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MIDI Recorder/Visualizer: testers/ideas wanted!

24

Comments

  • PoppadocrockPoppadocrock

    @OscarSouth said:

    @TonalityApp said:
    Hey all! I'm working on a little visualizer tool – think Synthesia but in reverse and real-time.

    Here's a quick demo of the base functionality:
    Bonus points if you can identify the song.

    Planned features include:

    • Transport control markers (like measure/bar lines)
    • Chord/scale detection on a user-selected region
    • Full history
    • Note velocity scale modes

    Let me know if you'd be interested in testing within the next few weeks or if you have any ideas for cool/useful features.

    I’m doing a lot of work with MIDI at the moment and have 1-2 monitors running all the time. I’d be happy to run this one and keep you updated with feedback if you’re looking for more testers.

    I can tell you in advance that quick and flexible filtering/splitting/combining/layering/visualising of multiple concurrent midi channels would be the thing that will make something like this most valuable to me. Being able to quickly switch between showing different channels in parallel lanes and combining them into one source with visual cues (different colours for different channels etc.) would be very powerful.

    I’ve also developed algorithmic logic in the past for very in depth chord naming (you can see it at https://GitHub.com/OscarSouth/theHarmonicAlgorithm) and I’d be happy to assist with implementing that if that’s useful to you.

    @TonalityApp
    Awesome.

    Yea if you could see a color coated project, with all the midi from each source in a different color that would be cool.

    I’m still a little confused about the use cases and direction of the app? A midi monitor/viewer, a
    Piano lesson app, a chord detector, etc? Not being a jerk just want to hear a little more about what you want to accomplish with the app?

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp
    edited October 2021

    @Poppadocrock said:

    Yea if you could see a color coated project, with all the midi from each source in a different color that would be cool.

    I’m still a little confused about the use cases and direction of the app? A midi monitor/viewer, a
    Piano lesson app, a chord detector, etc? Not being a jerk just want to hear a little more about what you want to accomplish with the app?

    Color-coding channels is coming soon! I'm mostly going for a MIDI monitor combined with a few analysis tools like chord/key detection and some export options. Definitely not as comprehensive as Tonality or anything, just a different plugin for different use cases. I imagine the extreme zooming abilities to be useful if you've got a lot of MIDI data coming from one or more generators and you want to make sense of it (like @OscarSouth's situation).

    This mainly came about because I noticed a lot of people use the Chord/Scale ID unit within Tonality but then minimize everything other than the live piano at the top, so there's definitely a desire to have a visual idea of what's going on with whatever MIDI they're dealing with. This is like an expanded version of that, with the added bonus of history/zooming/export and some other stuff.

  • LiquidmantisLiquidmantis
    edited October 2021

    @TonalityApp said:

    @Liquidmantis said:
    “Knock, knock”
    “Who’s there?”
    “Pianogram”

    Pianogram who?

    I love the willingness to set up the punchline! But in this case, I was just referring to this bit:

    Now the Pianogram name reveal needs to be anticipated with the Jaws b2 ostinato.

  • LiquidmantisLiquidmantis
    edited October 2021

    .

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp

    @Liquidmantis said:
    I love the willingness to set up the punchline! But in this case, I was just referring to this bit:
    Now the Pianogram name reveal needs to be anticipated with the Jaws b2 ostinato.

    :D Darn... I was looking forward to some kind of pun based on the name

  • PoppadocrockPoppadocrock

    @TonalityApp cheers. Thanks for clearing it up.

    I feel like it’s got some great potential for piano practice, piano playing, and piano lessons. I think it would be super cool if you could see the midi, and try to play the notes at the same time. I could learn all kinds of songs this way, like a guitar tab, but a midi piano tab, or whatever.

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp

    @Poppadocrock said:
    @TonalityApp cheers. Thanks for clearing it up.

    I feel like it’s got some great potential for piano practice, piano playing, and piano lessons. I think it would be super cool if you could see the midi, and try to play the notes at the same time. I could learn all kinds of songs this way, like a guitar tab, but a midi piano tab, or whatever.

