn't rely on it for anything just yet.
That's true, it gets very expensive real quick. So I rarely buy new plugins. But I'm finding it actually helps me focus on learning and using things I already have.
Though I often see some amusing messages on forums like kvraudio or gearspace. It usually goes like "I already have Omnisphere, Diva, Repro, Zebra, Serum, Dune, Pigments, Massive, SynthMaster, Avenger. What synth should I buy next?"
I agree with @yug, trying a new app every week is fun/addictive but less productive.
Lately I’m considering if my next buy will be a iPad Pro or MacBook Air.
I mainly use Gadget on iPad, which has been unreasonable on cpu/battery for years now.
Reading about how Gadget on a M1 iPad is doing similar (or worse?)…
If I’m going MB Air I don’t think I’d combine it with iPad.
That guy is simply a collector, nothing wrong with that.
So the right answer is probably "since you're not actually using them, just buy whichever catches your attention"
As a scratchpad for musical ideas. I've got the same plugins on my iPad that I do on my MacBook Air.
http://ju-x.com/hostingau.html
Hosting is free, small footprint, and hosts AUv3. It isn't the best for complex stuff. It has crashed a few times. But if I loopback my system audio so I can add an EQ to Spotify, then it works well. Also, for testing new synths or effects.
Yeah, this is a decent little light weight AU host that is good for testing. I haven't ever had it crash, but I don't think I've ever used it on the M1. I have it on my main dev machine which is an older iMac and it works well there.
Which plugins do you use? Can they share presets?
I'm considering the combo also because of cpu issues otherwise I'd stay on iOS. I'm not going back to desktop to push a mouse around.
LK iPad and Ableton are made for each other. There's your connectivity and midi sorted.
The launchpad is also primarily an Ableton controller.
Synthmaster, DRC cross platform.
Omnisphere and Hive are the two synths that I miss the most since moving to iOS.
Nothing beats Ableton for working with audio loops and Ableton's simpler is awesome for simple sample based instruments.
Ableton's drum racks are great for drums and percussion and can work well with launchpad. XO is my pick for drums as a vst. So fun to use.
There's a world of free devices to spice things up and some of the new gravity-based meaty devices in Ableton live 11 look like loads of fun.
The new iPads Pro have a very powerful CPU. The problem seems to be the software and iPadOS. It just can’t utilize the power of the hardware. As written in my initial post, I find the performance quite underwhelming compared to a MacBook Air although the CPU is the same.
With the mouse I slightly disagree. Sound design and moving around virtual assets, buttons, faders and knobs on the screen is great by touch. But for me working with a piano roll editor does not really work well - even with a pencil.
Good point. I think I need to test drive this combo as well. I‘m testing a Live 10 light that came bundled with my Launchpad. But honestly I’m also really impressed by Logic remote. I installed the Logic Pro trial on my work laptop. It’s really cool. With Logic remote on the iPad you can control most important things by touch then: tracks, mixer, live loops and even the new step sequencer.
So far I’m a bit in favour of Logic. The live loops really works great and for now I don’t see anything for looping that Live can do that Logic can not, but I’m a rookie… I find the integration between live loops and linear really good - my gut feeling is that it has even an edge over Ableton in this regard. A big plus for me is also that Logic supports AUv3 and hopefully more and more of my iPad AUs will be working with Logic. Who knows what are Apple‘s plans for a further integration of the iPad with Logic, remember the rumor of Prosser… I mean he said ‚within one year‘.
On the other hand Ableton has got Max4Live which seems to be a whole universe of extensions. So many artists use Live and there are many more tutorials and templates available.
@krassmann I am a long time Ableton user and not a Logic user. I just watched a Logic Live looping video to see what its all about. I didnt see anything there I wasnt able to do in Ableton 15 years ago. However, Logic does seem to have all the basics covered and it sounds like the dedicated Logic remote is ok too. So, on this point I wouldnt say Logic has an edge but I’d say that it does seem like both applications are covering that base. The AUV3 compatibility seems to be a bigger issue. I have all the vst’s I would want to use already from earlier times.
Worthy mentioning is the Live runs on M1 macs using rosetta and is not natively compatible at this point. Seems to work fine but that would be something that would stop me from jumping in to an M1 macbook right now. So, Logic would have an edge on that front.
People can get pretty fanatical about their DAW of choice. I think the better thing is to choose one and make it work for you. I think I’m a bit stuck in my ways to go down the Logic route now but I can see you have a decent case for going that way. Keep us posted with developments. I’m interested to here how things progress.
@soundtemple never change a running system
That's my advantage now. I had a history with Cubase but that was 20 years ago. I came back to music production since I bought an iPad and my kids grew up so I have time for hobby again. Anyway this gives me a fresh start on the desktop world as I am not biased. I keep posting here new developments during my journey that are worth sharing.
At the Moment in our tiny flat i just have to concentrate on the iPad and a few Hardware Synth.
