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Creating a dedicated hardware-controlled iPad setup
Obviously, we can all map controls to hardware whenever we want, but has anyone found a way to have an automap function, similar to Novation/Ableton stuff or Atom2 and the Launchpads? I keep eyeing new MPCs, but it seems silly to buy one when a lot of what's in there is available on the iPad. It'd be awesome if there was a way to do bidirectional MIDI feedback and automapping in some way. I really like all the options of the iPad, but the touchscreen gets old real quick.
On my end, I have an old Novation Remote SL that I took the keybed out of and will be rehousing the controls as a dedicated iPad controller, but even with that, I still need to manually map things and there's no bidirectional feedback for MIDI .
Comments
IMO, the problem is that this requires a dev to implement the different specific requirements each supported controller. The LK app has boldly attempted this. Desktop apps either have this baked in, or provide a scripting interface that hardware makers can support with custom scripts. My Nektar LX61+ keyboard comes with a variety of such scripts. This mapping is not automatic, it's just predefined for each app/controller combo.
And bidirectional MIDI feedback is not as simple as it sounds. Different controllers have differing, inconsistent requirements for controlling their lights, rings, and encoders. So again, this is part of a custom package. I've done this in StreamByter for my Xtouch Mini controller, and it's a bit of work, including different MIDI channels for different data, and different CC#s for out vs in. And of course, I still need to adapt the script or MIDI learn for each app or app combo.
So, a general automap function is very unlikely. The best you'll get is apps like Atom 2 or LK with functionality baked in or scriptable. A host like CB3 could include such support for itself and its built-in components, but these apps tend to focus on the touch interface.
As a side note, in Audiobus you can create and save a MIDI map profile that loads automatically, but that only applies to controlling AB features.
MIDI 2.0 should finally make MIDI bidirectional easy so the plug-in/app should recognize the controller and automatically map to it. Sadly we have to wait some time before it would properly developed and become a standard.
https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/details-about-midi-2-0-midi-ci-profiles-and-property-exchange
Simple answer: We're not really there yet. MIDI control is supported quite well in quite a number of apps but bidirectional control with feedback is rare - and limited to apps like Imaginando LK, Launchpad, Atom 2, the old Arturia iSpark etc.
Groove Rider supports MIDI feedback too but only with a single controller model: The Launchpad Pro Mk3, and only feedback for pads.
@Gravitas has created quite sophisticated Launchpad support for Drambo but that's a very specific case in which the function is tightly bound to the controls.
MIDI value feedback is planned for Drambo but it's not going to happen too soon.
More from our member @seonnthaproducer:
MIDI 2.0
Agreed.
It would be tedious for the end user to remap the
functions for another controller but it is doable.
If a user has both an LP X and an LC XL then they would be good to go.
The other thing to bear in mind would the fact that
a couple of the projects are also CPU intensive.
After testing them for a few months and as long as the ipad
is connected to a constant power supply then there is no problem
otherwise the iPad only provides enough energy for approximately
an hour long set when performing.
My current project that I'm putting together is
specifically to be used as a compositional tool.
It uses an LP X, LC XL and a Korg Nanokontrol.
The LP X is specifically as a drum pad and somewhat "keyboard",
the LC XL is being used as a mixer and the Korg NanoKontrol
is to control the effects and for pattern switching.
It uses Drambo as a sophisticated midi switcher and sequencer.
Apps used.
Korg Module - piano
NeoSoul keys - Rhodes
SynthMaster 2 - synths etc
Beathawk x4 - String Ensemble, Tutti Orchestra, Brass Ensemble and Woodwinds
Effects processors
Eventide's Rotary - 1 instance
Audio Damage's Channel strip - 1 instance
Spatializer - 2 instances (assists in positioning the String and Tutti ensemble sounds)
Audio Damage's - Other Desert Cities
and finally Tonebooster's Reverb
The reason why I am working on this particular project is
because no DAW on iOS except Auria Pro provides for multitimbral midi
when instantiating an app such as a BeatHawk.
I asked about this in regards to Cubasis 3 in another thread.
Using Drambo as a midi switcher enables me to switch
between the dedicated Drambo's per multitimbral instance
of which I am using 6 for sequencing.
There are 7 Drambo instances in use.
One is the midi switcher and provides sequencing for piano, rhodes and SM2,
4 are for the Beathawks and one is for BM3 on another iPad.
The last instance of Drambo provides a workaround that
enables the user to switch patterns for all of the Drambo instances.
I'm currently testing this configuration and is actually really easy to use.
To do controllers like Ableton does (automap, feedback, etc) you need Python scripts. So apps need to support scripting. I’ve none a bunch of custom scripts for DIY controllers I’ve made for Ableton in years past. There’s even 3rd party services like Remotify that greatly simplifies the process. Could Mozaic help with this (never used it)???
It could quite possibly, I'm about to start getting deep into Mozaic.
There are some really interesting patches on patchstorage
that you could play with and also modify.
The main problem wih adding a separate translation layer is that you can neither turn knobs in the original app nor reflect new settings of a loaded preset or project to the controller LEDs.
Without native MIDI feedback, it'll always be a hacky solution.
Definitely agree. That's the situation with my StreamByter script.
I figured all of your answers were the case. I'd love to see what @Gravitas did with the Drambo stuff and LPP3 (which I just got). With iOS for music production being a somewhat niche thing, it wouldn't make sense for a company to make a dedicated hardware controller for their app.
Im just starting to get into Drambo, but doesn't it knobs and sliders send MIDI?
You can control knobs, buttons and sliders via MIDI but its controls don't send messages yet. This is future stuff.
What @Gravitas did is crafting all the necessary MIDI messages one by one. Of course you can add a knob that modulates a knob and sends a MIDI message at the same time, if you really really want it now.