    Agreed! I just want to focus on other functionality at the moment and wish I had more time. We can discuss this more in the future once I complete the other features.

  • sharifkerbagesharifkerbage

    Interesting, I'd love to join the beta.
    About the name.. how about "Pianoramic" ?

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp

    @sharifkerbage said:
    Interesting, I'd love to join the beta.

    PM me your email and I'll add you to TestFlight!

    About the name.. how about "Pianoramic" ?

    Ooh I kinda like this one too... we'll see

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp

    @OscarSouth In terms of displaying multiple channels on separate, parallel tracks, how would you feel about running multiple instances rather than splitting a single instance's display window? I'm thinking there will be a setting to choose the displayed channels (omni vs any combination of 1 through 16) which can be saved to the AU's state as a preset within AUM. There will also be a setting for the range of MIDI notes displayed. Then you could use AUM's MIDI control to quickly toggle which instances are visible or even which presets/layouts are loaded, creating a very similar effect to what I think you were requesting earlier.

    I'm focusing on making this as light on the CPU as possible, so running a ton of instances like that shouldn't be an issue. It would also give more flexibility since you can rearrange the windows however you like and I wouldn't have to worry about making something like 5+ parallel tracks fit in a tiny AU window.

  • rs2000rs2000
    edited October 2021

    @TonalityApp said:
    @OscarSouth In terms of displaying multiple channels on separate, parallel tracks, how would you feel about running multiple instances rather than splitting a single instance's display window? I'm thinking there will be a setting to choose the displayed channels (omni vs any combination of 1 through 16) which can be saved to the AU's state as a preset within AUM. There will also be a setting for the range of MIDI notes displayed. Then you could use AUM's MIDI control to quickly toggle which instances are visible or even which presets/layouts are loaded, creating a very similar effect to what I think you were requesting earlier.

    I'm focusing on making this as light on the CPU as possible, so running a ton of instances like that shouldn't be an issue. It would also give more flexibility since you can rearrange the windows however you like and I wouldn't have to worry about making something like 5+ parallel tracks fit in a tiny AU window.

    Excellent suggestions! Not sure how often I would use multiple windows.
    An on-board vertically stacked keyboards mode or just different colors on the same piano roll would likely do it for me and being able to toggle the display of ch 1..16 sounds like a great function. If the toggle switches somehow indicate which track has note data and which track has currently played notes, I think that would help both with selecting channels to show and give some quick information about incoming or stored MIDI notes on channels.

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp

    @rs2000 said:
    If the toggle switches somehow indicate which track has note data and which track has currently played notes, I think that would help both with selecting channels to show and give some quick information about incoming or stored MIDI notes on channels.

    Very good idea - I’m thinking the channel indicators could flash according to the incoming data even if you don’t have them selected for the current window. Did you get the beta invite by the way?

  • rs2000rs2000

    @TonalityApp said:

    @rs2000 said:
    If the toggle switches somehow indicate which track has note data and which track has currently played notes, I think that would help both with selecting channels to show and give some quick information about incoming or stored MIDI notes on channels.

    Very good idea - I’m thinking the channel indicators could flash according to the incoming data even if you don’t have them selected for the current window. Did you get the beta invite by the way?

    Exactly! Yes, just installed it, thanks.

  • OscarSouthOscarSouth

    @TonalityApp said:
    @OscarSouth In terms of displaying multiple channels on separate, parallel tracks, how would you feel about running multiple instances rather than splitting a single instance's display window? I'm thinking there will be a setting to choose the displayed channels (omni vs any combination of 1 through 16) which can be saved to the AU's state as a preset within AUM. There will also be a setting for the range of MIDI notes displayed. Then you could use AUM's MIDI control to quickly toggle which instances are visible or even which presets/layouts are loaded, creating a very similar effect to what I think you were requesting earlier.

