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What’s your local app store return policies?
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On paper, it could. What I've read is the developer receives the purchase amount minus Apple's commission, but is liable for the full purchase price if the app is refunded.
After several years of this coming up from time to time, I don't recall a developer ever confirming that this has happened in actuality, and I can recall some mentions that they've not had that happen. I suppose either way it's less of an issue now that the Apple commission has been lowered from 30% to 15% for virtually all developers of these types of apps.
It's a cloudy issue.
Any time you get a refund, that comes out of the developer’s pocket (as long as they’ve already been paid).
That much is clear. It's whether or not they lose the sale price - Apple commission, or whether they eat that. The wording of the agreement is they eat it, but whether or not that actually happens isn't clear.
Technically, for a $10 app they would receive $8.50, but would be charged $10 for the refund.
Yes, they eat it.
According to a developer who has sold apps on the App Store since 2008:
https://news.slashdot.org/story/20/07/29/2144256/apple-does-not-keep-the-30-commission-on-a-refund-update
To put this to rest, does anyone have a link to the terms?
I'd like to see where 'Apple reserves the right to keep their 30/15%, or the full purchase price if it's refunded.'
Not according to comments I've read from more than one developer saying they've never had this happen. It's inconclusive whether this actually happens if you ask me, but maybe you have access to info that I don't.
When I had a developer account, I understood the developer was financially liable for refunds. Maybe this policy has changed.
@ehehehe I believe it was two weeks in the UK but I think that changed when we left the EU.
I didn't know it was different from country to country. For me, refund policy has been totally inconsistent, unpredictable and the opposite of transparent.
In the US, when requesting a refund at at this link, usually the system will automatically reject the request within seconds of making the request. Of the three or four broken apps that I've requested a refund for, all refund requests were 'auto-rejected' and I had to use this link to contact a human, and explain the problem with the app, similar to giving a technical testimony in a courtroom.
The developer agreement is at https://developer.apple.com/support/downloads/terms/schedules/Schedule-2-and-3-20210607-English.pdf
Section 6.3 is the one I think you are looking for.
The general page for agreements is here: https://developer.apple.com/support/terms/
I have vague recollections of there being some kind of sanction imposed on serial refunders, can anyone confirm this or is it another myth (that I may have just made up)?
I’m in USA for context. Our consumer protection is very limited. Particular states may have better protection than the USA on a whole. I know for example my Apple Care + on my Mac tells in the terms that if I’m not happy with the options Apple provides to contact Oregon Consumer Protection Agency. Some states have reasonable options. Most states have no real option for local consumer protection laws.
With that being said, I have never had a single purchase denied a refund when I asked. I have asked very few times. 3 apps. One didn’t work as AUv3 on my specific iPad, the other had a broken interface, and the third was from a reputable developer and I didn’t think twice about buying only to find there was no MIDI. There is still no MIDI on this app. They figured they don’t care and I’m done with this developer. They are a well loved developer. I don’t care if they lost revenue over that, but I’m so rarely doing refunds.
This is the worst example. I also had Apple Arcade trial and then figured I’d do Apple One and extend it another month, since it included Apple Arcade and I would get Music back again for a free month. I really wasn’t even using Apple Arcade very much, but had one game and wanted to finish it. Well, no they charged me for Apple Arcade. I contacted chat and they were telling me that they wouldn’t want to interfere with the services I was getting with Apple One trial and that if I canceled it I would loose the arcade feature that is a part of Apple One if I canceled the separate Apple Arcade subscription. So, they are clearly linked as far as availability for the trail, but not as far as them charging you they will charge you twice. Then I got them to cancel that, then my Mac started giving me pop ups about Apple Arcade free trial and I clicked it. I recorded the interaction and after clicking yes to get it free, it charged me immediately. It never had a price said it was free. I immediately went to reportaproblem.apple.com and they approved it. I advised them I had photo evidence of the incident.
As stated, I have never had a denial of refund.
I’ve heard some people had things like Apple Music, Apple TV, etc and they were paying for these things and also paying for Apple One at the same for the same services and Apple refused to refund in this circumstance that they were paying for the same service twice. They said it was expected and in their terms and conditions.
All member states of the EU have this rule:
Thank you! That's full of legalese, will have a friend with legal experience decipher it.
Everyone would benefit if Apple implemented a trial-period, but maybe that's the definition of a subscription service.
Heard of that with Amazon, but not with Apple, yet?
My brother's wife did this, for months...
...and that's exactly what Apple told my brother when he asked for a refund on one of the services. He leveraged his corporate account with Apple to fix it, which is the kind of shit we have to do in the US to fix things. Or lawyers.
@lasselu said:
I don’t understand why consumers don’t have this right in any country in the world, especially in case of software. It’s not a physical product, just 0’s and 1’s in a datacenter. To deliver sw to the customers requires zero logistics, packaging, etc. it can be replicated infinite times without direct cost.
A certain period for the withdrawal is absolutely reasonable in case of a product you can’t try before you buy.
I don’t know why some governments do not force companies to implement such return policy.
Germany. EU. Refund within 14 days without questions.
What I actually find weird is that after refund the app remains on the device. It just does not receive any updates any more. This allows quite some abuse. Generally this EU law for online shopping is very consumer friendly but I know that some people abuse it. I heard of people ordering a 3000 EUR projector from Amazon, use it to watch the football final and then refund it. Another trick is to order an expensive Whiskey at Amazon and instantly trigger refund after delivery as ‘accidental wrong choice’. Usually Amazon Germany refunds all food and beverages without prior return - you can simply keep it. But honestly, I strongly dislike such abuse as this might kill consumer friendly laws.
Correct...
This developer can confirm it has happened. And it seems to be happening more frequently, or at least, it is to me.
So yeah, basically you can have periods where an app is showing negative proceeds. It's ever so slightly discouraging... And...
If you want a definition of adding insult to (financial) injury, how about this sequence of events...
It's a funny old game.