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Automate AUV3's in Cubasis ?!?!
is this possible? thinking of grabbing it on the sale, but dont really need it for much else other than a simple way to automate filter sweeps, FX etc
Comments
Yes, just enable W in the AUv3 plug-in window during playback and tweak the knobs to record automation, switch to R to playback the automation.
Both Cubasis 2 & 3 seem to be on sale at the moment…
Maybe it’s just a ’Fall Sale’ or maybe there’s an update on the horizon
awesome. great to hear. thanks guys!
If automation of AUv3 effects or instruments is your main use of Cubasis 3, you will be better buy any other DAW. Or a more accurate answer will be, it depends of what AUv3 effects you’re trying to automate.
Because Cubasis 3 has a big problem regarding automation: the AUv3 parameters are not exposed in a list. To make appear a parameter in the automation list, you need to previously activate the R button, activate the transport in the song, and then manually move the knob/fader in the AUv3 unit.
The problem is, a lot of AUv3 units will not detect the movement, so the parameters will not be registered in the automation list.
And if you complain to Steinberg they will say that it’s a problem of the AUv3 manufacturers and that they need to adapt this to Cubasis 3, bullshit.
Because for example, in Audio Evolution Mobile Studio, you have a complete list of the AUv3 parameters in the automation section. So even in those parameters that can’t be automated by moving the knobs in real time, you at least have the option of manually drawing the automation in a timeline. The same thing with AUM, in which every parameter is exposed, and they can be automated using something like Atom Piano Roll 2.
With some AUv3 effects such as Fractal Bits, if they have an internal midi learn function, you can try to automate the parameters using the Cubasis 3 MIDI editor, drawing some lines in an empty CC. But it’s incredibly time consuming. And in others instruments like SKIIID, simply, there is no way of automating the CC parameters in Cubasis 3.
They have historically always had a sale at the end of August and it usually lasts through till the first week of September (this is generally for both Steinberg iOS and desktop products). And wherever possible Steinberg link their yard sales to product updates as that get’s more social media buzz so you never know.
Hi @Pynchon,
Actually, Cubasis fully supports automation for the most parts of the app, as well as Audio Unit plug-ins.
Simply tap the Write button, start the playback and move the desired controls to record automation. It‘s easy as this…
Plus, the app comes with a dedicated automation editor for editing and finetuning previously recorded automations, or to create new automation data from scratch.
Sorry, but did not get your point here at all…
Best,
Lars
Automation is the best part of CB3 IMO, and is unrivaled on iOS. Works flawlessly here on all my numerous AUV3. That can be annoying for some users who want to edit automation first to not have a list. For my workflow, being able to automate via GUI knobs without needing to do any routing/assignation is hand downs the best!! Still possible to edit data after capturing those human movements (this inject life to sounds) via moving graphic knobs.
For the Cubasis built-in effects there is a list with available parameters and the same could be done for AUv3's...
...but apparently a choice was made to only expose parameters with automation recorded with W enabled.
So when do we actually get the option to just pick an AUv3 parameter from a list and draw some lines/curves to automate the selected parameter? (Some AUv3's do not expose all available parameters in their UI thus it's impossible to automate them in Cubasis since there's no UI element to touch when W is enabled).
Cubasis is what it is...
...and most of the time it works as expected
Cheers!
I vouch for CB3 AUv3 automation capabilities. IMHO the best for an iPhone DAW.
Hi @LFS - I don’t own Cubasis yet but I’m interested. Is @Pynchon ’s point correct that if a parameter does not have a corresponding knob/fader then it cannot be automated?
Thx
EDIT - Ignore this post - I had another play with this example this morning, and you can move an adjacent point horizontally on top of another automation point to create a vertical step effect. I'm sure I couldn't get it to do that yesterday... Must have been user error, sorry!
Original Post (problem solved)
@LFS Whilst you're here and we're discussing automation, I wonder if you could answer a query I have on Cubasis automation please?
If I record in automation by tweaking an AUv3 parameter, then hit 'REDUCE' to downsample the data, I quite often get a vertically stepped graph as shown in the screenshot below (just created this now as an example, with filter cut-off). The filter cut-off value jumps IMMEDIATELY from 100% to 0% on beat 2 of the bar and then smoothly moves to all the other values in the bar following the green line.
My question is, how do I replicate that immediate vertical jump myself? (very useful for gate effects). If I move an automation point horizontally to create the step, it overwrites the value at the new position. Setting the automation resolution very small and moving the points very close, is kind of a workaround, but can I create exactly what I see here in the screenshot?