    I'm focusing on making this as light on the CPU as possible, so running a ton of instances like that shouldn't be an issue. It would also give more flexibility since you can rearrange the windows however you like and I wouldn't have to worry about making something like 5+ parallel tracks fit in a tiny AU window.

    I probably wouldn’t use it that way personally in all honestly — iPad screens are small in general, opening and organising many AU instances isn’t a good user experience and I usually use AudioBus3 or BeatMaker3 over AUM as both of those has better MIDI synch ability — both those also have more convenient options for seeing what’s going on (there’s a MIDI plug-in for AB3 that can show MIDI monitors for every channel in lanes on one page and seeing which pads are flashing in channel mode in BM3 is often enough info).

    Obviously the piano roll does show a lot more information, but I have to keep a lot of information in my head at once when I work and I can’t ever imagine tweaking interfaces on the fly on a smallish touchscreen during that process.

    I probably would still throw an ‘all channels at once’ view of the AU into the MIDI stream though and flick to it sometimes between other monitoring styles, as the piano roll does provide me with some useful information that I’m not getting from other sources.

    Maybe a lighter implementation of the functionality we’re discussing would be in addition to the different display colours for different channels, to have some visual cue for how many notes are layered in one location? This in addition to being able to rapidly jump in and out of individual channel/combination views would probably do 90% of what I originally proposed, and it might do that 90% better. Being able to MIDI learn the buttons to ‘solo’ channels and a double tap releasing all the solos would make it very quick to dive in and out from a general overview into specific timbres. I think that’d be a great workflow that gives most of the same level of info without the intense UI development.

  • OscarSouthOscarSouth

    @TonalityApp said:

    @rs2000 said:
    If the toggle switches somehow indicate which track has note data and which track has currently played notes, I think that would help both with selecting channels to show and give some quick information about incoming or stored MIDI notes on channels.

    Very good idea - I’m thinking the channel indicators could flash according to the incoming data even if you don’t have them selected for the current window?

    That will be a very useful touch.

  • OscarSouthOscarSouth

    @OscarSouth said:

    @TonalityApp said:
    @OscarSouth In terms of displaying multiple channels on separate, parallel tracks, how would you feel about running multiple instances rather than splitting a single instance's display window? I'm thinking there will be a setting to choose the displayed channels (omni vs any combination of 1 through 16) which can be saved to the AU's state as a preset within AUM. There will also be a setting for the range of MIDI notes displayed. Then you could use AUM's MIDI control to quickly toggle which instances are visible or even which presets/layouts are loaded, creating a very similar effect to what I think you were requesting earlier.

    I'm focusing on making this as light on the CPU as possible, so running a ton of instances like that shouldn't be an issue. It would also give more flexibility since you can rearrange the windows however you like and I wouldn't have to worry about making something like 5+ parallel tracks fit in a tiny AU window.

    I probably wouldn’t use it that way personally in all honestly — iPad screens are small in general, opening and organising many AU instances isn’t a good user experience and I usually use AudioBus3 or BeatMaker3 over AUM as both of those has better MIDI synch ability — both those also have more convenient options for seeing what’s going on (there’s a MIDI plug-in for AB3 that can show MIDI monitors for every channel in lanes on one page and seeing which pads are flashing in channel mode in BM3 is often enough info).

    Obviously the piano roll does show a lot more information, but I have to keep a lot of information in my head at once when I work and I can’t ever imagine tweaking interfaces on the fly on a smallish touchscreen during that process.

    I probably would still throw an ‘all channels at once’ view of the AU into the MIDI stream though and flick to it sometimes between other monitoring styles, as the piano roll does provide me with some useful information that I’m not getting from other sources.

    Maybe a lighter implementation of the functionality we’re discussing would be in addition to the different display colours for different channels, to have some visual cue for how many notes are layered in one location? This in addition to being able to rapidly jump in and out of individual channel/combination views would probably do 90% of what I originally proposed, and it might do that 90% better. Being able to MIDI learn the buttons to ‘solo’ channels and a double tap releasing all the solos would make it very quick to dive in and out from a general overview into specific timbres. I think that’d be a great workflow that gives most of the same level of info without the intense UI development.