In about 2 years with more Space i also want to expand with a MacMini and a hybrid set.
Using Cubasis Right now and playing with ableton on an old notebook/MacBook.
When expanding i also want to use all the Auv3 Apps in Future. Still try to Figure out the best combinations with i connectivity, A&H xone 96, retrokits rk06, logic, Bitwig, ableton...
Thanks for starting the discussion. Will try to Share some experiences as well.
@krassmann Had a thought this morning about my experiences with iPad CPU. In your OP you had a modest project using 30-35% DSP. Just wondering if you actually tried duplicating tracks to see what happens to DSP. In other threads people explained to me about core usage and how they kick in once required. So, the DSP can be a bit misleading. I've no idea how that actually works but I can say that I have experienced that on my iPad Pro.
For example one lone instance of LK with 8 empty midi clips and 8 tracks will get the DSP meter in AUM up to 24%!! However, if I add 10 more AUV3 instrument tracks with ProQ3's. 10 midi generators and a master track with L2 and two return tracks with FFReverb and delay, the DSP only gets to 45%.
I'd be interested to hear what it actually takes to max out the DSP / CPU on your M1 iPad Pro 16 GB 1 TB.
I did some tracking of threading and CPU usage when I got my M1 iPad with 8GB using the Instruments app from Xcode. This lets you track all the cores and threads running on the device. I traced with various hosts and AU's and IAA apps. One thing to note is that I don't have Cubasis 3, so I couldn't see what they are doing with their new thread usage.
The first notable thing is that almost nothing runs on the performance cores except the real-time audio threads. Even the audio threads usually sit on the efficiency cores while waiting and blocked.
There are way more real-time audio threads running around than you might expect. But, in most hosts I tested, the threads still end up being run sequentially because of the way the work is scheduled. GarageBand is a bit of an exception because it seems to be using two RT threads, one out to the audio IO and one for the processing. I can't be sure of that. I'm just guessing by the naming.
The real-time threads never run on the efficiency core even in the lightest of loads.
Because of the way everything is flying around and being moved core-to-core and the interrupts being handled on the efficiency cores, the thing of measuring DSP performance by how much of the computation window is being used is probably less useful than ever. The OS seems to be adapting the scheduling all the time to maximize the efficiency and it is all fine as long as the host and AU's are running in the allotted window.
Oh, AU's have a 1.6 GB memory limit on the 8GB Pro.
The limitation on CPU utilization mostly comes down to the hosts right now. But, like I noted above, I don't have Cubasis 3 to test. It might be able to push things much harder and it just needs a bit of tuning in how it does it.
Also, these were quick early tests on the stock OS. I haven't moved to any of the betas on that iPad yet.
@NeonSilicon Interesting info. Thanks for sharing.
As an aside I just tried out IDAM which was mentioned earlier in this thread. I hadn't used it before but its super easy to setup and in a couple of minutes I was routing audio and midi from AUM to Ableton.
Seeing as an Macbook Air is not much more than an M1 iPad with similar specs I am thinking about keeping my older iPad pro for midi generation and sending midi to Ableton (on a new Macbook Air) to my favourite vst's. Best of both worlds.
I personally can’t get into Logic, it’s just not intuitive to me like Ableton.
Last year I got the M1 mini and got back into desktop production but to be honest I am happier with Drambo on my iPad most of the time. 🤷🏻♂️
I use both Ableton Live and Logic on a 2012 iMac. And own a iPad Pro 10.5 (2017)
Right now I’m all Live with the launchpad pro. For me the LPP just didn’t gell with Logic as much. With Live it’s absolutely seamless workflow. I love session view and never use the regular arrangement timeline. If you are more of a linear timeline person then it’s Logic all the way.
Live can be expensive tho compared. I would recommend both but maybe start with Logic. Especially on a M1 right now.
On iPad I just export all audio unless it has a special Ableton export like in Gadget.
Interesting, my impression is that Logic‘s new live loops is on par with Ableton‘s session view. I just find this 90 degrees turn of the LP kind of odd, though. But I’m just scratching the surface right now.
@soundtemple and @NeonSilicon what would you say would be a good real world benchmark? I mean like the one I linked to in my OP. Let‘s say a track with DRC, Bleass delay, TB reverb, TB EQ, TB compressor (sorry, I have no Fab Filter) and then I try to max out my iPad by cloning this track. Or is DRC to heavy weight? Other proposals for a benchmark track? I think it should be a popular ‚work horse synth‘.
I can try this with Cubasis, Zenbeats and AUM. It’s a pity that Steinberg hasn’t fixed the multi core rendering for the M1 yet. AFAIK, it’s Lars recommendation to turn it off. Anyway the DSP meter shows higher values when it‘s turned on.
BTW, I already exchanged my iPad. I returned my 1TB model and bought a 256GB - that saved my 700 Euro which will be the base for my MacBook Air.