I'm coming to Cubasis from FL Studio, where you right click on the following automation point and chose from a pop up menu whether you want a smooth graph, or stepped graph (amongst other options), but I can't seem to find a similar option here? (Apologies if this is already a simple operation, I just can't seem to find the solution!)
Automation editor still needs some polishing - a few items from my 100+ Cubasis Bugs/Enhancements list -
More -
https://forums.steinberg.net/t/make-producing-music-easier-100-issues-suggestions/156430
No. @LFS , in Cubasis 3 you can’t automate the parameters in most of the AUv3 plugins, due to these not been exposed until you try to move them… because not all the parameters that can be automated have the option to record the movement.
This is a serious flaw of Cubasis 3 that can be easily solved by simply showing all the parameters exposed in a list.
An example, this is SKIIID in Cubasis 3.
This picture shows all the parameters that can be automated in the rest of DAWs, with the exception of Cubasis 3: if you try to move any of the faders while the RW buttons are activated and the transport is active, none of these movements will be recorded.
And here is SKIIID in Audio Evolution Mobile Studio, the automation list:
Here is AUM, the parameters that can be automated (with tools such as Rozeta LFO, Atom Piano Roll 2):
SKIIID is only an example, Fractal Bits have this same problem. Without the internal MIDI learn function of Fractal Bits, it’s impossible to automate anything in Cubasis 3. Because it will not register the movement of the parameters.
Audio Evolution Mobile Studio solved this by including two types of automations. A touch automation, like the one in Cubasis 3, in which you can move the controls in real time. But because not all the AUv3 plugins are compatible with this, they have also included the option to record automation points.
Cubasis 3 also has the option to draw the parameters, but due to them not appearing in the list until you manually move a parameter, it’s completely ineffective.
So I will say this loud and clear again: Cubasis 3 don’t let you automate parameters in most of the AUv3 plugins, due to this stupid design decision of not exposing the parameters.
wow a heated topic on audiobus forum, who could have guessed 😁
I took the plunge and like it already. My main workflow in the past has consisted of AUM - Perform some automation live using my akai midimix - Record Stems - Bounce to Ableton for automation / Final Master.
Looking forward to being able to fully finalize and master some projects from AUM on the go now.
Harsh and rude. Learn your grammar before you call something/someone stupid.
I've honestly haven't experienced this issue with any of the plugins I have, it seems odd to me to assert that this is the case for most of them
I’m sorry if my tone sounded harsh, this was not my intention and I apologize.
English is not my native language, so I’m also apologize for any grammar mistake.
All of that said, after an entire week fighting against this subject of automation (and other limitations in Cubasis 3), it’s frustrating when it comes someone and say that you’re wrong, and a problem that you have documented well enough is nonexistent.
In the way that is currently designed Cubasis 3 not exposing a list of AUv3 parameters, if the AUv3 plugin is not compatible with touch automation, simply, you’re out of luck, and you can’t draw automation points, contrary to other DAWs.
And it’s fine, Cubasis 3 is doing a lot of other great things in a brilliant way, like sidechaining. And probably, it’s currently the most reliable DAW in iOS, specially if you learn how to compensate its limitations with other external tools.
But if someone ask about automation, it’s ethical to describe the current limitations of the Cubasis 3 tools. Without trying to sell the opposite.
BTW @Pynchon, @LFS is the dev of Cubasis…
@Pynchon thank you for sharing the details, though. That’s important info for me 👍
One thing to conside about the Cubasis approach to automation is that it mirrors that in many desktop DAW’s. A list of automatable parameters is fine when your dealing with a simple sound source but advanced plugin instruments can have a multitude of automatible parameters, so you end up being thankful that your automation edit view only contains the parameters you actually want to automate.
Historically this approach to automation came about as plugins had a limited number of parameters that could be seen by the DAW and essential parameters could get cut off. As I understand things this isn’t so much of an issue these days. But a plugin with 100s of automatable parameters the are published at all times adds a significant processing overhead, so there’s that to consider too.
I've edited my comment above, but just to set the record straight, you can move one automation point horizontally on top of another to create the desired step effect as shown in this updated screenshot: (not sure why I couldn't get this to work previously!)
In for example Logic you're free to create an automation lane for any available parameter, no need to 'record first' and only those lanes that are either added by the user or recorded will show up.
It doesn't show all 'empty' lanes only those parameters that I choose to expose but I have access to all the parameters if needed without having to record first.
