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Looking for a good monitor solution for live performance for a keyboard with Ipad Pro
Hey, im trying to find best way to hear my keyboard when playing with my band, so i found this headphone splitter which i connect to the ipad headphone output, and i get two inputs from the splitter, 1 goes to the pa, and the other one could go to a bass amp (fender rumble) , to use as a monitor (my pa output monitors are already used by the band), but also i was considering to use headphone buds (only i would use it in 1 ear) , but im afraid the the headphone output signal maybe is insuficient for live (you know to much volume in stage) do i need a headphone amp to amplify the signal, or theres some buds in the market that will sound loud connected to an ipad splitter?
About the bass amp solution , what do you think? i've heard good things about using the fender rumble as a keyboard amp, do you think the signal that comes from the headphone splitter to the bass amp will be ok.
Thanks for your help
Comments
Get a zoom U24 interface. Other than acquiring better sound quality and midi io you will be able to monitor your playing through output 3/4.
As for the amp you’re better off using a pa speaker with a 15” woofer or a keyboard amp. The problem with bass amps is that even the full range ones don’t have enough high frequency range to cover what’s coming out of your iPad.
I used to have two Roland bass amps with high frequency horn and it didn’t sound great when I used them for playing synths or keys. They just sounded dull, without much brightness/presence. It is extra presence that will let you cut through the mix because most of the other instruments are likely to be occupying the rest of the frequency spectrum.
Thanks for your response Supadom , much appreciated...
Looks nice the zoom U24, so if i buy this interface, i could power it with the apple lighning adapter isn't it? and i would need to connect my midi controller to the the midi in interface.
I use keystage as my main midi software to manage my controller and audiounits. I understand the midi signal would come from the audio interface through the ipad no problem with this setup?
About the monitoring.... I could connect as you say any active monitor or amp to the interface outputs, and if i decide to use in ear monitors, i understand the headphone output is amplified and has much better output than an ipad?
Last thing, if i decide to buy this interface, may as well put my backing vocals as input in the interface. So if want to manage this inside my ipad i suppose i will need another app apart from keystage which only manage midi signals, im thinking AUM would be good for this setup? I think AUM can manage Audio Signals and the output from keystage...
You can also power the unit with two AA batteries. But quite honestly you’d be taking a risk, as in my experience the 4-hour estimated battery life is overstated. Safer to use a power brick or plug the unit into the wall (via charger).
I find that the headphone output drives my 36-ohm KRK’s far better than my 2017 iPad. The problem with headphone monitoring is you won’t get a band mix, just your own instrument/vocal.
Have you considered a DI box with throughput? The main outputs go to the PA and the Thru goes to your speaker. We play in a large(ish) auditorium and my 12-inch Yamaha PA speaker is sufficient for monitoring. I’ve also once experimented with going through the bass player’s cab and it sounded fantastic!
I’m having problems with my Zoom which has already been replaced under warranty. Thinking of going with the Yamaha AG06 which is an audio interface/analogue mixer hybrid.
Thanks for your help OnKey!
Thinking about it , the DI box is a great idea and would be a very cheap option, i've looking some models, and in a few i see a link 6.3 jack connection besides the normal input , i guess this is the throughput one... which is always unbalanced i think, not a problem cause this is the one that would go to the monitor which should be near the di box so the cable can be short so unbalance wouldnt make a difference isnt it?
I saw another di's having 2 in/out, in those i guess you can interchange the input and the throughput like you want, both do input and throughput....
This is great , you guys are giving me great solutions for my problem, and yes i will try my bass amp , maybe it'll sound killer, i use mainly vintage sounds, hammonds , electric pianos, moogs, mellotrons, so the high frequencies doesnt matter to much, besides its only the monitor, the good sound will go through the pa.
@onkey
I forgot one think... could you recomend me a good DI Box stereo for my keyboard, and with a throughput (this one mono thus it'll go to an active monitor or my bass amp)
I guess better if the di is active to boost the ipad headphone signal...
Thanks!
Edit:
I been looking a bit and The Palmer PAN 04 looks promising,but is passive box, should be a problem in my case?
I've seen the Zoom u24 main output is unbalanced, i checked another classic interface Focusrite Scarlet 2i4 and the output in this one is balanced. could this be a problem , the stereo channels in my behringuer pa are unbalanced after checking the manual. so i suppose theres no problem in that ,
I have u24 and u44. They both sound great through my pa and I have used it live without problems. They both work without issues. I like them because they can be powered in several ways (usb, batteries, power bank, mains) and have a lot of connectivity for a reasonably small unit. If size and powering options aren’t that important there’s several other interfaces of course.
What went wrong with your zoom @onkey ? I know @Gravitas had his replaced as well.
The mic/instrument preamp suddenly went on input 2 leaving major distortion.
I had to send it back.
I would get a radial AV2 and send one mix to your amp and one mix to the house. Another way to do this ( as someone else mentioned) would be to use a PA speaker as your monitor and get one that has thru/output and you can send that pass through to the house. The one nice thing about the DI box method is having a ground lift available, especially with electronics.