    MIDI learn wouldn’t be necessary by the way — just listening for MIDI notes 36-50 on a given channel would be more than sufficient to map a pad to controller to do the job.

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp

    @OscarSouth I think this is a good compromise. I’m planning on making the channel layers slightly transparent anyway, so you can see if there’s any overlap when a lot of events occur simultaneously. The double tap gesture currently resets the time-axis zoom, but I can easily find another way to provide quick access to the “reset channels” function.

    How would you feel about AU parameters instead of MIDI note messages for quick switching? That way there’s no overlap between what you might be monitoring and the control messages. It would also give the bonus of being able to explicitly label each inside the host’s UI.

  • OscarSouthOscarSouth
    edited October 2021

    @TonalityApp said:
    @OscarSouth I think this is a good compromise. I’m planning on making the channel layers slightly transparent anyway, so you can see if there’s any overlap when a lot of events occur simultaneously. The double tap gesture currently resets the time-axis zoom, but I can easily find another way to provide quick access to the “reset channels” function.

    Oh I meant double tapping on a MIDI note that is set to filter to that channel, not the interface itself. I think on screen when the toggles are visible it'll be pretty intuitive to filter quickly how you want. Was imagining how I'd work with a standard 16 pad controller bank with it.

    @TonalityApp said:
    How would you feel about AU parameters instead of MIDI note messages for quick switching? That way there’s no overlap between what you might be monitoring and the control messages. It would also give the bonus of being able to explicitly label each inside the host’s UI.

    Oh yes that's a very good point and I think it would work fine.

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp

    @OscarSouth Ahh, yeah that’s a good idea. Sounds like a plan!

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp

    @OscarSouth Any thoughts about displaying channel and velocity information simultaneously? My ideas so far are:

    • Display channels as different colors with slight transparency and vary the transparency according to the velocity (might look confusing or difficult to tell events apart)
    • Display channels with one general color per channel but varying according to velocity (might introduce too many colors and look cluttered)
    • Add a small colored icon to each note which represents the channel (but this would be tough for very small/short events)
  • OscarSouthOscarSouth
    edited October 2021

    @TonalityApp said:
    @OscarSouth Any thoughts about displaying channel and velocity information simultaneously? My ideas so far are:

    • Display channels as different colors with slight transparency and vary the transparency according to the velocity (might look confusing or difficult to tell events apart)
    • Display channels with one general color per channel but varying according to velocity (might introduce too many colors and look cluttered)
    • Add a small colored icon to each note which represents the channel (but this would be tough for very small/short events)

    I think 1 or 3 or just only allow one at a time and make it quick to switch between them.

  • auxmuxauxmux
    edited October 2021

    I agree that option 1 would be easiest. Different colors per channel within the same window. Juggling multiple windows could get cumbersome. Typically, I'm sequencing five or six channels of midi tracks at a time. It would ideal to see how notes overlap with each other over time.

    One thought I had would be the ability to see the musical notes like sheet music above the keyboard. Not sure if that's in the scope of the app, but that would be a great learning tool and an another way to visualize the interaction of different instruments.

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp

    @auxmux said:
    I agree that option 1 would be easiest. Different colors per channel within the same window. Juggling multiple windows could get cumbersome. Typically, I'm sequencing five or six channels of midi tracks at a time. It would ideal to see how notes overlap with each other over time.

    Oh definitely – different colors per channel was always the plan. I think my earlier comment was misleading: we were just discussing the ability to have multiple parallel tracks side by side, each with the entire range of MIDI notes. In that case I still think having two windows is best.

    One thought I had would be the ability to see the musical notes like sheet music above the keyboard. Not sure if that's in the scope of the app, but that would be a great learning tool and an another way to visualize the interaction of different instruments.

    Kind of like the Grandstaff AU in Tonality?