Yeah…I’ve scripted entirely too many controllers and DIY teensy stuff. I’ve kinda got things down to a 95% workability. I’m trying to get away from my soldering iron and just work with existing off the shelf controllers and modifying them via translators/scripts. I usually have a button on the controller that pauses sending midi, so when the iPad and the control is out of sync due to touching the iPad, I can correct it on the controller without the value jump.
I’m just tossing around the idea of moving over to Drambo. I know midi sending was on the roadmap, just didn’t know if it was already implemented yet.
Bidirectional midi isn’t there yet, but there is a module that sends midi (also drops state on load) witch can be hacked to mimic feedback. Imo it’s all against the nature of why this stuff exists in the first place… to make life easier… no workaround will… to some degree maybe, for some it will be acceptable, for others it will be a major headache.
I approached a part of that with a script that memorizes the last value of all midi Ccs that pass through it, then dumps them back on session load. It’s useful for controllers such as the Midi Fighter Twister that have rotary displays for their encoders. It’s only useful if you only make changes from the controller. It doesn’t help at all if you switch back and forth between controller and screen.
I didn’t get around to putting it up on patchstorage yet, but here it is if anyone’s interested.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8xo8l6tfh4ozo41/Controller Feedback and Restore v0.2.mozaic?dl=0
@wim, this is the approach I’ve been taking as well. I’ve thought about putting an intermediary layer in a well, using something like lemur, so things can be controlled from the iPad and mapped/saved on a per project level without having to “re-fuck” with the controller setup so much. Really only started to do this when I was building hardware controllers.
Do wish there was far better documentation for lemur…..
I think this will work with no special treatment from Lemur.
I still debate building a couple hardware controllers again and I've done enough that I knwo what exactly I'd want in a "final" controller...but jeeze they take up too much time.
The only thing that really keeps me back is that theres only 1 of them. If im somewhere for a gig, and something happens to it, i'm kinda screwed. Whereas if something happens to a arturia beatstep, you can pick one up pretty much anywhere and the script still applies (and back in business).
I was trying to utilise Lemur for such, not great if you plan to use one iPad for everything… it will be tossed out at certain RAM point (maybe even time limit) if left in the background.
In case anyone wanted to try their hand at hardware building, I've been trying this out lately: https://www.roxxxtar.com/bmc
Just tell it what parts you have attached and it generates most of the code. Just need to tweak as needed.
I had a 2 ipad approach when I was doing that for those reasons. Also 2 ipads to distribute CPU, but thats kinda out the window with the more recent ipads. I had issues getting a mini5 to crap out under load (coming from mini2's/air2's way back then).
If 2 iPads is not an issue than a Mozaic inside a host is probably better route? It should cover all the needs, and much easier to manage on iPad alone (without desktop, Lemur iPad editor sux). Also that leaves another iPad with the host running for other useful stuff.
I’m sure you’ve considered all this, just thinking out loud.
@wim That's certainly a great thing for a template based project. Thanks for posting it!
@AlmostAnonymous The Beatstep is great, I'm using it mainly for sound design in Drambo (a typical use is adjusting FM synth parameters) too because the endless knobs are fully supported and the lack of LED rings doesn't really hurt.
@0tolerance4silence, Im doing everything in mozaic lately. Something like lemur or midiquest seems to be able to handle slight variations between projects than mozaic without a whole lot of recoding in mozaic. But I'm a coding dunce, so I ride the strugglebus in Mozaic.
Im sure youve seen my past posts about how I feel about arturia stuff, but have you seen this: https://www.untergeek.de/2014/11/taming-arturias-beatstep-sysex-codes-for-programming-via-ipad/
With some simple mozaic and layout planning, you can really 100fold the number of controls you have.
It is kinda the ideal drambo controller imho. That and the faderfox UC4 (which has midi takeover built in for other apps).
Another faderfox fan here. Got an old LC2 with joystick, 6 faders, crossfader and 4 endless dials plus lots of banks and buttons 👍🏼
Agreed.
Without feedback, it’s always a one way conversation.
What I have done in Drambo is more than
functional though it can be weighty on the CPU.
Once complete or near enough complete I leave them running for
a couple of weeks to add finishing touches and to see if they are stable and they are.
I’m designing the projects using either a buffer of 256 or 512.
The ones that involve looping or recording from external sources I keep at 256.
Don't get me wrong @Gravitas, your projects are incredible and about the best one can get without such features natively implemented in Drambo.
The "hacky" relates to the additional effort required when building something new from scratch - you can easily have more modules just for the MIDI feedback than for the actual project itself 😉
Actually, thinking about it, building a Launchpad 8 band spectrum analyzer could be fun 😄
Once agreed.
I wouldn't recommend it for the faint of heart and if patience was in short supply. 😁
I had a read of the Mozaic manual the other day.
I'm getting more coffee and I may print it out.
My respect for developers is at Zen level. 🙏🏾
Once such features are inbuilt, the users are going to have so much fun.
I simply am fascinated that some of it could be done with
the current modules themselves and the challenge was
there though I did the realise it at the time.
You've done it again.
Let me think about that one for abit. 😁
Nah, I can't figure that one out yet. 😂
The LPX doesn't respond to continuous cc messages so that's one for sysex I think.
Do any Mozaic users know how to translate continuous cc messages into sysex?
Creating the audio bands is doable in Drambo as in converting
them into separate cc messages per frequency band using filters.
So Drambo will emit cc message A and Mozaic translate
that into sysex code A that tells the LPX to change
the colour of lighting of the pad or something like that.
Wow, that's awesome concept. 🙏🏾
Deleted.
Double post.