@supadom I had the the same issue as @Gravitas. Major distortion on channel 2’s input. I now get intermittent crackles in any host when an instrument is connected to the inputs.
I’ve tried changing the sample rate and buffer to no avail. I also can’t get it to work in Windows since upgrading to version 10. The Zoom U24 is otherwise a fantastic unit and it’s quite possible I’m doing something wrong. I’ll keep troubleshooting.
@nachobeltrami I’m pretty sure our church uses Radial ProD2’s which have dual inputs and throughput. I’m really not knowledgeable in this area so perhaps others can chime in. I see that they’re quite pricey too so perhaps an audio interface might provide better overall value.
Yeah, seems that way, i think ill go with the zoom u24, though seems some people here had problems with the inputs , i been scouting the net looking for issues but all people seems very happy with it, and for the monitor im looking at Alto series model 310 or 308.
The only problem is that ill be sending a mono signal from the keys into to the pa, thats not cool.
If i want to do it this way i would need 2 monitors to make it stereo. Thanks anywAys
Good idea. I’m not sure how loud your band is on stage (got a drummer?) but I’d go with 10” speaker at least so you don’t have to drive it too hard at the cost to the sound. Although you could have it very close to you, raised or something.
Chances are If you are playing smaller venues you will be running mono whether you are aware of it or not. Not always, but more often than than you think. I understand the concern though. QSC K series can run stereo (dual mono) inputs and outputs.
The best solution I’ve run across with several acts is to run an actual mixer. If you have a mixer with direct outs you are prepared to send the house either individual lines or a master mix. This also allows you to also get a return from the house to do ears if you require a full mix back to run ears either wireless or wired.
Those Roland bass amps sounded pretty bad for bass too…😂
Don’t know I only ever play reggae or dub style bass so it’s LPF all the way. Can’t complain about the amount of power and bottom end from such a small amp. I was looking at ashdown and other equivalents but unless I bought something much bigger I didn’t see much improvement when tried side by side.
Going back to the idea of sticking your iPad through a guitar or bass amp. Try running your iPad mix through tone stack or any other amp sims on iOS and you’ll see what I mean. Ideally you want hifi sound unless you’re only playing stuff like electric pianos or organs that need that signal distortion or frequency range.
Of course there’s always a possibility that everything will sound clinically clean through a pa speaker!
Ha! Yes, those Roland amps (if it’s the one I’m thinking of) pretty much had boomy bottom and not much else. They had one at my college (25 years ago now!). Still, it fits my description of my favorite brand of amp- “Provided.”
But yes, @nachobeltrami, for live keyboard and iPad, get an audio interface and a powered speaker that takes a line input.
Looking through google images I see there’s quite a few different models. I have the DB 700 and quite like the sound.
Looking through google images I see there’s quite a few different models. I have the DB 700 and quite like the sound.
Yeah, that’s much newer than the one to
which I was referring. A Google search turned this up- this is the one I remember:
https://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/used-roland-bn-100-bass-combo-amp
Either way, I’m just kidding around.
As a keyboard player in a variety of weekend bands, amplification is a hot topic in the community. Head over to Keyboard Corner, there are dozens of threads and multiple points of view.
Where there is consensus: you want a powerful, full-range amplification system, preferably in stereo. You need less firepower if your PA is giving you decent monitoring, you will need more firepower if you're doing stage sound. Even more firepower if you're playing over crashing drums and howling guitars. To do this well, you'll basically need your own PA setup.
Most people go with self-powered PA units. QSC, EV, Yamaha, etc. Powerful and flat EQ. If budget is an issue, go used. These can either go on the floor (as wedges), or preferably mounted on short poles behind your shoulders. The more expensive (>$1k) keyboard amps from Motion Sound and the big KC550 are used by some but not as popular. It gets down to preference after a point. Plan to spend at least $1k, and often more.
With a small gig where I'm doing keys sound from the stage (e.g. no FOH PA support), I will bring a pair of QSC K8.2 units and maybe a small sub if I'm doing synth bass parts. If there's decent FOH PA, I don't have to bring anything other than maybe my IEMs. FOH means "front of house", e.g. what the audience hears.
With a 3 piece rig (2 tops+sub), I can get plenty loud yet clean and deep. Being heard is not a problem. The units are small and not difficult to transport -- unlike a large keyboard amp. I can also project sound at both the audience and my bandmates, which can be harder to do with a keyboard amp.
What doesn't work for most people: guitar amps, bass amps, home stereo speakers, etc. Although some people like that colored sound for a Rhodes or Hammond. Playing a grungy B3 through a Marshall stack is a thing -- or was. Most people find if you want "that sound", it's easy enough to get with effects.
Thanks for your advise, about the amps, yeah i suposse they lack for all the tones the keys can provide, but hey i already have the amp so why not try it, ill be happy if i can get some clarity after all is only my monitor…. But problably ill get a good stage monitor…
Your setup is nice though, maybe too expensive for me.
I usually do eq to all my sounds , to fit better in the mix, (for ex the pianos you dont want all the low end will clatter with the bass) but i will try this, see how it sounds. Thanks!