  • auxmuxauxmux

    @TonalityApp said:

    @auxmux said:
    I agree that option 1 would be easiest. Different colors per channel within the same window. Juggling multiple windows could get cumbersome. Typically, I'm sequencing five or six channels of midi tracks at a time. It would ideal to see how notes overlap with each other over time.

    Oh definitely – different colors per channel was always the plan. I think my earlier comment was misleading: we were just discussing the ability to have multiple parallel tracks side by side, each with the entire range of MIDI notes. In that case I still think having two windows is best.

    One thought I had would be the ability to see the musical notes like sheet music above the keyboard. Not sure if that's in the scope of the app, but that would be a great learning tool and an another way to visualize the interaction of different instruments.

    Kind of like the Grandstaff AU in Tonality?

    Perfect, sounds good, re channel colors.

    Yes, exactly like Grandstaff! But in a side-scrolling / horizontal view to see the notes over time, just like the pianoroll. Oops my bad, forgot about Grandstaff. 😅

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp

    @auxmux said:
    Yes, exactly like Grandstaff! But in a side-scrolling / horizontal view to see the notes over time, just like the pianoroll. Oops my bad, forgot about Grandstaff. 😅

    Funny you should mention that: it's actually something I'm working on for the Grandstaff and which partially prompted this app :D
    The issue with the sheet music is balancing complexity - I don't want to make a full sheet music renderer (rendering correct stems, flags, and note durations when not quantizing is super complex and I've yet to see an app which does it perfectly), and it's difficult to display history with sheet music otherwise. I built a prototype which just showed all detected chords with quarter notes in the staff on a scrollable view, but the person I was making it for wasn't a big fan.

  • auxmuxauxmux

    @TonalityApp said:

    @auxmux said:
    Yes, exactly like Grandstaff! But in a side-scrolling / horizontal view to see the notes over time, just like the pianoroll. Oops my bad, forgot about Grandstaff. 😅

    Funny you should mention that: it's actually something I'm working on for the Grandstaff and which partially prompted this app :D
    The issue with the sheet music is balancing complexity - I don't want to make a full sheet music renderer (rendering correct stems, flags, and note durations when not quantizing is super complex and I've yet to see an app which does it perfectly), and it's difficult to display history with sheet music otherwise. I built a prototype which just showed all detected chords with quarter notes in the staff on a scrollable view, but the person I was making it for wasn't a big fan.

    Ah, cool! Yeah, it makes sense that something like that could get super complicated, interested to hear how that evolves. Agreed, would love to have something like that as an AU.

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp
    edited October 2021

    @OscarSouth @auxmux @rs2000
    I got pretty busy with other stuff, but finally had some time to implement a few of the things we've been talking about. Here's a quick preview!

    The main changes are:

    • Ability to view screen in horizontal mode (shown here)
    • Channel filtering with velocity sensitivity on a per-channel basis
    • Channel selector highlights currently-playing channels, even if they aren't toggled
  • auxmuxauxmux

    Ohhh, nice. Horizontal mode!

  • TonalityAppTonalityApp
    edited October 2021

    @auxmux said:
    Ohhh, nice. Horizontal mode!

    How do you feel about the piano being on the right? I know piano rolls traditionally place it on the left, but this was (I think) the best way to maintain left-to-right scrolling and low notes at the bottom of the screen without knowing future notes like a piano roll would. I guess it also reflects the complementary nature of a visualizer like this and a traditional MIDI source.

  • auxmuxauxmux

    @TonalityApp said:

    @auxmux said:
    Ohhh, nice. Horizontal mode!

    How do you feel about the piano being on the right? I know piano rolls traditionally place it on the left, but this was (I think) the best way to maintain left-to-right scrolling and low notes at the bottom of the screen without knowing future notes like a piano roll would. I guess it also reflects the complementary nature of a visualizer like this and a traditional MIDI source.

    I like it, it's different, but makes sense based on your approach. 🤘

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