The Cubasis 3 approach is 50% there as It shows the 'recorded' automation but there is no fricking way to manually add an automation lane for an AUv3 parameter without 'recording' and if the parameter can not be 'recorded' it simply can NOT be automated in Cubasis 3.
The point here is not to clutter the Cubasis 3 UI with all parameters visible at once but rather allow the user to create a lane for a selected parameter.
Cheers!
Trying to be constructive, there is still a solution for some of the AUv3 plugins that can’t be recorded, @samu, if they have an internal MIDI learn function.
If you double tap on a MIDI clip, in the MIDI edition section that will appear below the screen, you can see a selector pointing to Velocity.
If you click in Velocity, a list will appear. Simply, select a CC that is not assigned.
Draw some automation.
Push the transport button, and then activate the MIDI learn function inside the plugin. It will detect the movement of the CC parameter, and it will be assigned. So now, you can automate this.
Maybe I have a terrible luck, but I started my first serious project in Cubasis 3, trying to translate an AUM session. I started with the percussion tracks that were using SKIIID and Fractal Bits. Trying to automate the parameters I discovered this design flaw, none of the two instruments will let me to record the automation. So in my case, it wasn’t most of them, it was all of them
Now, doing some testings with other AUv3 instruments, I see that the situation is not as terrible, and I had bad luck.
But as @Samu as described much better than me, this can have a fix to make the 100% of the AUv3 plugins work correctly.
For me the automation of CB3 is okay as long as you can live with being limited to the subset of parameters you can record from using the AU‘s UI. What I find more severe is that you can‘t Midi learn AUs apart from the Steinberg plugins. I like to use a Midi controller to record automation and if an AU has no native Midi learn (e.g. flowtones) you are out of luck. Moreover CB3 seems to ignore certain CCs and I had would have to change the CC mappings of my Midi controller and Midi learn my synths again. I would really like an improvement here in the next release. If you record performances it is a severe drawback.
I well aware of that but why the need to use Midi CC when the host should handle it right?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i60hpp5nx0i1ipq/dramboauto.mp4?dl=0
(That's short clip in Drambo where I'm using an LFO to modulate the Transpose AUv3 parameter and P-Lock for Lo-Fi AUv3 paramter, the knobs AUv3 parameter is mapped in the Plug-In UI using the Map function).
Cheers!
@samu I hear you on the Logic front. I’m an Ableton user and it uses the Cubasis methodology in Arrangement view (but it doesn’t suffer the issue of plugin knob tweaking not registering apart from in rare cases like with Kontakt way you have to publish your parameters before Ableton will see them). Ableton is very similar to Drambo with regards to Session Clip automation. Ableton was the really the place where the whole idea of P’locs came from in the first place. Elektron transfered that idea into the ace hardware performance setup we all know and love.
Apologies for switching the subject to Atom 2 for a moment. I’m really hoping that the long wanted and needed automation feature in Atom 2 follows the Session Clip automation blueprint. Considering the whole clip launching workflow in Atom 2, Session Clip automation makes an awful lot of sense. Although I think it will still need some form of master timeline for longer automations seeing as it’s commonplace to e.g. take a 4 bar clip and modulate automations over 32+ bars. It will be really interesting to see how @blueveek approaches the need to automate short clips over extended periods seeing as there’s no global timeline. Obviously Atom isn’t a DAW, but I can still see the need for a some kind of global automation lane that can communicate with all Atom instances stricty for the purpose of automations.
Anyway back on Cubasis 3. I rarely find instances where automation is problomatic but agree that the Logic approach will be welcomed with a warm embrace. As @samu says, we’re 50% of the way there, might as well finish the job!
I have a Midi file imported into Cubasis 3 that was exported from another app and it contains automation as CCs. Now I want to use this Midi data for other AU synths than it was recorded with and therefore I need to remap the recorded CCs. I think there could be two ways.
a) Midi learn the AU to this CC or use a MidiFX processor to map it on the fly. StreamByter, Mozaic etc.
b) Map the recorded CCs to a Cubasis automation
Option a works when the AU supports Midi learn but is there any chance for option b?
Hi I’d like to revive this thread and second @Samu and @Pynchon ’s request to have a list of Auv3 attributes to be automated in addition to the current functionality. With Pure Acid, for example, in Drambo I can automate bass or drums on and off because that’s a listed parameter. There is no Ui in Pure Acid I can automate in Cubasis to make this happen.
Please help— there may be some criticism of the tone above (which I just read as passion) but I feel the point and request should not be dismissed as I’m hitting the limitation.